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That Green Echidna Guy/Steel (W.I.P)

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Well then that's too bad. I'll just not release this wad to public. It's not like I'm trying my hardest on this or anything, I don't mind keeping it private. It's not really a big deal. I'm not even sure why I made this topic in the first place. Anyways, I guess this will be a private release.

And nothing of value was lost.

Not really, you can't ignor shit on the floor, due to the smell and the fact that you have to walk around it, but you can COMPLETELY ignor a wad that is in your opinion, bad. :p And ThunderNova, don't let D00D64's words keep you from releasing this, if its too much of a recolor or something then the judges will make the right choice.

Alright, I can (even though you're taking this way too literally), but then again, so will others, regardless of actually being released. I still can't believe how Greeman got in releases, or Nightmare, or Bananaman. But what I can see is that these were all ignored, forgotten, and wastes of time. Why waste your time on something that will just collect dust in releases, being a reminder of how bad some things can be and still be "acceptable"?

Being released =/= being good.

Just look at the above wads, or Tortured Planet. They got in solely because of the "effort was used I guess" judging of the releases section, but Greeman is outright terrible, Nightmare is more-or-less the same deal as this fancharacter, and Bananaman is... Bananaman. Tortured Planet is wildly disputed up and down (While the forums vary, most of us in IRC hate it), and only gets praise because there is LITERALLY nothing else to praise that isn't a port from 1.09, in terms of full level packs. Being accepted by judges means nothing if the community doesn't care.

But the thing is, this "ignore it" mentality basically says to me "No, I will NOT try to make this even SOMEWHAT better, and you can just suck it". This character is just one in a sea of many, and while you say to "ignore it", many, many, MANY others will. And it will still be lousy, even though you may have put SOME effort into it.
 
Just look at the above wads, or Tortured Planet. They got in solely because of the "effort was used I guess" judging of the releases section, but Greeman is outright terrible, Nightmare is more-or-less the same deal as this fancharacter, and Bananaman is... Bananaman. Tortured Planet is wildly disputed up and down (While the forums vary, most of us in IRC hate it), and only gets praise because there is LITERALLY nothing else to praise that isn't a port from 1.09, in terms of full level packs. Being accepted by judges means nothing if the community doesn't care.
They didn't get in just because there was effort involved. The characters have decent sprites and Tortured Planet, apart from the last two zones, at least decent design. It's also not true that it only gets praise just because there is nothing else to praise, it's also not true that most of the IRC channel hates it (honestly, hating it is just as far from reality as loving all of it),but that's another story. We don't really decide what constitutes effort, we decided what constitutes merit. Spot the difference. I know Banana Man is bad, even the creator knows it, but being bad doesn't make it totally worthless.

But the thing is, this "ignore it" mentality basically says to me "No, I will NOT try to make this even SOMEWHAT better, and you can just suck it". This character is just one in a sea of many, and while you say to "ignore it", many, many, MANY others will. And it will still be lousy, even though you may have put SOME effort into it.
Well, D00D64, you can indeed just "suck it", to put it that way. If he honestly wants to make this character, let him make it. After all, it trains his spriting skills. I myself think that all characters without a custom ability are useless because they don't offer anything new, but I keep that opinion to myself. If you don't like these semi-recolors, ignore them. Just because you don't like them, that doesn't mean they're awful.
 
And nothing of value was lost.
Being released =/= being good.
That may be your way of doing things, but if I recall, a wad making it through submissions isn't biased towards if it's a supposed "Recolour" or not, but rather the work put into it, it's originality (I admit double jump is unoriginal), and the play-style (or how the character plays and how different it is).
Now onto the explanation.
In case you didn't notice, the speed was faster than Knuckles, but slower than Sonic. Add the rather slow acceleration and spin-dash. Now add the double jump. You got yourself a completely different play-style.
This play-style teaches players how to control their momentum and not overdo it, as without any way to return from an edge besides the jumps makes it harder to recover. A tight corner can easily lead to a death if the player relies solely on the ability to survive. The player then learns to not rely entirely on the ability alone, thus making him a better player. They can then learn how to beat the levels with relative ease and not have to rely entirely on an ability to survive platforming.

