Let's be honest, how is development going along?

Another problem with a code submission would be the lack of programmer devs that could actually review and test the code. Most, if not all, of it would just lie there unused. If you wanna submit code, make an EXE mod and make it be so awesome that the devs wanna use your feature.

Well, that's true, but sometimes things SRB2 needs are either not added to SRB2 (I can name a few things...), overlooked, or mangled. :/

And I thought about the security check thing. Well, if there's an MD5 check, then I guess that means you can expect something new to come soon? :p

Along tot hat though, I'm guessing you could add a few lines like "#ifndef BETATEST" or "#ifdef RELEASE" or stuff like that to the code, so if someone's compiling something for testing reasons, then there'd be some things put in for development and some things taken out (such as the security and cheats, unless your mod includes cheats for whatever reason I woulsn't understand).

Hyper Shadic X said:

Well, that's true, but sometimes things SRB2 needs are either not added to SRB2 (I can name a few things...), overlooked, or mangled. :/

Click to expand...

Do name a few things please then.

Hyper Shadic X said:

And I thought about the security check thing. Well, if there's an MD5 check, then I guess that means you can expect something new to come soon? :p

Click to expand...

The MD5 check has nothing to do with future releases or anything. The game MD5 checks the IWAD to make sure you can't load a modified IWAD, for example with easier levels.

Hyper Shadic X said:

Along tot hat though, I'm guessing you could add a few lines like "#ifndef BETATEST" or "#ifdef RELEASE" or stuff like that to the code, so if someone's compiling something for testing reasons, then there'd be some things put in for development and some things taken out (such as the security and cheats, unless your mod includes cheats for whatever reason I woulsn't understand).

Click to expand...

I think a similar concept is already used in the source, but I'm not an expert on this. Confirm/deny please?

#ifdefs are a pain to use.

Neo Chaotikal said:

Yeah, this is basically the current procedure for developing SRB2's program. You sit in front of the computer and hammer random keys before attempting to run it through a compiler. It takes a few hundred thousand tries before something like the scatter ring is accidentally implemented, which is why SRB2 has taken so much time to get where it is.

Click to expand...

Wait, you're being sarcastic aren't you? So you're telling me that you don't sit in front of a computer and smash the keys like you're playing Whack a Mole to produce solid code? What the hell man?!

Zap610 said:

Wait, you're being sarcastic aren't you? So you're telling me that you don't sit in front of a computer and smash the keys like you're playing Whack a Mole to produce solid code? What the hell man?!

Click to expand...

'tis how the MS was re-coded.

SpiritCrusher said:

Do name a few things please then.

Click to expand...

Talk to JTE if you want a list, not me. :P (but a few things I can name are like, fixes to nojumpspin = multiability (things like this have already been established, I know :V), issues with reverse gravity, the zombie bug (the ones descovered by the Senku and Rosy wads), etc. in that department. However, for thnigs that were mangled, the scaling code is pretty bugged. The sprites can get rrreeeaallllyyy messed up >>;)

SpiritCrusher said:

The MD5 check has nothing to do with future releases or anything. The game MD5 checks the IWAD to make sure you can't load a modified IWAD, for example with easier levels.

Click to expand...

Um, two things.

1) the MD5 check checks ALL the files, including srb2.srb/.wad. That means it checks Sonic.plr, Tails.plr, soar.dta, etc.

2) If the MD5 doesn't match the files you have, that means something was changed in the WAD, doesn't it? :P

SpiritCrusher;687571I think a similar concept is already used in the source said:

Nah, those things were used to seperate unused code like Chaos mode. For example, you'd see "ifdef CHAOSISNOTDEADYET" and you'd get gode relating to Chaos, such as what it does, or defining Chaos and the number of gametimes if "CHAOSISNOTDEADYET" was defined. :P

Click to expand...

Hyper Shadic X said:

Um, two things.

1) the MD5 check checks ALL the files, including srb2.srb/.wad. That means it checks Sonic.plr, Tails.plr, soar.dta, etc.

2) If the MD5 doesn't match the files you have, that means something was changed in the WAD, doesn't it? :P

Click to expand...

Well, yeah, it does check all files (save for music.dta), and yes, if it doesn't match, the file was changed. But how does that mean we can expect something new soon?

Hyper Shadic X said:

Nah, those things were used to seperate unused code like Chaos mode. For example, you'd see "ifdef CHAOSISNOTDEADYET" and you'd get gode relating to Chaos, such as what it does, or defining Chaos and the number of gametimes if "CHAOSISNOTDEADYET" was defined. :P

Click to expand...

