Zelda: Skyward Sword

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Final Radiance said:
I'm OK with that, but it seems a little awkward, because it makes Nintendo look lazy for not making realistic graphics with that, But like I said, It could be because it's in beta form.
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You're entitled to prefer the realistic graphics, just as I'll always opt for style. However, you would be quite mistaken to believe that they are "lazy" by not making it realistic. In fact, it has taken more work to settle with the impressionistic style they've opted for than it would have to keep things realistic. Miyamoto has stated in an interview and quoted since in many previews that the game would be done by now if they kept things in the same realistic tone as TP.

He said that realism was too restrictive. They wanted visual cues to aid the motion plus, and ones that were clear. These would look out of place and unnatural in a TP-like environment.
In any creative work, you set yourself your limitations, and it is how you keep everything within those limitations that it feels genuine rather than random. In a game, this includes the art style. They made the game first and then the art, so if something needs to change, it will be the art. I believe that they find the impressionist style to be more in line with what they want out of a Zelda game than a realistic style.

orangerie_cezanne.jpg

In an interview they've compared the art style in Skyward Sword to Paul Cezanne. I have to agree that looking at this painting and those like it, I see much more potential for a fantasy video game world than the visceral, realistic world you'd see sci-fi or horror games benefit from.

Rather than push further into realism the same way most popular games do, they sought out a art style that could be effectively married to the game experience. And that's not easy.
 
Autosaver said:
Its comes with the Wii + Wiimotes.

It's a standard now.
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Well, that's new.

Even still, I feel that I shouldn't dish out $40 or so to buy one, even after I bought mines before the price drop and making it standard.

Brb, begging parents to buy me one to play this game/Red Steel 2/Whatever the fuck I feel like
 
I can't wait to see how this game turns out. It looks fun. Especially with the wii remote being the sword idea. Though on e3 nintendo shigeru miyamoto was failing. It was only because of a wireless interferance. Still fun to watch. I do wish nintendo would make a game like Wind waker but for wii. That game was really well done.
 
I kind of hate how people are saying "Oh no, this is wind waker all over again" when it's a freaking mix between Twilight Princess and Wind Waker's art styles. You can clearly see this, too.
 
Autosaver loves N-Sider.com :D

And Nintendo is lazy? They've cut corners before (NSMBWii has quite a bit of evidence) but looking at the work they've put into their upcoming titles, I'd say the the complete opposite is true.
 
Wait... what?

We're talking about how Skyward Sword isn't Wind Waker all over again. The second picture was blocked by Neogaf though, so tons of people couldn't see the point.
 
JEV3 said:
*Very much the many words*
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Dear god, I have no idea what the hell I was thinking back then. Ignore the previous statement I had there, since it's invalid now.

I was ignorant, aside from the fact that having this simple style would make the game have more 3-D models rather than sprites or fake backgrounds. But the fact that there can be so much done with the selected style, that it can look like a work of art.

I don't have the respect of realistic graphics as I used to have, they may be pretty nifty, (And sometimes amazing, like the hedgehog engine) but, some games have a very appealing art style set for only that game, think Okami. That game was gorgeous, and it didn't have a realistic style put to it.

And if I recall correctly, when Wind Waker was released, people were thoroughly disappointing by the fact that it wasn't that E3 video that was shown at the time, people complained about the style, and even when Twilight Princess was released, people complained that it was nothing like Wind Waker, so Nintendo mixed their styles in this.
This was simply something I've heard, though, I highly doubt it's likely.
 
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Back when Wind Waker was released, I really wasn't digging its visual style. Everything looked so bare and undetailed and... bizarre. In particular, I wasn't too fond of Link's football-shaped eyes. My early experience with the Gamecube was awesomely realistic graphics (having played games like Super Smash Bros. Melee and Luigi's Mansion beforehand). Wind Waker went against those expectations and it looked really out of place, and although I admired the Gamecube's ability to do nice cel-shaded graphics (Bomberman Generation had this, and I thought its graphics were pretty good), for some reason Wind Waker's appearance just didn't click with me.

Looking back however, I'm now realizing just how much of a fool I was. Today's games? Absolutely nothing but realism. UGH. I swear, I'm so tired of seeing brown colors and boring textures and bland writing. After playing through and finishing Twilight Princess about a month ago (I put the game down shortly before finishing it a few years ago, started a new save) and having a rather icky taste in my mouth, I decided to pop in Wind Waker, and I instantly found that the visual style and quality of writing was an immense improvement over what TP offered. Simply put, Wind Waker actually stood out. Its visual style meshed well with the game's universe and scenario, and it wasn't like every single other game out there today that tries way too hard to be hyper-realistic. Seriously.

