Response to SMS's Constant Weapon Ring Complaints
- Thread starter Mystic
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Spazzo
Member
Segmint said:
Uh, what?
You just took a completly civil topic, and turned it upside-down. Was that really needed, if only to get a point across?
So you hate SMS. So? Did you really need to blow up and tell us all that?
EDIT: Damnit, didn't see his tempban. Ah well.
EDIT2: [tangent] Anybody still have the Mystic Flame Form(TM)? With the way this message board is going, I need to start (ab)using it more...[/tangent]
ST218
Member
It's just one click away. Run a search for posts with "Republican" in them by "Mystic". This wonderful piece of work is the only one that pops up.
On the subject, if SMS makes a match or CTF map without anything he finds cheap and it's shown to be quality, then we can talk.
On the subject, if SMS makes a match or CTF map without anything he finds cheap and it's shown to be quality, then we can talk.
Jman
PSO & Arad Senki addict
Here are my things I think about weapons. I don't use other weapons cept for Rails until it get to the point where I have to fight fire with Fire.
Auto Rings
Advantage:
1. Using it in bright green territory Ex. sapphire
2. No delay time
3. Faster than red rings
Disadvantage:
1. Can Block vision sometimes when you shoot to many
2. Miss use of rings if not paying attention. Them 100 rings will be gone before you know it.
Homing:
Advantage:
1. Protects your ass for you won't have to watch it every time
2. Makes opponents change there course of running
3. Better use in cramp areas
Disadvantage:
1. Slow
Bombs:
Advantage:
1. Knocks opponents back far
2. Don't have to do a direct hit
Disadvantage:
1. Slow
2. Delay time
Now for my favorite, I rather use these to fight head on instead of reds. I say these have the most disadvantages out of all rings.
Rails:
Advantage:
1. Has fastest ring shot
Disadvantage:
1. Big Delay time
2. Can't miss to much
3. Don't touch it when you have clag
4. If you don't have good aim
Auto Rings
Advantage:
1. Using it in bright green territory Ex. sapphire
2. No delay time
3. Faster than red rings
Disadvantage:
1. Can Block vision sometimes when you shoot to many
2. Miss use of rings if not paying attention. Them 100 rings will be gone before you know it.
Homing:
Advantage:
1. Protects your ass for you won't have to watch it every time
2. Makes opponents change there course of running
3. Better use in cramp areas
Disadvantage:
1. Slow
Bombs:
Advantage:
1. Knocks opponents back far
2. Don't have to do a direct hit
Disadvantage:
1. Slow
2. Delay time
Now for my favorite, I rather use these to fight head on instead of reds. I say these have the most disadvantages out of all rings.
Rails:
Advantage:
1. Has fastest ring shot
Disadvantage:
1. Big Delay time
2. Can't miss to much
3. Don't touch it when you have clag
4. If you don't have good aim
Super mystic sonic
The Golden Blur
Segmint said:
That can be taken care of. What will it be? A race? A match? A best sprite of Mystic's avatar character? I'll accept any challenge, but I'm not gonna stick months into it. And no, I don't accept CTF duels, since thats boring. If you're still planning on a little competion with me, it can be arranged in a PM.
I can't believe I didn't see this topic yet. I've read about everyone of the posts here, and the the topic is just a opinion of a opinion. If you want me to stop wining about the inbalancedness, just say that, don't make a entire new topic where you say exactly what I'm expecting you to say.
EDIT: Sorry, couldn't resist to reply to this
Mystic said:
The reason that I put it itemrespawn 10 is because otherwise you'll have players that seem to have all the rings all the time. Its unfair for those who have lost their rings and can't regain them because I always seem to have all the rings. Armagedon, invincibility, attraction and that kinda stuff makes 1 single person too powerfull. Lots of rings gives everyone the chance to be powerfull. Grabbing a armagedon shield or whatever is just luck. Grabbing rings isn't.
Second, I'm not complaining about weapon rings because I can't handle them. Better yet, I can handle them pretty darn well. But killing somebody with auto-ring and attraction shield just doesn't give you the feeling you've won. Thats like being the only SMS player in a match, while everyone else is Sonic, Knuckles, or Tails. I can assure you, I do not suck in SRB2 skills. I might not be good at it, but I certainly don't suck. Surely, some of these "pro" players such as Cueball have joined my server once to watch me play around a bit, but you can only know if I'm good or bad if you play against me yourself.