I know that. I misunderstood you on your last post, however, so let's just drop that one.

With not only STJr's free time running out, but also the fact that it difficult to edit SRB2(not to mention there is no profit involved, and the general lack of motivation), I have thought about something: Does Dark City Zone really need to be made? Not only is it almost completely devoid of proper textures(current ones apparently are dated), but what would it offer that Egg Rock doesn't? From the sound of it, it probably would be a hazardous, grim looking city stage with a bunch of pits and the like. Unless the dev team has some really good ideas for it, it just looks like an inferior Egg Rock on paper. Don't forgot that many players have already played and completed Egg Rock, so if Dark City doesn't offer much unique, it will feel a bit like a step down from ERZ. And Black Eggman doesn't really need to be in DCZ(though it is true that he was designed as that stage's boss); he seems to fit in fine with ERZ(the "buildings" can just become platforms).

While I'm at it, I'll list the stages that don't exist yet:
CEZ3
ACZ2-3
RVZ/BMZ(?)2-3
DCZ1-2
Real ERZ3
FFZ

That's nine acts missing; five of them being bosses(including the possible Metal Sonic boss, which I can't imagine being the sole boss of ERZ3, unless FFZ isn't a Super Sonic stage), 3 of them somewhat being DCZ. Take out DCZ(as well as place BE elsewhere), and you pretty much only have ACZ2 and RVZ/BMZ(?)2 left as the only nonexistent non-boss acts. Of course, there is still unfinished maps like CEZ1-2 and RVZ1.

On another subject, what is the deal with Blue Mountain Zone anyway? Supposedly, it was simply a proof-of-concept map that got left in 2.0 when it was released. However, BMZ actually sounds like it would be a better idea than RVZ2. I can't think of much that would set RVZ2 apart from RVZ1(then again, Lava Reef Zone managed to pull it off). BMZ however would not only would likely have more unique gimmicks, it also has a ton of textures to work with. Plus, the fact that Egg Rock itself is littered with lava somewhat makes RVZ2 a bit redundant.

Of course, at the end, if STJr is able to pull off DCZ well, I'm all in for it. Though to be fair, seven zones seems to be a good number for SRB2. If it doesn't seem like DCZ could be made unique though(let alone have the time to make the textures for it), it would be better to focus on the other zones first. After all, as stated in the beginning of this post and throughout the topic, STJr is running out of free time and motivation. A simple difficulty increase for the zones before ERZ can probably help smooth out the difficulty curve if there is no time to make DCZ.

Titanium, that is already the priority in the game development. Make the stuff we already have half-done first, then, if there is still interest, fill in the stuff that we haven't really started at all.

Titanium said:

While I'm at it, I'll list the stages that don't exist yet:
CEZ3
ACZ2-3
RVZ/BMZ(?)2-3
DCZ1-2
Real ERZ3
FFZ

Click to expand...

I left CEZ3 mostly done - it should just need the coding.

Over time, I've grown less and less fond of DCZ, kind of like DoomShip. While it's a unique setting, I have had trouble coming up with gameplay elements.

However, BMZ actually sounds like it would be a better idea than RVZ2.

Click to expand...

I agree on this point. We have a very solid and well developed winter theme thanks to the old SRB2Xmas outings, and it's a bit of a shame not to use it. I thought maybe you could exit the volcano at the end of act 1, and it would be wintertime outside.

Waitwaitwait, you start the adventure during Spring/Summer, and then by the time you're at Red Volcano Zone, it's Winter?


Either that or you go across to the other side of Mobius.

SSN probably meant that it is just snowing(it gets colder as you go higher up).

And I don't think much of the Xmas textures actually will add much besides the snow, since Winter GFZ and THZROCK would be unfitting and generic, and the others are Christmas themed(BMZ apparently is just high up the volcano). The new textures like the ones in Icicle Falls and Frost Columns would definitely work though. The sky would probably have to be redone as well, as the current snow field one doesn't really fit the setting. Having clouds covering up the bottomless pits otuside would look pretty awesome.

RVZ to BMZ would make a lot more sense with a well-done transition -- considering the Act number and sudden theme change, people would think of them as being two unrelated levels with three missing ones in between.

Personally, I think that BMZ should be a fire/ice blend, with snowy outdoor sections and interior sections similar to the first act. And for the sake of consistency, we ought to rename it RVZ2. In its current concept, RVZ2 wouldn't be a "red" volcano at all, even if it is still technically a volcano under all that snow...but that could be justified if it still called back occasional elements from RVZ1.