Skyward Sword looks like Twilight Princess with bright textures and even blander writing, so I'm really not looking forward to this one unless people can convince me that they've hired a writer who can actually create a believable storyline this time around. I'd also like them to cut the stupid filler crap and stop padding out the game's length.
 
Blitzzo said:
I'd also like them to cut the stupid filler crap and stop padding out the game's length.
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Blitzzo, Wind Waker is where this came into the forefront. I shouldn't need to remind you all the downtime that was in Wind Waker, and that Triforce fragment hunt was so bad it caused me to quit the game entirely, only coming back to it a few years later when one of my friends told me that the ending was worth it (which I will admit it was). Wind Waker, for all the good that it had, was the sheer definition of awful filler in a huge percentage of the game. In fact, if you ask me to remember one thing about that game that stands out, it would immediately be how much I fucking hated that Triforce hunt and all the time I was stuck doing some stupid fetch quest for NPC A to find NPC B halfway across the world, so I can go all the way back to NPC A and ARGH WHEN CAN I ACTUALLY HAVE A DUNGEON OR EVEN AN AREA WHERE I GET TO EXPLORE OR FIGHT SOMETHING *hack*

I'm quite excited for Skyward Sword, being filled with bright colors and more vivid details than Twilight Princess, while still having the moderately realistic proportions on all of its characters. This doesn't look to be a sea of brown, but it also isn't a cell-shaded style either. I hold out hope that we'll actually get a lot of dungeons and a lot of real, legitimate content this time instead of filler, but even with a little bit of filler I'll probably be okay with the results.
 
I agree, I found the gameplay in Wind Waker a much easier difficulty than TP and a lot of it felt like wasting time sailing...even worse than riding a horse around the countryside (which really didn't seem to take too long most of the time).

Liked the style (tho the human design was kinda weird), but I felt other areas suffered.
 
I like Zelda......a lot, but if I have to go through one more water temple then I'm going to drown myself. Ocarina of time had me in that temple for 2 months! I guess I just don't like water levels, including those in the Sonic, and Mario series.
 
Outside of the Triforce Hunt, I don't think Wind Waker really had a ton of downtime between dungeons compared to Twilight Princess. The only really bad sail is from Windfall to Outset (as well as from Outset to the various Triangle Islands if you measure the entire route length rather than the individual routes between the islands). Not too long afterward, you can get the Ballad of Gales which really shortens your travel time. I recently entered the Earth Temple during my current playthrough and I was actually surprised by how little downtime there was between that and the previous dungeon (Forsaken Fortress).

Twilight Princess actually had a ton of filler. It's not one huge bout of filler like with Wind Waker, but several smaller portions. The first three dungeons required a TON of downtime before you could enter them. The Twilight segments with their mini "Triforce Hunts" were particularly bad. Although the first one was fairly decent, the second one was a bit annoying and the third one was plain awful (targets spread across half the game world, had to do the same flight minigame twice). You essentially had to go through the same areas twice, one as each form. That screams filler to me.

TP also had a lot of useless cutscenes which had nothing to do with the game's major plot points. A lot of these were part of mandated filler sidequests in between dungeons ("save the cookie-cutter amnesiac character!"). Wind Waker's cutscenes were far more sparse and relevant (and also more entertaining to boot).

I think the part that bothers me the most is how long it takes before you actually get to go into TP's first dungeon. Looking back at OoT, that game had a very nice and short start-to-dungeon. You watch the intro cutscene (which is like a short minute or two), then leave your house, go into the tiny boulder maze to get the sword, buy the shield from the store, and then take a short walk to the Great Deku Tree. Bam. You're already in the first dungeon. I kinda wish Nintendo would go back to that, to be honest.
 
I don't like my dungeons cut and dry, I prefer them to mesh in with the game over and around them so rather than pieces of the game reading as either filler or dungeon, they both feel present and relevant. Its why I prefer Okami to Legend of Zelda, but that has tons of cutscenes and dialogue.

I don't mind my story being a little cinematic, especially because some of the filler side-stories in TP I really enjoyed (saving the kids in Kakariko village for example, some of the Illia stuff was fun too, frankly).

I don't think whether or not you wind up in a dungeon in the first five minutes of the game is what's important. As long as you don't feel like you've been waiting forever by the time you get to the first dungeon, you're good.