Your definition of 'fair' is twisted. See, as far as weapon rings go, hitting an enemy is hitting an enemy, regardless of what weapon ring you're using. They're all fair use. If a player can't avoid them, the player should improve, or put up. If players don't want to lose their rings, they should avoid shots. If players want to gain more rings, players should earn them, not jump on the nearest item monitor because the ITEMRESPAWN time was set too low. That's totally stupid and makes it unfair to the people who earned them and kept them. Not the other way around. Armageddon, Attraction, and Invincibility are not cheap, because all players have the exact same chance of obtaining them. They're upgrades that any intelligent player can use for an advantage. Their use is fair game.
See? Your definition of 'fair' is more of a guide for making the game easy for those who suck. Not the true definition of fair. Fair is where the game plays to benefit everyone fairly and evenly, without simplifying the game and giving inexperienced players a handicap by taking away things that good players use to their advantage. Handicaps suck. They're unfair to both the inexperienced, because it gives them the idea the game is easy, and to the experienced player, because it eliminates their earned advantage.
See? Your definition of 'fair' is more of a guide for making the game easy for those who suck. Not the true definition of fair. Fair is where the game plays to benefit everyone fairly and evenly, without simplifying the game and giving inexperienced players a handicap by taking away things that good players use to their advantage. Handicaps suck. They're unfair to both the inexperienced, because it gives them the idea the game is easy, and to the experienced player, because it eliminates their earned advantage.
Super mystic sonic said:
Duh, with a high ass (default) respawnitemtime, armageddon shields only appear, like, once a level (if at all). Remember that most levels have more than one of a special ring for a reason - it makes it harder for a single player to hog it. Also remember that one single shot against you can rid you of all those "overpowered" power-ups, so unless the rest of the players suck, you will still get hit and easily still have the possibilty to lose.
Erm, maybe if you're getting owned by "overpowered items", beat them to the punch yourself. SOMEONE is going to get that bomb ring if you don't, mister. If you do get it, no one is going to get that one for at least another 30 seconds.
Finally, if you can't get any rings, it's either the level's fault or (usually) you sucking.
I do believe you simply don't get the point of multiplayer game design. The idea is to have supply and demand, there there is more demand for an object than there is supply. Everyone on the map wants Attraction, Automatic, and 350 rings, but not every player can HAVE them. It creates an intentional imbalance where the players at the bottom want to become the player at the top. In order to reverse this situation, there are two things that player can do. They can hit the player with all those powerups, making that player lose them, or they can collect those powerups themselves. One hit is all it takes to bring someone down from their Attraction Shield, and another hit is all it takes to remove their ENTIRE amassed ring collection. This is an intentional design feature to make sure that one player cannot become too powerful. Two shots is all it takes to remove ALL their powerups.Super mystic sonic said:
Upping the respawn rate does not equalize the game. Everyone having rings means no player needs anything, and if you remove the powerful items in the game, there is no reason for the player to search out anything. Hence, most people, given the choice, will camp when they have every item they need. There's simply no reason to move around, which removes a lot of conflict from the game.Super mystic sonic said:
Now, you complain that collecting an Armageddon Shield, Attraction Shield, and Invincibility monitor makes a player far too powerful, and is completely luck-based. This is simply not the case. That player has been attempting to be around the randomly respawning monitor, and is rewarded with a major powerup. However, even the most powerful weapons in the game have weaknesses. The Attraction Shield will actually expand your hitbox slightly, as rings that come really close to you will home in on you. The Armageddon Shield, while amazingly powerful, is a one-time use item, and it's quite difficult to hit a large number of people with it to gain the full benefit. Invincibility, while amazing, only lasts twenty seconds, which should be enough time for 1 or 2 good hits.
Also, luck is a part of every competitive video game. In fact, I do better shooting red rings at experienced players than at newer players. The reason is simple: The way I minimize luck is by attempting to predict the opponent. Simply put, there is no way to control what the opponent does, and sometimes throwing a bunch of rings at someone will hit, and sometimes it won't. Whether or not your opponent falls for your tactic is pure luck on your end, and skill on the other player's part. There is nothing you can do to influence the other player's skill level. Hence, there is a definite luck aspect in any game of SRB2. Having another luck aspect in getting a good powerup turns out to be less influential than the luck of how the opponent reacts in the grand scheme of things.
You can influence both examples of luck, too, by frequently going to the randomly respawning monitor and predicting your opponent.
