Unofficial v2.2 Discussion Thread

Trailer looks soo good, looking forward to finally play it.

OH BOI HERE IT COMES

Where the heck is the analog movement option!!!
(this setting allowed you to have the camera follow you when moving left or right in an automatic circular motion for easy navigation and pretty much better controls,IMO)
Edit 2: Hard to explain,it sounds the same as default movement,but its different in how its less stiff so you can move around more freely on analog camera.
The default way is nauseating at times because every movement whips the camera around all of the time.
In fact,default is even worse because the camera doesn't seem to even turn for you anymore,at least when checking out the tutorial and pressing N to keep my custom controls.

I ALWAYS use that option,its the first thing I change after setting controls but now its missing,or I can't find it.
I also can't do jump dashes in other directions besides forward,the controls are utterly ruined now with the lack of previous customization options!

Literally unplayable,harumph!

I have a new laptop with G-Sync which would be perfect to play the game on if controls allowed analog movement like the old versions of the game.

Edit: You can't even turn when holding a spindash,you are committed to the direction (always forward) you started it in!

Edit 3 (& Knuckles) : An easy way to see how bad the controls became is to push down to go backwards,hold down and then jump and try to jump dash while holding down to go backwards.
Watch what happens,you go forwards! Forwards when you were holding down instead of going back,how do you make Sonic jump dash or spindash in other directions?!? You can't on 2.2!!!

Retroben said:

Where the heck is the analog movement option!!!
(this setting allowed you to have the camera follow you when moving left or right in an automatic circular motion for easy navigation and pretty much better controls,IMO)
Edit 2: Hard to explain,it sounds the same as default movement,but its different in how its less stiff so you can move around more freely on analog camera.
The default way is nauseating at times because every movement whips the camera around all of the time.
In fact,default is even worse because the camera doesn't seem to even turn for you anymore,at least when checking out the tutorial and pressing N to keep my custom controls.

I ALWAYS use that option,its the first thing I change after setting controls but now its missing,or I can't find it.
I also can't do jump dashes in other directions besides forward,the controls are utterly ruined now with the lack of previous customization options!

Literally unplayable,harumph!

I have a new laptop with G-Sync which would be perfect to play the game on if controls allowed analog movement like the old versions of the game.

Edit: You can't even turn when holding a spindash,you are committed to the direction (always forward) you started it in!

Edit 3 (& Knuckles) : An easy way to see how bad the controls became is to push down to go backwards,hold down and then jump and try to jump dash while holding down to go backwards.
Watch what happens,you go forwards! Forwards when you were holding down instead of going back,how do you make Sonic jump dash or spindash in other directions?!? You can't on 2.2!!!

Click to expand...

I agree, not being able to turn off the thok/glide always going where the camera points makes playing as anyone but Tails on a controller much more frustrating. I want the old behavior back as an option.

Retroben said:

The default way is nauseating at times because every movement whips the camera around all of the time.
In fact,default is even worse because the camera doesn't seem to even turn for you anymore,at least when checking out the tutorial and pressing N to keep my custom controls.

Edit: You can't even turn when holding a spindash,you are committed to the direction (always forward) you started it in!

Edit 3 (& Knuckles) : An easy way to see how bad the controls became is to push down to go backwards,hold down and then jump and try to jump dash while holding down to go backwards.
Watch what happens,you go forwards! Forwards when you were holding down instead of going back,how do you make Sonic jump dash or spindash in other directions?!? You can't on 2.2!!!

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by every movement whipping the camera around but also the camera not automatically moving, the camera never turns automatically so I'm not sure how you get nauseated by camera movement that doesn't exist. You also can turn while charging a spin dash, just rotate the camera. Rotating the camera also lets you thok (or "jump dash") in other directions.

Kilron said:

I agree, not being able to turn off the thok/glide always going where the camera points makes playing as anyone but Tails on a controller much more frustrating. I want the old behavior back as an option.

Click to expand...

It's still in the code, it's just been made much harder to access because analog mode sucks. Like, a lot. It'll probably even be completely removed from future versions of the game. Sonic Team Jr has said they've done a lot of testing and found that universally, people play better when analog mode is disabled and enabling it just handicaps people. If you really can't get used to analog mode, in roughly a week they'll reveal how to enable analog mode, but be warned that it could be removed in any update.

