What if we gave Sonic no ability?

OP345 said:
What do you mean by graceful?
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In terms of button allocation you kind of want your game to follow the same general rules when moving in between characters, at least in the sense of "Pushing jump in the air does <something>". Giving everyone a midair ability except Sonic gives creates sort of a weird disconnect where... everyone can do something special except Sonic. I think it's probably better to avoid that.
 
I'm Going to be frank. If Sonic isn't the fastest then i will have no reason to play as him, and other classic Sonic games have given sonic the ability to break the momentum of the game and it was fine that way. The peel out aloud Sonic to increase his speed and break the momentum based physics of the game, but not allowing Sonic to be the fastest will ruin srb2 for me just saying. But alas I'm just one person so no one is going to listen to me.

---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 PM ----------

How about giving players the choice to choose their ability in game like Sonic Mania did.
 
rocklight124 said:
I'm Going to be frank. If Sonic isn't the fastest then i will have no reason to play as him, and other classic Sonic games have given sonic the ability to break the momentum of the game and it was fine that way. The peel out aloud Sonic to increase his speed and break the momentum based physics of the game, but not allowing Sonic to be the fastest will ruin srb2 for me just saying. But alas I'm just one person so no one is going to listen to me.
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Sonic is already not the fastest character. Since 2.2, other characters have completely obliterated his speedrun monopoly, as SRB2 is fundamentally different than other classic games due to being 3D. It's the second time you post on this thread, albeit with the same guilt-tripping argument, so maybe it's time to try another tone?

rocklight124 said:
How about giving players the choice to choose their ability in game like Sonic Mania did.
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This is unlikely. Offering the option to pick between two different playstyles would require us to design levels that cater to both, possibly bringing up more problems than it solves - not that it'd solve anything at that.
 
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Giving Sonic no ability just heavily emphasises as to "why play as Sonic?"

Tails having save jump height, speed, spin dash, and being able to fly just means you would only really want to play as Tails. Sonic does have super as a reward, but who knows if he'll still be as unique even with that. Knuckles and Metal have a super form as well.

Probably the biggest problem though would just be, as Cobalt has already stated, lacking that would make Sonic's skill ceiling minimal when compared to the rest of the cast.

As for the physics, that all sounds amazing and hits a lot of the core issues plaguing gameplay in SRB2. I will say speed can still be conserved in the current game, but relying on frame 1 jumps is tedious so this all sounds great.

I also don't think releasing any Lua of it would be good right now. Them internally testing it is for the best as the sample size and opinions are smaller and more fine tuned than getting the hoards if the interest to weigh in.
 
All I'm saying is without the Thok, Drop dash, or the Peelout Sonic is going to be very weak compared to everyone else. Sonic needs to be faster than the others like in the classic games Sonic had a MUCH Higher speed cap than anyone else. If Tails has his flight then Sonic should have something that makes him worth playing as or he'll fall short to everyone else. Just saying.
 
I think Sonic even having a double-jump esque move (maybe similar to the Jump Thok?) would still leave him faster than Tails or Knuckles. They may ensure better air travel or general cheese, but flying with Tails is slow and gliding with Knuckles takes a minute to really pick up pace.

Anyways I'm all for a double jump / jump thok answer. If we really want to grant thok speeds to the player, the drop dash on spin would be a good answer too? I mean sure you wouldn't be able to use it if you had a shield but I mean.. that's how it is in Mania, too. A fair trade imo.

Just put the thok on Metal or Super. At least OP moves would make sense for them, haha.
 
rocklight124 said:
Sonic needs to be faster than the others like in the classic games Sonic had a MUCH Higher speed cap than anyone else.
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If we're talking Sonic 3&K here, then no, this is false. All characters had the same speed attributes. The 2P race mode is the only area where characters received different stats.

The reason why Sonic feels faster in S3&K's campaign is because, with the exception of the bubble shield, his abilities don't break game flow, whereas Tails' and Knuckles' midair abilities explicitly interrupt or reduce player speed.
 
By the way, about peelout.
It would actually not work well with SRB2, not even because of the control scheme.
You see, in classic games you could keep your speed while running on the ground and jumping (something that happens often in platformers) applies the speed cap. So, you could actually keep the peelout speed in CD. In SRB2 it's the opposite: jumping allows you to keep your speed while running applies the speed cap. You don't get to keep the peelout speed unless you jump all the time (the same behaviour as thokspam minus thok) or specifically program it to keep a certain speed for some time (old Rosy.wad anyone?) which has its own downsides.
 
CobaltBW said:
If we're talking Sonic 3&K here, then no, this is false. All characters had the same speed attributes. The 2P race mode is the only area where characters received different stats.

The reason why Sonic feels faster in S3&K's campaign is because, with the exception of the bubble shield, his abilities don't break game flow, whereas Tails' and Knuckles' midair abilities explicitly interrupt or reduce player speed.
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I get that, but I know that S3&K his speed cap is higher, and I'm not talking about his gameplay. Just comparing him to Tails he is faster in raw speed.

And about his ability how about a Drop Dash that might work.
 
azoo said:
I think Sonic even having a double-jump esque move (maybe similar to the Jump Thok?) would still leave him faster than Tails or Knuckles.
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Sorry to disappoint, but even with the thok Sonic is still slower than Tails. :p Stat equalization did wonders to the "fastest" character, or whatever.
 
rocklight124 said:
I know what I'm talking about.
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If you're referring to the character's "run speed", all three characters have the same speed value. All characters can bypass this run speed through level design, and there is no hard cap to my knowledge.
 
CobaltBW said:
If you're referring to the character's "run speed", all three characters have the same speed value. All characters can bypass this run speed through level design, and there is no hard cap to my knowledge.
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I'm just saying that the Top Speed cap is different for Sonic and Knuckles not sure about Tails. But in regard to Sonic's ability how about making a poll after for a few abilities.
 
fickleheart thought of a thok replacement that I think is pretty neat:
what if tapping the button was the thok but slower and you could hold it to home in on nearby enemies
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She says that the aiming assist would be useful for newbies.
 
I always thought Knuckles was slower than the other two, but you can't compare them easily like you can with Sonic and Tails so I could have been imagining it. Sonic and Tails are definitely identical in speed though. The primary benefit you get from Sonic in S3K isn't in his normal gameplay, it's the super form and the true ending, including an entire final level with a really cool gimmick. Knuckles has his own story, paths through levels and boss fights, Tails is Sonic's easy mode - easier platforming (though one harder boss fight), lesser endgame experience.
 
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