Why? The reason you have all the powerups is because you hunted the rest of the stage down for them. The rest of the players in the game had an equal chance to grab the powerups, and they didn't. Now, you are on the lead of the power curve, and the rest of the players want to put themselves on top. Even with Automatic and Attraction, you have a few weaknesses to exploit, especially when attacking you from behind. Your goal when you end up on top of the power curve is to stay there as long as possible, preferrably until the round ends. The rest of the players now need to take you down from your throne, either by hitting you to get rid of your powerups, or collecting a powerup of their own to counter it.Super mystic sonic said:
I will note that two of the powerups you complain about are designed as equalizers for match. Invincibility is a perfect weapon for removing someone from the throne, since 350 rings and all the weapons they want can't break through your 20 seconds of invulnerability. Armageddon is even more ridiculous for this. Jump-spin, and say goodbye to Attraction, Automatic-Infinity, or whatever other ridiculous powerups they've managed to acquire.
Honestly, the fact that you complain about this simply tells me that you're playing against people that are not of your skill level. If someone is playing against people who suck a lot compared to themselves, the game ceases to be fun. Removing all the weapons and powerups increases the luck involved in the game, and makes the games more random, so it _feels_ more balanced because the games are closer. The reality is that imbalance is natural due to variations in skill level, and if you're not having any trouble defeating people, perhaps its time for some better opponents. Increasing the randomness in the game by removing the offensive weapons in the game does not balance the game. In fact, it does the opposite.Super mystic sonic said:
SuperMecha
Member
I actually predict my opponent AND get the monitor, all n00bs I play with usually stay around the monitor, So once I see him/her get out, I shoot their powerup down, and while they are disabled for a few seconds I take that advantage and get the monitor, I do not stick around the monitor, though. I usually jump to a safe place, grab some rings, and go out again. I know that the n00b is probably there again, So I take that advantage and go up there and shoot the n00b down, I know then that once he is disabled I can grab the new powerup and jump off, that way I get some hits AND a powerup.
Next, I would like to talk about weapon rings, I usually do what mystic said, Grab the powerup and all my needs and get out of there! I think to myself. "Well, somebody will get that rail ring and item box if I dont. Better go get them!" it is all about that, getting your needs and a powerup so you can win, if you dont get those goodies somebody else will and is gonna have a bigger chance of winning, so if you do so you will have a bigger chance of winning, the way I think about it is, the more you have, the bigger chance of winning you have.
I hope you enjoyed this big post.
Next, I would like to talk about weapon rings, I usually do what mystic said, Grab the powerup and all my needs and get out of there! I think to myself. "Well, somebody will get that rail ring and item box if I dont. Better go get them!" it is all about that, getting your needs and a powerup so you can win, if you dont get those goodies somebody else will and is gonna have a bigger chance of winning, so if you do so you will have a bigger chance of winning, the way I think about it is, the more you have, the bigger chance of winning you have.
I hope you enjoyed this big post.
I'm just a "who cares let's play" type of guy so of course this thread means pretty much nothing to me. But then again, I really gotta wonder why you're all arguing over someone else's opinion. It's not like you're deciding on what goes into the game or anything. You're all just basically saying "SMS sucks because he doesn't play by the default rules". So? I rarely play by the default rules myself, at least when I'm playing with friends. I play with the rules me and my friend consider most fun, not what everyone else thinks is fun. If I'm playing in a hosted game from someone I don't know that well then I'll play by their rules, just like I do in the forums. I play by the administrator's rules here and I do it in hosted games as well. Honestly...who cares about what SMS plays by in SRB2? That's his business...
So yeah, my point is, is that there's no point. At least not to this thread.
So yeah, my point is, is that there's no point. At least not to this thread.
I don't have a problem with him having his opinions. The reason we call them the "default" settings implies that they can and will be changed, and there simply isn't a problem with that. The problem occurs when he starts telling people to change their map based on these opinions, which are completely against the majority of the community's viewpoint. He can play his games however he wants to. However, don't tell other people that their map should be this way because you hate weapon rings, or think that the game itself is cheap. That's just wrong, and he's giving people suggestions that will make their map WORSE, not better.JJames19119 said:
That's why I care. If you've got a psycho viewpoint, fine. Keep it to yourself if it means you're giving new mappers incorrect information.
Cue
ALAM STOP BREAKING THE S
I have nothing to add to this, apart from agreeing with almost everyone that has posted in this topic.
Fixed, I am severely out of practice, as in, I haven't played SRB2 in months.
On a side note, over the entire board's history, I have never seen a topic that as won as much as this one.
Super mystic sonic said:
Fixed, I am severely out of practice, as in, I haven't played SRB2 in months.
On a side note, over the entire board's history, I have never seen a topic that as won as much as this one.
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