SRB2 Heroes (slooowly progressing)

Well, but it may just be best to do Seaside Hill from the top. In the previous version of the mod (the canceled version), Mystic Mansion was made by someone else (can't recall name right now). That was one of the reasons the project restarted: to make everything original, so that Seaside Hill could be considered third-party-ish. No offense, I like the looks of that map (although the link's down), but we may remake it.
On the other hand, if the map does look like it was made for the mod's purpose and all that... It could stay.

And SpeedGod, I'm too lazy to check the image :P But either way, little does it matter, it's just dialog.

Speed, if you really care that much about presicion, this is his actual quote:

We have jungle mushrooms on my island too...but not this huge.

Click to expand...

Hey Espyo,do you have the music from SH? If not,then I could send you the soundtrack in one direct link.

It's MUCH BETTER than it was before, I'll give ya that, but...

-the 2D Part was useless, and easily skipable.
-It can STILL be one-man-pwned by Knux.
-There is no real reason to use Sonic anyways.
-The rain temporarily freezes the game when loading, totally breaking the flow. Though, I remember Mystic saying in another topic something about preloading rain...

But good job so far, and those textures look spiffy :3

Just a tip for the "One Man Complete" thing. Make all the walls have the No Climb flag and only have the walls which will be climbed with a different texture and an unchecked No Climb flag.

D00D64 said:

It's MUCH BETTER than it was before, I'll give ya that, but...

-There is no real reason to use Sonic anyways.

Click to expand...

If you say that, I think Tails and Knuckles should be slightly slowed down.

Don't worry you guys, the characters are all broken for these levels. Knuckles won't be able to climb in the final version, remember? As for the 2D part, DOOD64, I know it's useless, but it makes a cool gimmick, and basically, just a gimmick, IMO. And for those who think that it's too hard to pass it, I added that bridge for those who don't want it.
Sonic was the least needed character in Sonic Heroes anyway. Yet, in the final version, some more things will be unique to Sonic. About the pre-loading rain, I know it can be done, but I tried and tried! It was really my goal to not have that lag using the preloader, but I don't know how. There was an example file at the wiki, but in the 1.09.4 to 2.0 transition, the file got deleted.

Interesting. I like how you threw in a token (maybe there's more and I haven't looked hard enough). It's pretty simple to lump this and voila, you have a mod! I'm looking forward to the first official release and the improvements this will go through (because it does need some improvements, mind). But anyway, it's a good start.

That's what I wanted to hear, Gemini. In fact, that's what the beta stage is. The mod will be bound to change a lot when the final version comes out. Oh, and there's only one token. I think that I'll keep one token per level.

2D areas don't add anything to levels. They're getting overused now, so it won't make your level stand out among others.

Overused? I saw it in no place else. Also, one of the main reasons I made it was to see how well could a transparent wall system work. And besides, just because it's not original doesn't mean it's necessarily bad. And for those who get sick of using 2D mode (who could you get sick?), one can easily use Tails to acess the bridge in that area and fly from there. Or take the other path when the platforms rise by the rain.

Frog Forest was a pretty boring level.

One very major flaw is that Tails's flight ridiculously overpowered. There is only one very small area that Tails can't do by himself out of the entire thing.
Sonic is very underpowered. There is nothing that he can do that the others can't.
The level has many bland hallways with no action or detail in them. This is mostly notable at the end; the whole thing looked blocky, bland, and very ugly. There's almost no scenery besides masses of hills in some areas (which actually makes things feel cluttered) and the level instead feels like a bunch of green cliffs instead of a "frog forest".
There isn't much of a challenge to this level, because Tails can easily recover from falls and Knuckles can climb on any wall he wants to.
The recreation of the flower felt very lazy (a Zoom Tube with straight turns, you're floating in midair on nothing, and you're spinning). The fighting to break opens the gates was boring because you just dropped us on a platform with a bunch of enemies whose only means of attack is touching you. The entire idea of frogs causing rain felt very unpolished because there were no rainclouds, raindrops, or any effects to let you know that the frog even noticed you. We just get a temporary freeze followed by platforms rising unrealistically.
The "chatting" between characters was very dull (just a bunch of hints which we don't need) and it seems very unrealistic because there's no voices and it's simply a letter-and-colon on the bottom of the screen followed by words. I suggest that you add voices or simply remove the idea altogether. It feels very cheap and a waste of time.
I only remember seeing two bonuses throughout the level. They weren't placed in very clever locations (simply making it to the top was how you get one, and it's in plain sight at the beginning of the level).
There's only two different paths to take, and they meet each other fairly early.