Basically, this whole play-style is a learning experience, but can also be fun.


Double jump and whirlwind shield. The character can now go as high as blue springs. You can advance high places without wasting time at all. Faster than Knuckles and Tails, it becomes a strategy for the player to use: get to higher places quicker, reap the benefits (flags, weapons, shields, etc). This is especially useful in levels like Deep Sea Zone, if the player starts running out of air.

Now add this together and compare it to the miniscule problem of "Looking like a recolour". The benefits outweigh that sole con, do they not?
 
That may be your way of doing things, but if I recall, a wad making it through submissions isn't biased towards if it's a supposed "Recolour" or not, but rather the work put into it, it's originality (I admit double jump is unoriginal), and the play-style (or how the character plays and how different it is).

In case you didn't notice, the speed was faster than Knuckles, but slower than Sonic. Add the rather slow acceleration and spin-dash. Now add the double jump. You got yourself a completely different play-style.
This play-style teaches players how to control their momentum and not overdo it, as without any way to return from an edge besides the jumps makes it harder to recover. A tight corner can easily lead to a death if the player relies solely on the ability to survive. The player then learns to not rely entirely on the ability alone, thus making him a better player. They can then learn how to beat the levels with relative ease and not have to rely entirely on an ability to survive platforming.


Basically, this whole play-style is a learning experience, but can also be fun.

...So it's Nightmare with a double-jump, and instead of using his glide for any REAL form of acceleration or assistance in areas where the slow accel may be a problem, he has a D. Jump, making the game far more frustrating than it has to be, and being a COMPLETE sitting duck and easy Rail target in Match/CTF. Oh, and looking like a green Knuckles. Great.*

Double jump and whirlwind shield. The character can now go as high as blue springs. You can advance high places without wasting time at all. Faster than Knuckles and Tails, it becomes a strategy for the player to use: get to higher places quicker, reap the benefits (flags, weapons, shields, etc). This is especially useful in levels like Deep Sea Zone, if the player starts running out of air.

Oh yes, fantastic, and nothing I can't do with the OTHER 6 characters that know D. Jump, sitting in releases.

Now add this together and compare it to the miniscule problem of "Looking like a recolour". The benefits outweigh that sole con, do they not?

No, now is it not only a recolor of Knuckles, but a reskin of Nightmare with an ability several other characters already know.

*Okay, he loses that spinitem, but that thing was mostly worthless outside of multiplayer anyway
 
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...So it's Nightmare with a double-jump, and instead of using his glide for any REAL form of acceleration or assistance in areas where the slow accel may be a problem, he has a D. Jump, making the game far more frustrating than it has to be, and being a COMPLETE sitting duck and easy Rail target in Match/CTF. Oh, and looking like a green Knuckles. Great.*



Oh yes, fantastic, and nothing I can't do with the OTHER 6 characters that know D. Jump, sitting in releases.



No, now is it not only a recolor of Knuckles, but a reskin of Nightmare with an ability several other characters already know.

*Okay, he loses that spinitem, but that thing was mostly worthless outside of multiplayer anyway


*throws D00D out a window* NITEMARE, not Nightmare. Get it right, also Nitemare is actually faster than Sonic if you noticed, but of course when in water he is slowed down quite a bit due to acceleration; making him have some downside, along with no hurty trail thingy. Another thing, if you ever played the 1.08/early 1.09 version of Nitemare HE originally used double jump. I wanted to have a combination of some sort of flying + climbing, but I had no frames made, nor was any sort of flying + climb available. Once I made the frames I finally gave him glide and climb in late 1.09. Oh and while I'm at it, he used to have faster acceleration than he does not, but was exactly the same as Sonic, so once I sped him up I had to kill some of the gliding and accel.

tldr; Nightmare =/= Nitemare, originally the character had exactly similar stats to this character but is changed a bit now.
 
