Why can only Sonic and Metal turn super?

A lot of people, myself included, are into the idea of nonconventional, individualized supers. Like Fang getting his bike. It may have been buried a few times, but most people were happy about the idea, and I hope it comes to fruition. To be frank, it seems like a much more likely solution to happen than getting the devs to change their minds about giving everyone traditional supers anyway.

I don't think this argument will ever die, even if the day comes that a good solution is provided, there will always be people who are unhappy with it. Which is why, even though I naturally hope the decision made will be what makes me satisfied, I don't want the devs to be pressured into a hopeless effort of making everyone happy. That's quite obviously impossible. Personally, I like the idea of "if you don't like it, mod it" because that even applies to anti cheat measures. You don't like that the game won't save when it's modded? Well there's the custom gamedata mod for that too, complete with instructions on moving your save progress over.

As Rob has mentioned, 2.2 isn't a finished state anyway, the future holds any possibilities on what could be implemented, and nothings stopping any of them from changing their minds about things like this in the future. So I wouldn't give up hope. I hope we get individualized supers, but if that doesn't come to pass, then it'd be time to start making individual super mods.
 
Somewhat off topic: I've seen the words "developer bias" a lot lately, like it's some sort of terrible pox on the game. What does it even mean? If it's literally just "the developers have opinions", well, duh? All artistic creators have opinions and beliefs of their own that feed into the things they make.

A little more on-topic: Tails having the Enable Super Pandora's box mechanism disabled in the release build was an oversight. It was originally intentionally coded with the restriction, but it should have been caught before release and I do apologise for that.
 
I haven't seen developer bias thrown around. But instead I've seen the arguement from devs that super everyone reduces character diversity and that those of us who don't agree are a vocal minority.

To that I have these links as counter evidance against shuch claims.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/Kaw1N6vK0Qvr/
https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/a-question-about-supers.39036/


If I may ask, what was the reasoning behind taking the Sonic Lost World approach for unlocking Super for everyone else by requiring people to get all 200 emblems?
 
I read it as a possible solution suggested by Mystic one of the last times this topic came up, and thought it was a reasonable compromise. Nothing much else to it.
 
And a stupid attempt at a "gotcha" post that contributes nothing to the thread is the perfect time to end this. There's nothing more to say that hasn't already been said. We get it, you're annoyed you don't have super forms, but that is certainly not the way to handle it.

The point has been made and addressed. Locked.
 
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Time to bring this back from the dead too since another thread is derailing into this topic.

So, I think just about everyone including me believes there should be rewards for every character for collecting the emeralds. Let's talk about what that should be. Get creative!

As always, please be respectful of others' opinions.
 
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The obvious and somewhat dull way to go is simply just make them all versions of Super Sonic — they glow, the music plays, all of their abilities are given major power boosts.

However it would be more fun IMO if the Super forms had different effects for each, making it more interesting for the player to unlock each Super.

Tails — Maybe you're able to remote control the flickies somehow?

Knuckles — Since he theoretically has the most "Chaos" power as guardian of the Master Emerald, maybe he could have a "Warp" that jumps ahead to the next lamp post or room or to the end sign, but in doing so, it drains all of his rings?

Amy — Slows down time? Would fit her origin and be pretty unique. She's able to be "as fast" as Sonic this way (kinda like the Quicksilver scenes in X-Men or the super speed scenes in the Sonic 2020 movie).

Fang — All of his gun shots are equivalent to Nuke shields but it drains half his rings.

Metal — What if it's like the boss from Virtua Fighter who copied everyone else's moves. Maybe Metal can somehow alternate between all of the above, or it's random.
 
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I can't say specifics, I think it'd be more rewarding if characters got some unique abilities, especially Amy and Fang as super as-is negates most of their abilities. However for Tails and Knuckles I can't see why they can't just use Super as normal, it actively makes their abilities better to boot, it's fun to use them, not to mention already established.

Atm tho, I'd rather everyone just has the option, period, no Pandora Box neccessary. It's optional to use so it feels weird to restrict it rather than entirely making it a player choice.
Also while I understand not wanting to use more buttons, a way to deactivate would be nice as well.
 
I don't mind just having regular super forms and that's it, imo. Just having a reasonable reward for playing through NiGHTS, you know?

...but if we were to take a look at Super Sonic's hover, then I guess Supers would need some differential? So, uh.

Tails - Super Flickies! Gotta pull that OPness to a hundred.
Knuckles - Hitting a wall would send a shockwave to kill enemies. I think 3&K does this?
Amy - i have no fucking idea
Fang - MARVELOUS QUEEN MARVELOUS QUEEN PUT FANG ON THE BIKE
Metal - i have no fucking idea

No, seriously. What would Super Amy even have? Invincibility negates her entire moveset.
 