I'm already thinking that some people would try to make the missing RVZ2 (&3) and BMZ1 (&3) levels if the SRB2 Youtube community is anything to go by.


(&3 is referring to what zone name gets the boss act)

I wouldn't say that about the devs[to ice!(getting back on the main topic...)]. If you think about it, they work thier a**es off to pull off a great sonic fangame (not to mention getting internet play is kind of hard!). Appreciate what they have done for people like you and me.

---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------

Cue said:

SRB3, my good man, SRB3...

Click to expand...

Laugh out loud, I bet that would take more than 20 years to finish looking at SRB2 right now!

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

Fawfulfan said:

This goes back to what Ice said; that the dev team is a little too fixed. If only the requirements for becoming a developer were a little less tight, we'd have more--and more enthusiastic--hands to work the thing. Obviously it's a terrible idea to take on any unskilled shmoe, but I think there are at least a few people out there with passable capabilities to be of some assistance. Most notably, I think that Neo Chaotikal and Spherallic would be suited to the job.

It might be easier to choose developers if you also favored a more decentralized approach. What if you picked people for very specific skills--excellent spriting, for instance, or an aptitude for spotting bugs--and asked them to do what they're best at? They would be much less likely to lose sight of the big picture, because they will have been charged with one clear task.

As you so rightly said, many of the original developers are getting too old or too bogged down with other responsibilities. Rather than either continuing to bear the full burden of working on SRB2 or retiring outright, couldn't you become overseers of a larger group? You could still be involved; someone's gotta make sure that the new developers are meeting your expectations, after all. But perhaps the time has come to rethink the way in which Sonic Team Junior is managing the project.

Click to expand...

Well I wouldn't be good at map making but I am very good at editing lumps, making levelselect screenshots, and zoom tubes.

Josh said:

Well I wouldn't be good at map making but I am very good at editing lumps, making levelselect screenshots, and zoom tubes.

Click to expand...

To be honest, none of these are any difficult, and I don't think the dev team actually needs help with things like these.

Titanium said:

(including the possible Metal Sonic boss, which I can't imagine being the sole boss of ERZ3, unless FFZ isn't a Super Sonic stage)

Click to expand...

Metal Sonic is supposed to be the boss of GEZ (Grand Eggship Zone, new moniker for Doom Ship Zone) which would be a single act stage coming between DCZ3 and ERZ1, explaining how Sonic got in space. It would also be yet another parallel between the Sonic OVA, what with fighting Black Eggman right before going head to head with Metal.

Titanium said:

On another subject, what is the deal with Blue Mountain Zone anyway? Supposedly, it was simply a proof-of-concept map that got left in 2.0 when it was released. However, BMZ actually sounds like it would be a better idea than RVZ2. I can't think of much that would set RVZ2 apart from RVZ1(then again, Lava Reef Zone managed to pull it off). BMZ however would not only would likely have more unique gimmicks, it also has a ton of textures to work with. Plus, the fact that Egg Rock itself is littered with lava somewhat makes RVZ2 a bit redundant.

Click to expand...

I don't get it. What's so confusing about Blue Mountain? I'm pretty sure SSNTails has explained the reasoning in the past: like CEZ, not only would it be a waste to throw away a well-established level style from the game, but it also prevents Act 2 from mimmicking Act 1 entirely. RVZ1 still seems pretty incomplete, and any additional fire-based gimmicks thought up should probably be added to it, making coming up with even MORE for Act 2 a royal bitch.

It's also another parallel, this time with Sonic & Knuckles, what with completely changing the color scheme in Act 2 of the fire level.

Fawfulfan said:

Personally, I think that BMZ should be a fire/ice blend, with snowy outdoor sections and interior sections similar to the first act. And for the sake of consistency, we ought to rename it RVZ2. In its current concept, RVZ2 wouldn't be a "red" volcano at all, even if it is still technically a volcano under all that snow...but that could be justified if it still called back occasional elements from RVZ1.

Click to expand...

This is probably the best solution. Keep the outdoor segments as a full fledged winter level, but periodically keep the player going back inside, where there's still the blue textures but not the snow, and lava fills the the bottom of the caves.

Personally, I disagree that the interior parts should even have the blue textures. Maybe a couple of them should, but on the whole I think most of them should look pretty much exactly like scenes from Act 1.