Okay, D00D, I've had about as much as I can stand. All you do is gripe about how this will be like every other character and NEVER give any ideas on how to make him special. Just like with KO.T.E, you gripe about him being a sonic styled character and griped about the ability chosen, even though my ability was picked to offer something new to the game. I for one, don't mind Sonic styled characters, but I do draw a line on the looks from "recolor" and "edit", this one is close to being a recolor, but at least there is effort put into it. And to be honest D00D, making a character's ability isn't as easy as you think it is without making it OP. I went through many ideas with KO.T.E to try to find a ability that didn't let him totally dominate.

Anyways, with that aside. I say that this does have some hope in it, all you need is a good ability that can be useful. Maybe you could soc a move that would cause him to smash onto the ground a make a shock wave that hurts anyone near him? As for the look, I'll try to come up with a interesting look and post it so you can see if you like it or not.

(Also, I am not trying to start a flare war or anything, if this is a flame bait I will remove it. :x)

EDIT:
steelnew.png

There, got the new look. SRB2 needs more 2 colored eye characters. :(
 
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2 colored eye characters remind me of some freaky anime show though, not SRB2. o.O
Besides KOTE, your a pretty good character maker. Why don't you make one if you say we need more? (no sarcasm)
 
Okay, D00D, I've had about as much as I can stand. All you do is gripe about how this will be like every other character and NEVER give any ideas on how to make him special.

He's already a recolor, how do you make THAT special? If I knew, I would have said something. Adding clothes barely does anything, and I dunno what you would do with the hair/spine/fur/whatever design. The only thing I can think of is "not be a recolor of a pre-existing character".

Just like with KO.T.E, you gripe about him being a sonic styled character and griped about the ability chosen, even though my ability was picked to offer something new to the game. I for one, don't mind Sonic styled characters, but I do draw a line on the looks from "recolor" and "edit", this one is close to being a recolor, but at least there is effort put into it.

Sonic styled =/= Not original

There's a big, big, BIG difference between being "Sonic styled" and just blatantly stealing Knux's appearance and dipping it in green paint, gluing things on him. And any effort in making something like this is minimal. Making a recolor/light edit is like breathing; very little effort or continuousness is involved.

And to be honest D00D, making a character's ability isn't as easy as you think it is without making it OP. I went through many ideas with KO.T.E to try to find a ability that didn't let him totally dominate.

Nobody said character wadding was gonna be easy. It's more than just "put stats here, put sprites there", it requires you to make something worth playing. There's nothing stopping me from just taking Sonic.plr, sticking his sprites in a wad, and making his stats whatever ability I want, and just using that. Hell, I don't even think I need to stick his sprites in the wad. This wad has neither a good skin for anyone to care about, nor an ability we arn't already sick of, so why should anyone play him?

And KOTE still uses that reflecto-thing, right? The one that REQUIRES getting hit, and only has a CHANCE at reflecting whatever it was back to the target, which while making you temporarily invisible at will, is almost useless in multiplayer for the actual REFLECTING part of the ability?

Anyways, with that aside. I say that this does have some hope in it, all you need is a good ability that can be useful. Maybe you could soc a move that would cause him to smash onto the ground a make a shock wave that hurts anyone near him? As for the look, I'll try to come up with a interesting look and post it so you can see if you like it or not.

So you want an already slow-acceleratung character to know a move that would cause them to go to an IMMEDIATE stop in mid-air. Might as well make his spindash feed him lead while you're at it.

steelnew.png

There, got the new look. SRB2 needs more 2 colored eye characters. :(

So you stole Tails' goggles from riders, gave him a scarf & jacket, took Amy's shoes, gave him boat lights, and called it a day. Good job at the whole originality thing.
 