The singleplayer looks, feels, and sounds great. All the new content, visuals, and especially the soundtrack stand out so far compared to older versions.


It's a damn shame the netcode's still the trash heap it is. I keep coming back to this game every few years whenever there's a major update, hoping something cool happens with multiplayer. A speed-based game with constant control lag in every multiplayer session really isn't acceptable anymore.

MY boi Fang is playable. This game is good. I LOVE it!

With more options tinkering,I set camera turning and that is the part that is nauseating when trying to move around.
By far,the worst thing so far is when trying to glide and climb as Knuckles,you have to push extra buttons to re-orient the camera to make it allow you to climb instead of sliding alongside it.

Everyone that wants to keep access to analog movement mode,please speak up.
Big hands on a keyboard makes it really tough to control properly,especially on a laptop.

Its retarded to just outright remove the option for analog movement,I can't even play the game properly because its so damn tough to control because I have to babysit the camera the entire time to get around and slowly turn before I can spin/jump-dash/glide/etc. where I want to go!
I can't just point a diagonal direction then thok over there and I can't immediately climb any adjacent wall.

It makes it a lot harder or impossible to have sharp movement to beat stages in record time because of all the camera movement required in order to navigate.

I gotta gush over this game. They did a FANTASTIC job. I already completed it in my first playthrough, and I wont try to spoil anything (please play through it, it has been a (robo) blast to play through this game).

The music has gotten a complete overhaul (Arid Canyon FTW), there's new enemy designs, and new enemies, in general! everything felt like a blur as I (robo) blasted through this game, some special stages even got an overhaul as well. I loved the new lava effects, the fact sonic doesnt just strafe, but he turns in the directions you press, it all felt more polished and like an actual sonic game. Also, the tutorial is a nice touch, and the intro being redone like it did is a very warm welcome. Just the title screen alone makes me hyped to play this game again.

What the devs did is fantastic, and I hope they not only improve this game, but if opportunities do pop up in the future, they can make more games, because they are doing a great job, and despite playing through the entire game as sonic, I think my journey has only begun... please wish me luck on the night's mode (sakurai pls nerf black hole zone)

---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 PM ----------

The only thing I can say is a downer is the fact mods haven't been released, yet, but that's OK, since people at least get to experience the game in vanilla before they can dive into the mods. Since I was distracted by mods a lot of the time, in the 2.1 releases, I never got to fully embrace the game, so once again, good going, devs. This is the best early Christmas gift you could give!

Just wanted to pop in and say that this game's overhaul is fantaaaastic and I love the new visuals. The level design is also some of the best in any 3D Sonic game, let alone fan game. So superb. HOWEVER, I got hangups similar to what's mentioned above.

Personalllyyyyy, I found analog mode in all previous versions of the game (with a gamepad) to be a lot more fun than playing it traditionally, and a lot easier to play for anyone wanting to play a fun 3D Sonic game. The mods introduced recently that allowed you to aim the speedthok/glide and spindash independent of the camera also were great for that.

So with this version removing that altogether the game feels.. uhh, not the best on gamepad. I understand the want to preserve the Doom-like qualities, but I don't feel like removing those options was the answer. Moving the analog stick making Sonic move left or right completely independent of the camera feels really awkward. Can we get those back? I know most people here don't use these controls, but I found myself really accustomed to them.

Yeah,I used to have a Gamecube controller adapter and use that to play SRB2 with ease since the older versions many years ago,it was perfect with the analog movement and the camera turning with you smoothly when going left or right.
I also had manual camera inputs mapped and only needed to use them when looking around without moving to look for emblems and other stuff.

SCOTT0852 said:

It's still in the code, it's just been made much harder to access because analog mode sucks. Like, a lot. It'll probably even be completely removed from future versions of the game. Sonic Team Jr has said they've done a lot of testing and found that universally, people play better when analog mode is disabled and enabling it just handicaps people. If you really can't get used to analog mode, in roughly a week they'll reveal how to enable analog mode, but be warned that it could be removed in any update.

Click to expand...

I have no real issues with the current controls, playing as Tails. But having the thok/glide always go where the camera faces feels incredibly awkward. That's literally all I want changed.

