Why can only Sonic and Metal turn super?

I'll note that one alternative to consider for the purposes of "emeralds doing something" is to make all characters share the same save file.

There is a potential complication of some players running up against a path split before they've learned how character pathing works, but the benefits would be two-fold:
* It preserves character "identity" for the one or two characters we want to be super while making their super bonuses a little more accessible
* It circumvents the need to do the special stages six times in order to get the emeralds as each character, and also makes it so that collecting all emeralds is still rewarding to the player, even if the current character they are playing as cannot go super.

I'd argue we should do this regardless of whether or not we want everybody to be super, since this also has the benefit of making emblems much easier to collect, as you are no longer reliant on multiple save files to find character-specific emblems.
 
CobaltBW said:
I'll note that one alternative to consider for the purposes of "emeralds doing something" is to make all characters share the same save file.

There is a potential complication of some players running up against a path split before they've learned how character pathing works, but the benefits would be two-fold:
* It preserves character "identity" for the one or two characters we want to be super while making their super bonuses a little more accessible
* It circumvents the need to do the special stages six times in order to get the emeralds as each character, and also makes it so that collecting all emeralds is still rewarding to the player, even if the current character they are playing as cannot go super.

I'd argue we should do this regardless of whether or not we want everybody to be super, since this also has the benefit of making emblems much easier to collect, as you are no longer reliant on multiple save files to find character-specific emblems.
Click to expand...

Alternatively, you could just make the emeralds be collected globally so that even starting a new save file for a character starts with your collected emeralds. You would probably need to figure out a way to prevent people from just spamming GFZ to get all the emeralds though. Perhaps have it somehow track which tokens you have already collected and not respawn them until you have at least one cleared save file.
 
CobaltBW said:
I'll note that one alternative to consider for the purposes of "emeralds doing something" is to make all characters share the same save file.

There is a potential complication of some players running up against a path split before they've learned how character pathing works, but the benefits would be two-fold:
* It preserves character "identity" for the one or two characters we want to be super while making their super bonuses a little more accessible
* It circumvents the need to do the special stages six times in order to get the emeralds as each character, and also makes it so that collecting all emeralds is still rewarding to the player, even if the current character they are playing as cannot go super.

I'd argue we should do this regardless of whether or not we want everybody to be super, since this also has the benefit of making emblems much easier to collect, as you are no longer reliant on multiple save files to find character-specific emblems.
Click to expand...

I don't think I like the idea. I imagine that new players may not realize how big the levels are and how many character-exclusive paths there are if the save system didn't nudge them into playing the game multiple times. Character-specific emblems can already be collected in Record Attack without a save file.

Perhaps Sonic & Tails and Sonic-only can be merged into one save, though. Tails can just be a toggleable option in Sonic playthroughs.
 
At least this time, we finally know what the argument against everyone going super actually is opposed to it being assumed we do or just being hinted at.
 
I take issue with being accused of caring less about character variety than being called a vocal minority.

Many of us has stated the desire to provide variety in super forms. The arguement that Super is practically a 4th character in S3&K is valid, if not oversimplified. Which is why people who want supers in SRB2 have suggested ways to avoid that problem.

It feels like our arguements are being dismissed without given a fair chance.
 
Some of us have even given ideas on how to improve super for Amy and Fang even with using the super for everyone mod as the base.
 
For one side of the argument that claims that the other is a vocal minority I was sure expecting to see more people springing up to defend their point. It's surprising that this argument would be kept alive for so long like this.
 
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For every pro-Super forms for everybody here... What's the point?
I personally dislike Super forms more after every playthrough on each Sonic game. I barely transform at all while playing any Sonic game, and I haven't even transformed yet on SRB2 2.2, as I'm still emblem hunting. I don't see the point. It feels exactly like cheating, and it makes 90% of the hazards a breeze. At that point, I could watch a video on Youtube for nearly the same challenge or just use some other cheats like noclip.
Do you really get fun from them?
 
I'll note as one of the few people Mystic's ever directly convinced (mostly) regarding this discussion I've avoided taking part in this topic simply because I'm drained from having had argued this on Discord (and the stress of pushing 2.2 to release in the first place).