I made a comic about D00D64

shutthefuckupalready.png


I couldn't disagree with you more. First of all, I tried to change some of the colors of the front sprite in the first post to see if it would really look like a Knuckles recolor, guess what:

notarecolor.png


It HARDLY looks like Knuckles. Why did you even say it's a Knuckles recolor? Because it has dreads? And on KOTE's improvement, just because the sprite has white goggles, does it means it's a Tails ripoff? Is Tails a Tai Kamiya ripoff because he used goggles in Sonic Riders?
That's just a bad excuse to complain, and I talked to KOTE, he told me he DIDN'T think of Tails when doing it. Also, Amy uses BOOTS, not SHOES. Not to mention her boots are in a very different shape compared to the shoes.

The character may not be totally original, but seriously, it's HARD to make a totally original Sonic character. Yet, KOTE tries to make it look more unique and you keep saying it's unoriginal. And why you're telling the guy to not waste his time making the character? It's his problem, he can make it if he wants, and making a WAD character will surely improve his spriting skills.

On the "No one's gonna play with this" part, I disagree with you. Just because you won't play with this character, doesn't means others won't. I've already seen some characters from the releases section in servers that I didn't think that people would play with them, that includes the fan characters from the section. I've even seen people playing with TDsunshine's Tails Doll, and you see it's not even that effortful. ThunderNova is pretty much putting effort on his character, even not being a totally excellent spriter, so people may play with the character, and they may not.

If you are so bugged with the character, you should stop telling the guy to give up on it and tell him how to improve the character since you say it's so unoriginal. Like, the planned name for the character is not very original, you could try suggesting a better name to the character.

But if you don't like the character and don't want to help with suggesting improvements, then just ignore it, it's not like you HAVE to play or help with this green echidna character.

You can't just force (or persuade) someone to give up just because you don't like something, you know.
 
This topic is a real kick! Very funny!
I just love how immature most of you posters in this topic are! I'm not going to say names, but all of this over a really bad wad that's probably not going to even be finished? Really? I really hope this is a very late (or very early) April fools joke.

Oh and love the little comic you made GTF.
 
Hey. On topic guys.

Anyway this wad doesn't look that well or that it will be finished as others as said. I suppose at the least it could prove to be some form of practice.
 

Nowhere NEAR enough Dragon Quest.

notarecolor.png


It HARDLY looks like Knuckles.
You shittin' me? It looks just like Knuckles with a Tails tuff on his forehead, blue shoes, and red boxing gloves.

Why did you even say it's a Knuckles recolor? Because it has dreads?

His dreads, proportions, face, hands, and body type. In other words, 80% of him.

And on KOTE's improvement, just because the sprite has white goggles, does it means it's a Tails ripoff? Is Tails a Tai Kamiya ripoff because he used goggles in Sonic Riders?

He also spliced it together to make it even MORE original when piled up on the same, already unoriginal character. It's like dumping trash on a salted wound.

That's just a bad excuse to complain, and I talked to KOTE, he told me he DIDN'T think of Tails when doing it. Also, Amy uses BOOTS, not SHOES. Not to mention her boots are in a very different shape compared to the shoes.

Even if he didn't, they still look like them; too much so for comfort, really. And Sonic Advance also had Amy wear boots the size of normal shoes, and if memory serves, Dr. Pepper's Amy does the same. Hell, Sonic Labyrinth called the slowing down shoes "Speed Down Boots" if I recall correctly.

The character may not be totally original, but seriously, it's HARD to make a totally original Sonic character. Yet, KOTE tries to make it look more unique and you keep saying it's unoriginal. And why you're telling the guy to not waste his time making the character? It's his problem, he can make it if he wants, and making a WAD character will surely improve his spriting skills.