And besides, just because it's not original doesn't mean it's necessarily bad.

Click to expand...

It's bad because it just isn't fun, it looks ugly, and it doesn't make sense.

(who could you get sick?)...

Click to expand...

I get sick of them because they don't add anything, they look ugly, and they don't make sense at all.

one can easily use Tails to acess the bridge in that area and fly from there. Or take the other path when the platforms rise by the rain.

Click to expand...

This is a terrible excuse. You can't tell critics to simply ignore something they don't like and not factor it into their reviews.

If there's one thing I appreciate is critics, because that's what help you improve levels, so thanks, Kyasarin. But nonetheless, you were pretty harsh.
Someone's creation is always great to his eyes, and that's a bit true: I think my Frog Forest looks neat, but of course I admit there are flaws, but you may have exagerated.

Tails' flight is needed. Sonic Heroes is about teamwork, and every one does their part. Maybe Tails is a bit overused, and that can be fixed in the future.
And also, one of the top rules of Sonic games is the flow. If I had more places where Tails couldn't pass, and the player needed to change leader constantly, you'd be upset yet still, so it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I said it before and I say it again: Sonic Heroe's Frog Forest is way more bland. I may sound like a jerk for keep insisting and thinking that I'm the man, and I have complex levels, but if there's one thing I cannot deny is that my Frog Forest is more complex than Sonic Heroes. Other than that, I had to keep Sonic Heroes' style of platforms on death-pits and had it complex. It's not an easy job. If I didn't keep the single platform style, it wouldn't be based on Sonic Heroes at all. And if I only had single platforms, it would be very dull. I think what I did is good. But yet, it could be better.

The ending is a bit pathetic, I admit it. As for the random hill details, what do you mean cluttered? I had no problem navigating trough the levels, and even if I'm the creator and know it from front to back, I hardly went against a wall.

I chose a pretty bad level, I admit. Frog Forest is very poor in textures, and this is the best I could do. And also, let's stop and think about the level. Frog Forest. Sonic Heroes' Frog Forest had 5% trees. That's stupid. I made a change to that, and I admit I'm not sure if it went well.

Now, I'm starting to get pissed. I keep saying that Knuckles will be changed in the future. He won't climb. I'm going to add this to the 1st post. Also, add some suggestions on how to make it a bit harder please. I'm a bit stuck here...

Dude, what else could I do to simulate the flower? I dare you to find something better than a Zoom Tube. In the future we could program a different linedef type that simulates it better, but as for now, nothing would work better than a Zoom Tube.

I had to have a fight, because Sonic Heroes' had a lot of them, so it isn't my fault. And I wanted to add Jetty-Syn Gunners and Bombers, I really did, but there's a problem with adding them. The TLE - No More Enemies (Once) checks for enemies inside a sector, and while Crawlas can't leave that sector, Jetty-Syns can. And once the Jetty-Syn is off, it counts as dead. So there's little I can do. I also kept the Egg Knights because they will have 2 HP points (or more) in future versions of SRB2. I mean, that's what everyone wants, so I guess so.

There can't be rain clouds in SRB2. There are rain drops though. If you can't see them, that may be because of the precipitation drawing speed: not my problem. And even in Sonic Heroes the rain was a bit weird. The freeze is an issue I'm still trying to resolve. The rain needs to preload, and I'm having trouble with that. Also, what more realism could I add to the platforms' rise?

