You're going to need to toggle a cvar at most, just like activating MD2s in OpenGL. It's definitely not going to be as convoluted as you're imagining.
Unofficial v2.2 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Wumbo
- Start date
You're going to need to toggle a cvar at most, just like activating MD2s in OpenGL. It's definitely not going to be as convoluted as you're imagining.
tabu
Member
hiding analog from new players inherently assumes that new players are too dumb to recognize if they prefer it or not. if analog was just better-described in the options, it would solve this issue. literally the only reasons new players are apparently just enabling it on a whim are because it's such a falsely-advertised and awkwardly-placed option that players probably don't even know what they're enabling by turning it on. i know i didn't. if someone finds they prefer default after starting with analog, let them just go to the menu and turn analog off. and if a new player finds they prefer analog play, let them easily turn it on. my issue with it being hidden is that it just makes the latter flat-out not an option since newer players most likely won't know that analog exists at all. plus i'm pretty sure most of these examples you guys are so sure of are players using non-keyboard-only setups which of course analog doesn't work well with and is thus irrelevant to what i'm talking about
yeah i agree. i was gonna suggest something like this but figured it might be too much for a forum newbie to suddenly ask of the dev team. analog could definitely be improved and so could the default. i've been trying to hint in that direction but i'm mostly just getting shot down even with my very light suggestions which is pretty discouraging in that regard
because this isn't just about me. though yes, it is annoying that when 2.2 comes out i'll have to go searching for a cvar just to keep playing the game how i want. this is blatantly an inconvenience.
i get that. doesn't make it any less unnecessary
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That's the whole crux of the argument: the dev team has researched thoroughly enough to determine that analog makes a sizeable amount of new players misinterpretate how SRB2 is meant to be experienced to the point that keeping it accessible is outright detrimental. You literally cannot say you're more sure than the dev team in that aspect unless you can prove your amount of players to be significant, and this is not something that will change for just a dozen people, given that just about everyone here says they're comfortable with keyboard-only play without analog.
Again: it's not as complicated as you're making it out to be. You can include it in your configuration file so it's default everytime you start up SRB2, for example. What I think that didn't come across yet is that you, or the people you claim are with you, are not enough to overturn years of collective, extensive research by the dev team on such a slight modification just because it's not that convenient for you.
tabu
Member
..and all the players who don't like it can just turn it off or hell just leave it off since that's the default anyway. i don't understand why making it so players who don't like analog don't have to use it involves borderline removing it entirely. i'm sure someone could set all their key binds to the numpad and make for a really uncomfortable experience, so therefore should we disable custom keybinds? no. that's what options are for.
yeah that's an unnecessary inconvenience that could just be a toggle in-game like it already is. there is no good reason me or any person who prefers analog should have to do this. it's a downright spiteful change imo
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You've been explained a number of times already so let's chew it down: people get frustrated, give up on SRB2 and end up with a bad impression of it because the default controls are not as friendly and when they try analog with hopes that it controls better it fails miserably. Yes, there are people who think it works better, like you, but people who didn't like it most certainly would think SRB2 is poorly made, and they greatly outnumber bonafide analog users according to research, so much that that's why in addition to directionchar and a tutorial to help you learn the controls, they're removing analog accessibility so that people don't immediately run to it and learn better, in an attempt to mitigate that evasion rate.
It's not an unnecessary change, the devs took this decision based on research and the fact that you can easily retoggle it makes hitting this button again border on the petty.
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tabu
Member
oh so new players don't like the default controls? interesting. it's almost like they're maybe problematic for some people and outright forcing people to use them is in no way a solution and is if anything a copout. if new players don't like the controls fundamentally then they don't like the controls fundamentally. forcing them to use it that one specific way only isn't going to mitigate that. the fact that they feel the need to switch to analog in the first place should say something, and that something shouldn't be "oh let's just get rid of any alternative besides default doom controls". brilliant.
i should not need to input a console command every time just to play the game enjoyably. why is this being removed at my expense, even if i am in the minority? again, we might as well just remove custom keybinds now since new players are just so irresponsible and can't possibly individually tweak controls to their liking, and god forbid that also involve an option for a camera that adjusts itself
Alrighty, the toxicity needs to go. You have had it explained a lot of times already, but to reiterate: analog is being removed from the menus to prevent new players from accessing it. This is due to the fact that, in extensive testing and research, new players that use analog almost universally have a terrible experience. New players that use the FPS setup generally have an initial period of about ten to thirty minutes of awkwardness followed by a much better experience overall. You're welcome not to like the results of our research, and you're welcome not to like what we're doing about it. However, we are confident that this is the correct decision to make and no matter how much you complain about it, you are a single person against the data obtained from literally hundreds of people.
tabu
Member
i guess i'm dreading 2.2 now. oof
but i mean i can do some reiterations of my own
but i mean i can do some reiterations of my own
good thing they can turn it off as-is then
well then those people can get used to playing it the default way and just leave analog off on their own behalf. if analog is truly so awful then it's what these players are all gonna do anyway. the reason i keep repeating myself is because using this reasoning to justify outright removing it for new players (and making it annoying to enable for old players) is just insufficient for me. i don't see why this fixes anything. all it does is give people less options, including people who'd potentially want them.