I was going to grind lives again (to reduce stress on harder levels and copy a save backup,later emerald levels suck because of the time limit and the damage barriers taking tons of retries and can cause rage-quits) but now its pointless with the lack of proper analog movement controls,unless I want to torture myself after hours of grinding for lives then begrudgingly attempting to play it without mah analog control and losing 80+ out of 99 lives due to control limitations.


Edit: I did the grinding on a previous version with the easier controls and could rapidly collect every life in GFZ1 then die and repeat,it only took a few hours from 1 or 2 minutes per grind session.

Really enjoyed playing through the whole campaign, just wanted to say the Zoom Tube leading to exit in ERZ2 is probably broken, I slipped through it and was able to walk normally without being auto-carried like Zoom Tubes usually do.

Character facing movement direction is neat but thok-ing and gliding not going in the direction the character is facing is disorienting, I would suggest making the character face cam direction during jumps to at least make it clear where a character is going to move after performing their ability.

Auto-brake feature felt natural until ERZ2 disappearing blocks section and Metal Sonic Race Floating Platforms above lava section, I kept forgetting that letting go of movement keys deccelerates char speed (even in air?), maybe I just need to get used to it.

RomioTheBadass said:

Really enjoyed playing through the whole campaign, just wanted to say the Zoom Tube leading to exit in ERZ2 is probably broken, I slipped through it and was able to walk normally without being auto-carried like Zoom Tubes usually do.

Click to expand...

I did this to, they really need to update ERZ in some form.

azoo said:

Personalllyyyyy, I found analog mode in all previous versions of the game (with a gamepad) to be a lot more fun than playing it traditionally, and a lot easier to play for anyone wanting to play a fun 3D Sonic game. The mods introduced recently that allowed you to aim the speedthok/glide and spindash independent of the camera also were great for that.

So with this version removing that altogether the game feels.. uhh, not the best on gamepad. I understand the want to preserve the Doom-like qualities, but I don't feel like removing those options was the answer. Moving the analog stick making Sonic move left or right completely independent of the camera feels really awkward. Can we get those back? I know most people here don't use these controls, but I found myself really accustomed to them.

Click to expand...

So, there was a long argument about this in earlier in this thread before release, but you'll notice we went through with the obfuscation anyways, even though we knew it would annoy a lot of people. The reason is that in research figuring out why 2.1's attempts to make the game easier to play failed, we found a lot of systemic problems. Analog mode is one of those things, and it was found to be incredibly problematic to the point that we required this kind of action.

The problem with analog mode is that it initially appears better, as it superficially appears to act like the more traditional SA1/2 style of control scheme, but it doesn't. This means that players who encounter it often switch to it because it's a familiar control scheme, without knowing that it actively handicaps anyone using it. Thus they'd turn it on, get frustrated playing the game because of it, and then rage on the internet about how bad SRB2's controls are while wondering why in hell the game is popular to begin with.

Analog mode is still in the game under a new console variable if you want to dig for it, but I really and truly want to stress that you should only use it as a last resort. I highly recommend giving the revamped default controls a fair shake and give it a few hours for them to grow on you. Depending on how you prefer your controls, the two suggested setups for controller are having the shoulder buttons move the camera while using the stick/d-pad to move, or setting it up like a dual analog FPS with the shoulder buttons doing jump and spin. The first scheme can work well on basically any controller at all; in testing I played through the game, challenge stages included, on an SNES pad and it felt great.

We know that it can be frustrating to be told to do something different that you're not accustomed to, but stick with it for a bit and I absolutely promise you that when the default control scheme clicks, you will wonder why in hell you ever liked analog to begin with.

Ok, I didn't pay too much attention during development, I wanted to be surprised at release, but... hyper levels?? Are those still in development, or...?

Mystic said:

So, there was a long argument about this in earlier in this thread before release, but you'll notice we went through with the obfuscation anyways, even though we knew it would annoy a lot of people. The reason is that in research figuring out why 2.1's attempts to make the game easier to play failed, we found a lot of systemic problems. Analog mode is one of those things, and it was found to be incredibly problematic to the point that we required this kind of action.

The problem with analog mode is that it initially appears better, as it superficially appears to act like the more traditional SA1/2 style of control scheme, but it doesn't. This means that players who encounter it often switch to it because it's a familiar control scheme, without knowing that it actively handicaps anyone using it. Thus they'd turn it on, get frustrated playing the game because of it, and then rage on the internet about how bad SRB2's controls are while wondering why in hell the game is popular to begin with.