The chatting was a big part of Sonic Heroes. Ok, not big, but quite present. And if you compare Frog Forest V1 with V2, you'll see that there's less useless speech, and more useful speech, specially in the hint orbs. It seems unrealistic? I'm sorry, but WTF? Even though one of Sonic Heroes' aspects is the text, it isn't very important, and neither is it in SRB2Heroes. Adding voices: no freking way. Seriously. This is a mod, not a game. Possibly, in the future, there'll be an option to disable the speech, but I can't figure out why would one do that. It's just speech, and it doesn't look bad. Also, waste of time? You can do anything while they're talking.

The bonuses couldn't be in much better locations, really. IF I improve the level's complexity, this could change, but in this version, those were the best locations really.

You're a bit right about the multiple paths tough. But it's still part of the inevitable linearity in Sonic Heroes. I really wanted to make the multiple paths better, but I can't.

Are you afraid of a gimmick? Geesh. It's just a small portion with 2D. Nothing "ugly". Come on. If you really don't like it, I suggest you retire from playing video games, because it's practically impossible to find a game/level without a gimmick. It's just a small harmless eye-candy. Don't exaggerate.

I'm not telling you to ignore. In fact, I recalled the bridge to indicate it's existence to people who find the 2D part hard.

I'm not exaggerating the 2D area. I fell down constantly due to bad controls. I eventually got sick of it.
For the rain clouds, you can have an FOF appear from the sky in the same way the growing plants did.
You can't say "because Sonic Heroes did it" as an excuse for having boring fights. If I remember correctly, there ARE Linedef specials that can prevent enemy movement. I've done it before with bosses.
For the flower, I suggest coding. Simply using an SOC or a Zoom Tube doesn't work much better.
And about the "my Frog Forest is more complex than Sonic Heroes" comment: What's your point? I don't care if yours is more complex, and I don't see what that has to do with my previous comments. Even if it is more complex, it feels simply like a generic obstacle course set upon high heights. Even if you're trying to make it similar to Sonic Heroes's level, you shouldn't make the scenery so dull and basic.

My pc got a virus. I have to make all the level over. Please wait...

Crap, Shawn! Did you manage to save the level, at least?

And Kyasarin, I don't think the controls are that bad at the 2D area. If so, blame it on the SRB2 engine, not me. A different thing though is that the platforms may be hard to notice sometimes, but nothing too difficult.

I don't know about the rain clouds... I think that would look seriously pathetic... Review discussion aside, I sincerely cannot imagine an FOF-cloud. I'll try to see how it works in Lost Jungle. Oh, and I forgot to say, but in Sonic Heroes the screen gets darker when it rains. I wasn't able to recreate that in SRB2, but I'll try to turn it around.

I'm going to have some parts that will be the same as Sonic Heroes. This is a Sonic Heroes mod, what did you expect? I'm sorry, but you're going to have to live with boring fights. Incidentally, that's why I place an Armageddon shield here and there. And there is a linedef flag that blocks monsters, but it really doesn't work right. Specially with Crawla Commanders. One second they are in, the other they're out of the linedef.

Ok, the flower will most likely be made differently. At the very least, place the player in the "grabbing" animation. I admit I replied to harshly about that. These beta flower flights will be changed.

About that persistent comment, I'm just saying that no matter how simple and dull it is, one can't deny that I did a better job than Sonic Heroe's team. But... what other type of scenery could I make? What other kind of improvements?
Please suggest some so that Frog Forest V3 can be great.

You could add trees, plants, areas with large amounts of flowers growing, and little things like that. Anything beautiful you'd find in nature.

I did add some places with flowers here and there... But ok, more detail. Got it. Also, in Sonic Heroes, there are some parts with a group of vines here and there, and I anticipated myself and released it before adding similar scenery.

Kyasarin said:

I'm not exaggerating the 2D area. I fell down constantly due to bad controls. I eventually got sick of it.

Click to expand...

Tell me you're joking. That part was clever, I found that it was inserted very well and it wasn't that hard.

I'm not joking. It wasn't particularly clever as it appeared out of nowhere when you approach a wall. You have to suddenly familiarize yourself with the controls, you'll have to figure out the new physics, and then make your way up a monotonous climb with Springs.