Well, lets take Hinote for example; she obviously shares traits with Blaze, both being a cat, being purple, and having fire capabilities, but they look nothing alike apart from that. Hinote has a form of style mostly her own, unlike greenie here. Hell, just look at Big and Vector; they look NOTHING like anybody else, and Big is a cat like Blaze. Even Metal Sonic, who was designed to look like Sonic, has so many things to set it apart from Sonic that Metal Sonic is still quite unique regardless of being a "copy".

Even if he's improving his spriting capabilities, there's no need to make the over 100 (120? 150?) sprites needed for this guy, and he might as well just try making misc sprites of other designs before finally making something that others may like. I suggest talking it over with other critics (probably best not to talk to me at first, obviously), try other things, try other species, but don't try to make a large wad without even making something that original. Just start slow; you do NOT need to make a huge project like a char wad with a design like this.

On the "No one's gonna play with this" part, I disagree with you. Just because you won't play with this character, doesn't means others won't. I've already seen some characters from the releases section in servers that I didn't think that people would play with them, that includes the fan characters from the section. I've even seen people playing with TDsunshine's Tails Doll, and you see it's not even that effortful. ThunderNova is pretty much putting effort on his character, even not being a totally excellent spriter, so people may play with the character, and they may not.

That's because they're children using them, and we all know how tasteless we were when WE were children. I know I was...

If you are so bugged with the character, you should stop telling the guy to give up on it and tell him how to improve the character since you say it's so unoriginal. Like, the planned name for the character is not very original, you could try suggesting a better name to the character. But if you don't like the character and don't want to help with suggesting improvements, then just ignore it, it's not like you HAVE to play or help with this green echidna character.

Or I could just say to scrap it and do something else, like a new char design, because this just isn't going anywhere. But you know what, I suppose I can try saying something. I don't know how effective this advice will be, since I honestly don't find most fancharacters original at all, but...

First off, don't use any normal character for a base. Just imagine a mostly blank canvas (E, nothing but basic proportions if you're making a"normal" Sonic character, but feeling free to make any liberties) and start from there. Picking a pre-existing species is okay if you can deviate from the species tropes enough (See Sonic compared to modern day Amy), but a new species may prove to be an interesting venture. Never, ever, EVER splice species parts and dub it as a new one, like "Hedgefox" or some crap like that. When defining the appearance, try to stray from something too crazy. Nobody with even a small amount of taste want to play as a guy with spikes comparable to Super Saiyan 42. Clothing is an optional affair, but it can help make that character seem more individual. I honestly can't comment much on this, but I prefer more basic designs over more busy ones, and those fit the Sonic series more.

And When coming up with an ability, it can't be godmoddy, nor can it be incredibly name. This is difficult, but your abilities and stats are an extension of your character. They must not feel like "Sonic with X" or "Nitemare 1.09 with X skin" or whatever, it should feel more individualized for them, and distance them more from your typical Sonic characters. Like I said, nobody wants to play as ANOTHER D-Jumper if they don't try to bring anything new to the table. Hell, Senku is actually more of a D-Jump then a wall jump; it actually spawns a spring if you're close to the wall and a flag makes you "re"spin so you can use the ability again. Simple things like that can actually add a lot to a character.

But like I said, I dunno how much this advice will actually help. Hell, I can't even come up with a good name for this guy. I'm honestly better at complaining then helping, as you have clearly noticed.

goddamn it took me about half an hour to write this
 
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Thanks for that input, D00D64, Even if you aren't good with helping, it still is nice to see some input that isn't just 'Lol recolour this sucks". I am testing different abilities, so you can see a change that will at least try and keep the play-style of "Don't rely on abilities all the time", but currently I am working on making and revising the sprites.


I've also considered an ability where a shield spawns (it doesn't do anything though) when you first jump to tell you what of the regular abilities you will use next, sort of like a mystery box ability, but I don't think that would work so well.
 
Was in the USA on a vication when it came out, didn't have enough money to buy it after wasting over 200$ on Pokemon TGC, burn me plz. I was stupid.
 
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