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Old 02-19-2015   #521
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But this is "Sonic", a videogame character, not real life.
And Sonic was originally meant to run like this:

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Old 02-19-2015   #522
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Originally Posted by VirtualBlitz546 View Post
But this is "Sonic", a videogame character, not real life.
And Sonic was originally meant to run like this:

-Image-
FuckingSonic has bigger sprites than Genesis Sonic. Trust me, it'd look just as crazy to see Sonic bob a pixel up and down each frame on a Genesis as to see Sonic not bob up and down each frame in Sonic Robo Blast 2. Well, FuckingSonic not bobbing would look far worse than Genesis Sonic bobbing, not just as bad.
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Old 02-20-2015   #523
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Originally Posted by VirtualBlitz546 View Post
But this is "Sonic", a videogame character, not real life.
And Sonic was originally meant to run like this:

unnecessarily large graphic here
I really have no idea how to respond to this. This is asinine.

The visual upgrade in the new Sonic is stellar and is supposed to be an artistically stylized version of Sonic, not an exact replica of the original games.
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Old 02-20-2015   #524
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No one's head is perfectly still when they're running, especially when you're running at the speed of sound. I like Roach's animation more; it gives Sonic actual body movement.
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Old 02-20-2015   #525
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Originally Posted by VirtualBlitz546 View Post
But this is "Sonic", a videogame character, not real life.
That's a really bad excuse and you should feel bad for even using it. Just because Sonic isn't a real life character, doesn't means his running animation can be slightly more natural.

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Originally Posted by VirtualBlitz546 View Post
And Sonic was originally meant to run like this
You didn't even tell me why it makes his running look better, you just told me that I should change it because that's how the classic games do it, as if it would be completely wrong if I did not mimic that.

Tell me, why does it looks wrong if he moves one pixel up and down a little while he runs? Why should I make his body and head stay perfectly static? Can you give me a legit and constructive criticism that doesn't has to do with "but the original games were different!"?
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Old 02-20-2015   #526
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Keep in mind that a reason the original games kept him static was to save memory and reuse 8x8 tiles in VRAM. SRB2 doesn't have to worry about VRAM.
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Old 02-20-2015   #527
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Originally Posted by MotorRoach View Post
Tell me, why does it looks wrong if he moves one pixel up and down a little while he runs? Why should I make his body and head stay perfectly static? Can you give me a legit and constructive criticism that doesn't has to do with "but the original games were different!"?
Because (for me) stylistic choice. I honestly can't stand the bob in its current state, it looks so overdone and unnatural to my eyes. But that's the point: it's stylistic choice and that alone. If you, the developer, the artist behind this want the bob then god damn it there will be a bob. I just don't like it, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Like fish. God I hate fish.

I can only assume that the same applies to the other critiquers in my boat.

also, we should totally build srb2 with some asinine memory limit for no reason that makes the max resolution 160x100 and forces patch sizes to be smaller than 32x32
those were the good ol' days, yesiree

Last edited by Metal96; 02-20-2015 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 02-20-2015   #528
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Originally Posted by Rob View Post
I really have no idea how to respond to this. This is asinine.
Thanks for the compliment. I'll explain below.

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Originally Posted by MotorRoach View Post
That's a really bad excuse and you should feel bad for even using it. Just because Sonic isn't a real life character, doesn't means his running animation can be slightly more natural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualFest456
Because it gives the feel of the old genesis games, if this is not what we're talking about here, then the game should be named Modern Sonic Robo Blast 2.
You didn't even tell me why it makes his running look better, you just told me that I should change it because that's how the classic games do it, as if it would be completely wrong if I did not mimic that.

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Originally Posted by VirtualFest456
Like I said before, it gives the game a more deep look to the old genesis games, I never said you had to change the running and said "o mei ged iz zo baddddd itz nut laik de jeneziz taimz dizlike itz realy badz". I just disagree with people mumbling around how the original running of Sonic is so unreal if he, after all, is a ficticious videogame character and has nothing to do with reality. Got my point? I didn't say anything because just to say it.
Tell me, why does it looks wrong if he moves one pixel up and down a little while he runs? Why should I make his body and head stay perfectly static? Can you give me a legit and constructive criticism that doesn't has to do with "but the original games were different!"?

Quote:
I never said it looked wrong, did you even read correctly my post? And now that you said it, I can only say Sonic's head seems to bounce too much for my liking, you could fix this by making the top first spine stay static.
And for the constructive criticism...
I'm not good giving criticism like everyone here, but I'll try.
Before starting, I want to say I never said you had to make Sonic run all static, I just pointed out how the original running concept of Sonic was.

So, let's start. Moving the whole spirite up and down is, for me, a total useless way to make Sonic bob up and down, what if the sprite stays static? Can you do a little gif of it? Then, he will still move his head, if I'm not wrong. The old Srb2 Sonic sprites did move Sonic correctly, if I'm not wrong again, why not doing the new Sonic like the old one? This is, I guess, my little criticism to you. Please, don't take it as rude, I still like the sprites
I hope this has been more than clear.
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Old 02-20-2015   #529
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Originally Posted by Boinciel View Post
Keep in mind that a reason the original games kept him static was to save memory and reuse 8x8 tiles in VRAM. SRB2 doesn't have to worry about VRAM.
This is bullshit. Sprite mappings can be offset by any amount of pixels in any direction while still using the same art. This is the only difference between Sonic 1 and Sonic CD's walking sprites and accounts for why one bounces around a lot and the other one looks like it's sliding on ice.
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Old 02-20-2015   #530
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Wow, some people are pickier than I thought I even was, except they're maybe being picky over something totally stupid and superfluous. To point about something like this, such a small thing, (that actually makes the sprite look less awkward) simply for the sake of nostalgia is absolutely ridiculous and the comment about it shouldn't have even existed. I can't even call this criticism, its just a really minor subjective complaint.