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The good news is: you don't. Some cvars stay saved the way the player left them after the game closes, and those that don't can be easily set in the configuration file to start the way you want by default. We can teach you in detail how to do that if you're actually interested.
The question here is: why are you advocating for newbie players to tweak their whole control setup without even understanding what's going on when you, an experienced player, think it's a huge inconvenience to do something infinitely simpler as setting a cvar once? Please reevaluate that first.
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For the record, back when I was on the development team the disabling change I made to analog mentioned earlier in the topic was to change the name of its four cvar strings. The saving versions still stay enabled between startups if you know what their new names are.
This change was made to encourage all of the people who'd given up on the default control scheme to give it another try, as a number of changes had been made to it that meant it was worth considering again even if you'd written it off before. This is a one-time event, as far as I am aware, and while the development team does not believe analog mode holds any value as a whole, they HAVE publically committed to keeping it in its hidden form going forward.
Hopefully this clears up some misunderstanding.
This change was made to encourage all of the people who'd given up on the default control scheme to give it another try, as a number of changes had been made to it that meant it was worth considering again even if you'd written it off before. This is a one-time event, as far as I am aware, and while the development team does not believe analog mode holds any value as a whole, they HAVE publically committed to keeping it in its hidden form going forward.
Hopefully this clears up some misunderstanding.
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sluggard
Formerly "RomioTheBadass"
It's not uncommon for video game developers to deliberately prevent you from changing some features when they want you to experience a game in an intended way. at least it's not being entirely removed.
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amperbee
thunderdome denizen
what
I don't get the deal with hiding analog mode at all.
It is just "moved" elsewhere so new players and veteran keyboard players (who know what analog does) are encouraged to try out the new 2.2 default scheme for a while before resorting to changing the controls to something they find more enjoyable/comfortable, or with a little more research, enable ol' analog mode, masochist edition.
You seem to be making this issue bigger than it is. The option is just not readily accessible, that's all. It wasn't outright removed and gated behind a hundred commands or something completely ridiculous!
All you('d probably) have to do 2.2 onwards is type a single command (or even type something in a text file for the game to autoload every single session) and you're good to go!
You just waste as much time looking for the toggle on the menus than typing the command in console or typing the command in an autoloading text file.
From the looks of the past few pages, you are complaining about being potentially forced to do 30 seconds of research for a hidden option over being able to analog on 4 seconds into the game.
I don't get the deal with hiding analog mode at all.
It is just "moved" elsewhere so new players and veteran keyboard players (who know what analog does) are encouraged to try out the new 2.2 default scheme for a while before resorting to changing the controls to something they find more enjoyable/comfortable, or with a little more research, enable ol' analog mode, masochist edition.
You seem to be making this issue bigger than it is. The option is just not readily accessible, that's all. It wasn't outright removed and gated behind a hundred commands or something completely ridiculous!
All you('d probably) have to do 2.2 onwards is type a single command (or even type something in a text file for the game to autoload every single session) and you're good to go!
You just waste as much time looking for the toggle on the menus than typing the command in console or typing the command in an autoloading text file.
From the looks of the past few pages, you are complaining about being potentially forced to do 30 seconds of research for a hidden option over being able to analog on 4 seconds into the game.
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tabu
Member
having to more obtusely fidget with something that was more accessibly changeable before is just one of my issues. you're right in that it's not a big deal in of itself but i still don't see why it's necessary. and anyway i think my grievances overall bring up greater issues about how the devs are handling controls (that cobaltbw brought up as well) but no one seems to want to address that. this change still just feels like a forced copout so the devs have to do less and not any sort of change for the better. players are having problems with the defaults as well as analog, but instead of either of those being fixed for the better, the latter is just removed so new players have to force themselves to like the former. it just isn't a solution to me
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I'm gonna end this line of discussion at the moderator level. We're going in circles.
If you have something new to bring up, maybe we can discuss it later. But "the reason i keep repeating myself is because using this reasoning to justify outright removing it for new players (and making it annoying to enable for old players) is just insufficient for me." is basically the equivalent of yelling until it's changed. That isn't happening so I'm stopping the discussion here. It's been explained enough times. Find something else to talk about regarding 2.2.
If you have something new to bring up, maybe we can discuss it later. But "the reason i keep repeating myself is because using this reasoning to justify outright removing it for new players (and making it annoying to enable for old players) is just insufficient for me." is basically the equivalent of yelling until it's changed. That isn't happening so I'm stopping the discussion here. It's been explained enough times. Find something else to talk about regarding 2.2.
Rumia1
Backseat Developer
Ok, last thing about the whole analog thing:
Can you please tell us what the console variable will be called When It's Done™ right now so we can be prepared? As a veteran I've already tried what the FPS control scheme has to offer, as well as what DirectionChar will offer as well and as I still prefer the option, I'd like to be ready to play the game when it comes out.
Can you please tell us what the console variable will be called When It's Done™ right now so we can be prepared? As a veteran I've already tried what the FPS control scheme has to offer, as well as what DirectionChar will offer as well and as I still prefer the option, I'd like to be ready to play the game when it comes out.
It was changed for a reason, which have been brought up in this same topic even. If we told you now then it no one would get used to the new setup since they would have easy reference already on what the console variables are now named, making the whole point moot.