Making levels is rather painful.

So I made my first trek into making levels as well as using Doom Builder. I hit what was essentially a brick wall in terms of virtually everything.

First problem: it's hard to make a level flow like a Sonic game should. At least, in terms of what Robo Blast 2 is trying to emulate: the Classic games. I tried making multiple pathways with just a single sector and a giant pillar showed up. So, I just merged all of the pathways. I probably should have made another thok barrier or something, but I didn't. So, I ended up with a large, open space.

Second: Z offsets. For some reason, the version of Doom Builder I downloaded doesn't let me offset the Z axis of anything. I'm not sure if I'm using the wrong config file or something, but I couldn't get anything placed of FOFs because it didn't have the Z axis option.

Third: it's hard to keep a level interesting. I made the general layout and began to try to spice it up a bit. I did a run through with just the layout first and it was over in 12 seconds. I tried making the level bigger and it didn't improve at all. I eventually decided this was because the level was empty, so I added some Things and a staircase. However, the level was still too open, the decorations weren't very interesting, and I couldn't make the staircase hide anything because you could just walk around it.

I wanted to hide a super ring box behind the staircase, but between the ability to walk around it and the enemies behind it, the box was just pointless.

Fourth, the camera gets stuck on everything. I didn't want to make a huge barren level, but it was getting too cramped and the camera would get stuck. That also leads into a fracunit just being too small. Areas I thought looked rather large were just plain tiny in testing.

I know it's my first try at all of this, but this process was rather tiring. All I need to know is A) how would I go about separating pathways (creating a wall in between the two) and B) what config file/version of Doom Builder is necessary for getting Z offsets.

I'm tired...

I'll be first to say, look up the wiki, because trust me, they can teach you basics like that.

For A, it would be the same exact way you create a thok barrier. For B, http://mb.srb2.org/showthread.php?t=36457

Pixel-Voxel said:

Second: Z offsets. For some reason, the version of Doom Builder I downloaded doesn't let me offset the Z axis of anything. I'm not sure if I'm using the wrong config file or something, but I couldn't get anything placed of FOFs because it didn't have the Z axis option.

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Yeah, that's a known problem with Doom Builder 2 IIRC, it doesn't support SRB2's z offsets stuff. Maybe you should try SRB2 Doom Builder 2? Yacker has already linked the thread for that thankfully.

For everything else, it's really all down to practice in the end. Nobody learns how to make awesome SRB2 maps within just a day of starting!

Yacker said:

For A, it would be the same exact way you create a thok barrier.

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Would that be applying the wall textures or creating another thok barrier?

It would be creating another thok barrier, they are required for any walls you want in a level (besides FOF walls, and walls you want players to cross...)

i've tried "Setup FOF" from the Old DoomBuilder,for some Reasons it's Not working for the New SRB2 Version (I Think so) Hope you'll Convert this feature to V2.1 of SRB2,so Designing Maps will be easier

The FOF setup feature hasn't been updated since 1.09.4, and since SRB2DB is no longer in development, it will stay that way. Just make the FOF manually, it's easy anyway.

@doom Make a triangle. Make one linedef 100, give it a tag number, adjust it's height. Why do people need a simpler method of doing this?

@yacker and pixel: well, thok barriers can be used as walls, but a simple sector within a thok barrier can also act as a wall.

Hm... now this is getting weird. So, I have to make another thok barrier in the same shape as the spot in which there are going to be walls? That sounds rather complicated. These weren't simple squares... Moreover, I thought the thok barrier had to be larger than the sector it was providing walls for...

Also of note, I think I realized why I didn't start off with Doom Builder 2. More problems with the PC I'm stuck using! Hooray!... I swear I'll replace this at some point. SOME POINT.

EDIT: Wait... so, I just need to make another sector, regardless of whether or not it'd be a thok barrier. OK, I'll try that... I guess.

TheDoctor said:

@doom Make a triangle. Make one linedef 100, give it a tag number, adjust it's height. Why do people need a simpler method of doing this?

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Because Mind-Blind Noobs like me will annoy the IRC on how to do this without messing up...

Making a good level takes a lot of practice to learn what works and what doesn't. Many of the larger levels you see around here have months, if not a whole year of work put into them. If you're having trouble getting the right sense of flow down, play some of you're favorite levels, and take note of places that really stick out to you and feel good. Try to replicate the feeling you had when you ran through those portions of the level.

As far as building it with doombuilder goes, it's a giant uphill battle to get exactly what you want. But eventually, with enough practice, you get used to it.



Level design takes quite a bit of time and effort.

I dread the practice for that. Oh well, I'll get to work tomorrow...

Thanks for the advice though. I appreciate it all. Thank you everyone.

Making levels is rather painful.

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Truer words have never been spoken.

This was my first level. It's also my only level. Just that tiny little thing managed to convince me to never make another map ever again.

Well, as many have stated before, you don't ever do it right on the first try.

Look on the bright side: at least you finished yours! I gave up partway through because I tried too hard to make a linear level interesting. Curse you, modern game design. You and your tricks...

Pixel-Voxel said:

Well, as many have stated before, you don't ever do it right on the first try.

Look on the bright side: at least you finished yours! I gave up partway through because I tried too hard to make a linear level interesting. Curse you, modern game design. You and your tricks...

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(I find this quite funny, as how it describes my first map I ever made, in fact we are discussing it on another topic; it's Splash Hill, and to this day I still haven't gotten it right :P)

Before making a level one must understand how. I recommend you play around with some of the stuff DB can do. Make random sectors, attach random linedefs, learn to make FOFs, and basically play around with it. Don't think about making a level yet, think about making SOMETHING. From there, you will advance.

TheDoctor said:

(I find this quite funny, as how it describes my first map I ever made, in fact we are discussing it on another topic; it's Splash Hill, and to this day I still haven't gotten it right :P)

Before making a level one must understand how. I recommend you play around with some of the stuff DB can do. Make random sectors, attach random linedefs, learn to make FOFs, and basically play around with it. Don't think about making a level yet, think about making SOMETHING. From there, you will advance.

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I like this advice, if only there was a good NODEBUILDER that i can download from here! Seriously, I can't even use DB2's settings because it doesn't have a nodebuilder for SRB2...

I personally use DB1. Never failed me before, and I doubt it ever will. I tried DB2, but it has too many fancy buttons and visual effects, and stuff. I don't need that. What I need is a good editor, not a program from hollywood.

Ah, so your level design comes from DB1. That makes me feel a bit better and it explains why you don't have any springs on FOFs...

I've never been too good with just messing around in a level editor. Especially not under the circumstances of a game that has a tendency to hall-of-mirrors on you. Ugh, that glitch disturbs me to no end.

@Pixel: Yeah, SHZ has absolutly NO springs on FoF's..except those three other times.

In DB1, you can manually raise a thing's height, move it on top of an FOF, and the item will be on the FOF.

That HOM is not a glitch, it is a game rendering nothingness. I first encountered it in a Quake 3 game titled "Jedi Academy" when I teleported outside of the map. Woops. Anyways, the reason for this is that the game is showing you a void, something that does not exist. How can one possibly see something that isn't there?

The way to avoid this, is simply place something there, should it be a texture or a skybox ala thok barrier.