Also, I'd rather the filler be spread out in between all the quests (and I'd rather more of it be optional so I can feel good for doing it instead of just doing it to finish the game) rather than come all at once in one chunk. If you're saying TP spread the filler out as opposed to Wind Waker, I think that actually is a plus.
 
JEV3 said:
As long as you don't feel like you've been waiting forever by the time you get to the first dungeon, you're good.
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Except that during my previous playthrough, I did feel like I was waiting forever. Here's all the filler I had to trudge through just to get to the first dungeon:

- Herd goats with Epona
- Solve several puzzles in Ordon Village:
- Take down the bee's nest with a hawk
- Grab a cradle with a hawk
- Appease the cat by going fishing, catching a bite, then having the cat steal the fish from you​
- Buy the slingshot and play through a mandatory tutorial
- Play through a mandatory sword tutorial
- Enter the woods to get the Lantern
- Take the Lantern through the cave, then traverse N. Faron Woods
- Break the cage to save Talo (and a monkey)
- Herd goats AGAIN (argh)
- Ilia decides to be a flat, obnoxious and stereotypical female character and then steals Epona from you ("Oh no! Epona got a really teeny tiny splinter! You're a horrible person, Link! I'm stealing Epona from you despite the fact that you need her for an important delivery!")
- Ilia changes her mind
- Enter the Twilight and become a wolf, then get transported into the Hyrule Castle dungeon
- Play through the dungeon...
- Pull open some floodgate handles in order to open up the different routes throughout the dungeon
- Go up the stairs and then across some rooftops.
- At the end, get transported back into the light world, but still remain a wolf (argh, how long is this going to take)
- Enter Ordon Village again and get attacked by a hawk
- Raid the houses to obtain a shield...
- And then a sword.
- Enter the Twilight again, except this time in Faron Woods
- Get penned up and fight the Twilight monsters
- Go to the spring to hear the spirit exposit about light and dark and all that
- Hunt for the bugs and defeat them to snatch the tears.
- Traverse through N. Faron Woods again
- Play through the exact same Twilight monster fight again
- Light gets returned to the area
- Go into N. Faron Woods yet again (grrr)
- Tip-toe along as you wait for the monkey to slowly transport you across the fog
- Get taught the Ending Blow
- Finally enter the Forest Temple.


This is what I'm referring to when I'm talking about filler. Not only do I have to traverse through the same regions multiple times, but I have to deal with numerous story scenes (the vast majority of which I didn't even mention here, to try and be fair by keeping the list as short as I can), training exercises, puzzles, and item hunts before I can get into the heart of gameplay.

Compare with Wind Waker:

- Climb down from the observation post and head to your grandmother's house to get your new clothes
- Optionally explore the area and learn the controls and gameplay basics (picking up pots, crawling, plus the series of written tutorials)
- Climb back up and get the telescope from your sister and enter a very brief mini-"tutorial" on using the telescope.
- Go to Orca to play through a mandatory tutorial on using the sword, and then obtain said sword.
- Go up to the top of the island and cross the bridge into the forest.
- Run through the forest, killing the enemies to rescue Tetra.
- Back at ground, visit your grandmother's to obtain the shield.
- On the pirate ship, complete a rope swinging minigame.
- Play through the Forsaken Fortress (could this be considered the first dungeon? It has a map and stuff, but it's not exactly the "staple" dungeon you typically play through)
- You've lost your sword, so you have to use stealth (barrel sneaking).
- Get thrown in jail for a free trip to the second floor.
- Reach the top to regain your sword, then get thrown out into the ocean.
- Wake up at Windfall, where you much purchase a sail.
- With the sail, travel a few blocks to Dragon Roost.
- Receive a mandatory tutorial on using the Wind Waker.
- Inside the island, hear the plight of the Rito people and deliver a message to Komali.
- Fly Medli up to the top of a bridge
- Bomb a rock to fill the dried up lake with water and swim into Dragon Roost Cavern (the first "canonical" dungeon)

Yes, Wind Waker has filler, but the start-to-dungeon is a lot less painful than with Twilight Princess. Also, part of it involves some dungeon-like gameplay, and the only area you have to travel to twice is your grandmother's house. It's also worth noting that after the first dungeon in Wind Waker, you can head straight to the second dungeon with very minimal downtime (sail to the Forest Haven, kill some enemies, watch a story scene, bounce and fly up to the top, and then into the Forbidden Forest where you enter the second dungeon). Twilight Princess, on the other hand, seriously pads out the time spent doing mandatory errands before the second dungeon in much the same way as the first.

Hopefully I have now made clear what I am referring to when I mention "filler".
 
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