I've seen an EXTREMELY good proposal for handling Super forms differently between chad and baby characters (for lack of better terms for differentiation) with different ways of attacking that satisfies even me, though. It was aired in a private locale, and I imagine that feedback will reach the development team directly when the Lua tests are polished, so I won't spill any beans that would be better left unspilled at current.
 
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I dislike the idea of a single global save, since it undermines how well this game does under different playthroughs. The game is already set up under the expectation that a player may be interested in multiple playthroughs, and tries to make that as interesting as possible to do (the entire point of the emblem system existing, why character-specific paths exist, why the level select is unlocked per character, so on). While you could probably do it easily (SUGOI certainly gets away with it), I feel like it would undermine a lot of the current design
 
I'm all for differentiated Super forms. Even when Mystic threw the idea to not give them invincibility on a timer. Whatever ideas you have are certainly better than nothing, any perk to gathering the emeralds is worthwhile.

Whether that comes to be ideas of Super forms as we know them or something else entirely, I have faith in the team to make it good and fun.
 
Knuckles MetalMind said:
For every pro-Super forms for everybody here... What's the point?
I personally dislike Super forms more after every playthrough on each Sonic game. I barely transform at all while playing any Sonic game, and I haven't even transformed yet on SRB2 2.2, as I'm still emblem hunting. I don't see the point. It feels exactly like cheating, and it makes 90% of the hazards a breeze. At that point, I could watch a video on Youtube for nearly the same challenge or just use some other cheats like noclip.
Do you really get fun from them?
Click to expand...

While some emblems might be made less tedious to find/collect with super forms, it's not like that's the only reason people want to be able to transform. It's basically a power trip. For most people, they will have already completed their first playthrough before they get all the emeralds, so it's less of a "cheat" as they have already done the work, and more of just a fun power trip as a reward for collecting all the emeralds.

If someone is skilled enough to collect the emeralds before finishing their first playthrough, it's still not a cheat because they earned that transformation and have the skill necessary to complete the campaign already anyway.

It's not like anyone would be forced to use the forms either. If you don't want them, just don't use them. The same logic doesn't work the other way around. Just because you don't want to use them doesn't mean the option shouldn't be there for others.
 
I'm fine with the current save set-up, but honestly the "global save" issue could mostly be solved if level select wasn't locked behind 200 emblems. The cheat menu, sure, but level select is an extremely useful yet arbitrary thing to lock players out of. I'd just make it a standard unlockable for completing the game as any character, with or without emeralds. Or, you can make it unlockable after collecting x amount of emblems.
 
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I have talked with srb2 team about this "Super" controversy. Nothing anybody says is going to get them to change it to make it fair. I am of the view that if you get the 7 emeralds, you get to go Super, no questions asked. This variety reason and wanting all characters to be different even at the cost of being unfair I completely disagree with. In S3K the characters kept their variety in super forms very nicely in my opinion.

I would love if there was a poll conducted perhaps one that asked:

"Do you believe that once a character has got all 7 emeralds they should be allowed to go Super? Yes or no."

I am certain overwhelming support for 7 emeralds equal super would win out. In the meanwhile you can use mod to correct this injustice.

I would like to point out something about S3K super and hyper forms. If you ever wondered the confusion with Tails super form just know that the Super Tails with Flickies was originally planned to be Hyper Tails. However they changed Hyper Tails to Super Tails to keep in line with Sonic 2 game. Super Tails in Sonic 3K was simply Tails with glowing appearance similar to that of Sonic Mania. I hope that clears up confusion.
 
Knuckles MetalMind said:
For every pro-Super forms for everybody here... What's the point?
I personally dislike Super forms more after every playthrough on each Sonic game. I barely transform at all while playing any Sonic game, and I haven't even transformed yet on SRB2 2.2, as I'm still emblem hunting. I don't see the point. It feels exactly like cheating, and it makes 90% of the hazards a breeze. At that point, I could watch a video on Youtube for nearly the same challenge or just use some other cheats like noclip.
Do you really get fun from them?
Click to expand...

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=GOTTA+GO+FAST
 
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