Analog mode is still in the game under a new console variable if you want to dig for it, but I really and truly want to stress that you should only use it as a last resort. I highly recommend giving the revamped default controls a fair shake and give it a few hours for them to grow on you. Depending on how you prefer your controls, the two suggested setups for controller are having the shoulder buttons move the camera while using the stick/d-pad to move, or setting it up like a dual analog FPS with the shoulder buttons doing jump and spin. The first scheme can work well on basically any controller at all; in testing I played through the game, challenge stages included, on an SNES pad and it felt great.

We know that it can be frustrating to be told to do something different that you're not accustomed to, but stick with it for a bit and I absolutely promise you that when the default control scheme clicks, you will wonder why in hell you ever liked analog to begin with.

Click to expand...

I get where you're coming from, but I did already put in a whole day's worth of playing it (or more like 5-7 hours) and found it more frustrating than intuitive.

The camera not turning any with left or right movement feels alright on mouse + keyboard since the mouse allows subtle movements and has it's own dedicated buttons for jumping/spinning. But it's extremely wonky on a controller; leaving Sonic and co slanting into a corner of the screen without anything done to help you see what's coming from that way. It now looks like Sonic's facing that direction, sure, but imo it still feels like you're crabwalking your way three steps short of a pit / trap without knowing much the wiser.

Well, unless you ask gamepad users to rapidly multitask the right stick and/or bumpers with the face buttons with relatively less accuracy than on a mouse+keyboard, but that's a little more toiling than it probably should be.. and if we're asking players not to use the face buttons for jumping and spinning, then that's just silly to me. S'a platformer, and a third person one at that. Mirror's Edge this ain't, as cool as that game is.

And having the camera overrule where the spindash / thok / glide I feel should at least be a toggle to allow directional input, no? I mean if we have the options to revert things to the original standard SRB2 format (and thus even closer to shooter controls), I feel like options for the other way around doesn't seem out of line.

For what it's worth, the only trouble I've ever had with analog mode (which continues in the one left over in 2.2) has been how it strips away the ability to rotate or center the camera with the right stick.. which isn't really a problem with how it controls as much as a camera thing! It plays absolutely fine for me otherwise; if not just straight up superior for gamepad control. What's keeping the new camera controls in the new control scheme from being put into that, besides a lack of want to pursue further with it I guess?

I dunno, I don't quite get it. No offense to the work put into how SRB2 feels to play now, of course; for the main intended way of playing it it's the best it's ever been. But it's a hard sell to get others to play this game without them using a gamepad.. and then they still find themselves miffed because the game's design kinda punishes you for using it.

And that kinda blows, you know? But if the insistence is that "if they can't accept the conventions then they shouldn't come at it" then I don't know what else to say, I guess. It may be a Doom mod but it's also a 3D Sonic game, hell, a 3D platformer. There's been like 20 years worth of games, Sonic and otherwise in that genre that's shaped people's taste and understandng to that, and I think that's a fair assessment. Especially when I think this is a very good game with great level design and dope visuals, and I'd really like others to experience it to it's best (including myself).

Idk. (shrug) Guess there's mods to look forward to.

azoo said:

What's keeping the new camera controls in the new control scheme from being put into that, besides a lack of want to pursue further with it I guess?

Click to expand...

Mystic said:

The problem with analog mode is that it initially appears better, as it superficially appears to act like the more traditional SA1/2 style of control scheme, but it doesn't. This means that players who encounter it often switch to it because it's a familiar control scheme, without knowing that it actively handicaps anyone using it. Thus they'd turn it on, get frustrated playing the game because of it, and then rage on the internet about how bad SRB2's controls are while wondering why in hell the game is popular to begin with.

Click to expand...

and it says the message is too short and 10 characters must be entered, so ignore this line I guess

Mystic said:

The first scheme can work well on basically any controller at all; in testing I played through the game, challenge stages included, on an SNES pad and it felt great.

Click to expand...

That's such a cool idea. I want to go find my 8bitdo SNES controller and an HDMI cable and try playing SRB2 on my TV. I'm surprised it had never crossed my mind as an option.