But Roach, like a minor ridiculous qualm from a population of 1 person(s), you really need to just learn how to skip over and ignore it sometimes. If it isn't legit constructive criticism and you know you will not agree under any circumstances for changing it, why can't you just ignore the post and move on? Its the kind of attention giving that derails topics.
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Old 02-20-2015   #531
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Boy, I sure am glad I mentioned this. *slaps self*

Motor, the sprites look great. Ignore me and everyone else and do your thing.

Rest of everyone, this is getting flame-y. I made my first comment not knowing of the intention, which changes everything. I relinquish my opinion to that of the artist and retract my claims. This is turning into a fight over nothing with our spriter in the middle. Do y'all want FuckingSonic or what?

EDIT: This thread has descended into chaos far too many times already. Please can it not happen again?
EDIT2: NOTE: Edit made approximately two seconds before Motor's reply (for the sake of temporal linking/understanding)

Last edited by Metal96; 02-20-2015 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 02-20-2015   #532
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Originally Posted by VirtualBlitz546 View Post
The old Srb2 Sonic sprites did move Sonic correctly, if I'm not wrong again, why not doing the new Sonic like the old one?


What do you know, the old Sonic bops up and down as well. But since you insist in looking at how they look without moving:



The way the old Sonic's head moves is horrible. Not only because the the middle and bottom spines hardly move naturally, but the top spine keeps flopping up and down naturally. This is less noticeable with the up and down movement. The newer animation when static looks... dumb. Because only his legs are doing the movement, yet he would remain barely moving, even when moving with his legs doing a circular movement.

And let me get me one thing straight and clear about "stylistic choices". Using that as an argument is also a horrible idea. There's no such thing as "If you want to follow Sonic's design style, then his head must stay perfectly still while running!". Why? Because that would be a stupid rule for a style, and that's not how style works.

Let me explain this one thing I learned at the time I was still studying art. I learned that if you are working on any industry that involves art in it, you will need to explain to your director/boss why you compose a picture or animation in such way. If you were to do something, and then your boss were to ask you "Why did you make it like that?", answering with something such as "It's just how the style works!" and nothing else, chances are that your boss would laugh at you and tell you to come up with something else with a decent reason next time. You can't just tell him it's a "stylish choice", because there's a reason why, and it's mostly because it's an irrational argument for most of the part.

And it's just as Zwip said. Had the Sonic 1 running animation been moving up and down by one pixel, it would possibly have looked a little too exaggerated, considering the sprite size that the game had, which was quite small. Sonic Robo Blast 2, on the other hand, has much bigger sprites, which makes moving up and down by one pixel hardly an issue, as well why it doesn't looks exaggerated as it would have if Sonic 1 did it.

Now can you please stop using "I don't like it" as an argument? It's getting on my nerves.
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Old 02-20-2015   #533
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Let me explain this one thing I learned at the time I was still studying art. I learned that if you are working on any industry that involves art in it, you will need to explain to your director/boss why you compose a picture or animation in such way. [...]

Now can you please stop using "I don't like it" as an argument? It's getting on my nerves.
So did they never teach you that art is extremely subjective and there's no pleasing everyone? Seriously, stop it with the walls of text, it's not making you look any smarter.
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Old 02-20-2015   #534
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Okay this is getting silly, you've all been spending the last few dozen posts or so nitpicking or ranting over semantics of artwork design of all things?

Can we just get back on topic now before infractions are dealt over this? Thank you.
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Old 02-20-2015   #535
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Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
So did they never teach you that art is extremely subjective and there's no pleasing everyone? Seriously, stop it with the walls of text, it's not making you look any smarter.
Just because art is subjective does not mean that it can not be discussed by addressing its flaws and criticizing it, even if the critique is flawed to an extent. MotorRoach's post hardly qualifies as a wall of text, and the intention wasn't to "make himself look smart", it's called addressing complaints
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Old 02-20-2015   #536
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Enough.

Look, criticism is a subjective thing, and back-and-forth on it is ok. But we're now approaching a very dark gray area with some of the comments and it needs to stop. Conversing is fine, just be aware that not everyone is going to agree on something as subjective as art.
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Old 02-20-2015   #537
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Originally Posted by MotorRoach View Post
And it's just as Zwip said. Had the Sonic 1 running animation been moving up and down by one pixel, it would possibly have looked a little too exaggerated, considering the sprite size that the game had, which was quite small. Sonic Robo Blast 2, on the other hand, has much bigger sprites, which makes moving up and down by one pixel hardly an issue, as well why it doesn't looks exaggerated as it would have if Sonic 1 did it.
Good while of editing, that is all.

EDIT: Alt version.

Last edited by Senku Niola; 02-20-2015 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 02-20-2015   #538
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Good while of editing, that is all.
It looks way more like all of Sonic is bobbing than just his body and head (even though I know it's only his body and head). Unlike FuckingSonic. And that looks horrible. Again unlike FuckingSonic.

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Old 02-20-2015   #539
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Spoiler: offtopic


To be fair, if you were to use the closest approximation of size to the graphics in the wad, which are the xtreme sprites, you would actually be bobbing /more/ than it already is.
Anyway, back on topic, I feel that the graphics are turning out great, and am anxiously awaiting the update so I can play with them.

and maybe update shoecolor
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Old 02-20-2015   #540
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This is probably the best explanation of bobbing 'correctly'. Roach's Sonic should be more like this, the only thing I find disturbing on his Sonic is the top spine, while he goes up, the spine goes up too , and goes the same direction when going down. The old Srb2Sonic did the opposite thing, while bobing up, the spine goes down, and while down, the spine goes up.
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