We're opening this thread again eh?

Then I'll just link back to my original set of suggestions, as I think they're still relevant. While I think my suggestions are a mixed bag of quality, the only one I'm going to ride or die on is the idea of Fang riding the marvelous queen for their super form. The only character I strongly feel shouldn't have a conventional super form is also Fang because he's a materialistic jerk, but good thing the bike is there. (I'd still love for the Bike to be 'pay 50 rings for a 2 hit shield, shoot without stopping and an enhanced pogo jump as I mentioned in the post linked here you see)

Without having to suggest ideas that would fit into the framework of no conventional supers for characters other than Sonic or Metal anymore though, I see no reason to not just give Knuckles a regular super form like Sonic. It ties into him being the emerald guardian anyway. Even if it's lore not referenced in SRB2, it's still a core part of the character so they may as well run with it.
 
Tails - Running speed not increased as much as Super Sonic, but flight power increased to extreme degrees.
Knuckles - Jump + spin does a drill drive that kills nearby enemies maybe? Also ridiculously fast glides and much faster climbing. Again running speed not as much as Super Sonic.
Amy - Hammer allows for wild bounce tricks now, since there's no reason to use it on enemies while super.
Fang - bike bike bike bike bike bike bike bike bike bike bike bike bike bike
Metal - Maybe jump + spin allows for him to do some of his boss fight attacks? Also allow for Super Metal to run through spikes no matter what if he can't already, I haven't tried out his super form much.
 
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As far as Tails and Knuckles are concerned, yeah regular super forms all the way! Maybe Super Knuckles can finally get his faster climbing speed back!

Giving Super Tails the flickies could also be cool. I'm not sure if that would gel all that well with his current gameplay style, but it's certainly worth an attempt and that could very well end up being the key component that makes Super Tails distinct from the other super forms.

Amy though... yeah I've got nothing, but I feel that this is mainly a result of how flawed and unfulfilling her current moveset is in general, but that's a topic for another day.

For Fang, fuck yeah! Give him the bike! Hell, maybe the chaos emeralds is what he uses to power it up? Dunno, just spittin' ideas.

Metal's super form is fine as it is imo, however if his vanilla moveset ends up being altered in the future, I'd be very interested to see how his super from could potentially build upon it.
 
I guess I'll throw my hat into the ring. I think the most interesting part about SRB2's current iteration of Super Sonic is his hover, so perhaps add a jump+spin to all super forms? Especially considering they can't use shield abilities. A concern has been differentiating the gameplay of the super forms, and this could help contribute to that as well.

Sonic:
This'll depend on what new ability he eventually gets, but I think the hover would probably still be a good fit for a double-jump? The key thing is that it doesn't let Sonic gain altitude so his playstyle isn't drastically changed from his default.

Tails:
My first idea was bring back the Super Whirlwind Jump, but... it could be too similar to Sonic's (potential) double-jump, especially if the double-jump is buffed while super. It also isn't that interesting of an ability considering it already exists as a shield and Tails already has a trademark option for ascending. Tails has had numerous projectiles (flickies, remote robots, decoy rings, mechs), but giving him that would encroach on Fang territory. I'm short on ideas here.

Knuckles:
Ground pound or even drill dive into dig? It would give his super form some uniqueness as the only character that can descend quickly and I think would play well with the weight and commitment that comes with his ability set.

Metal Sonic:
Assuming Metal gets the thok, there's no reason Metal can't just use current Sonic's super form imo. With this set of ideas, both Sonic and Metal would have hover, but I think it works in this case. Duality of Hedgehog and all that. Hover would play very different between the thok and a double jump regardless.

Fang and Amy:
These two are special cases - the traditional super form's invulnerability really does not play well with the uniqueness of their characters - in particular, no jump damage. Perhaps even if they are 'invulnerable' they could still get knocked back by enemies. Either way, they gotta have their own thing going on.

Fang needs his bike and I don't think I've seen anyone opposed to that. As far as I'm concerned, this could play exactly like regular Fang (there's even precedence for the bike pogoing) but being able to shoot gun at any time - in the air, moving, whatever.

Amy's a little tougher - she even already has a (very useful) jump+spin ability. I think the hammer jump would be a good start, and thematically it works with her power spring. Aside from that, I don't have many ideas here - she's had some interesting movesets from other games but nothing that seems to jump out as useful for SRB2 imo.
 
Straight up -

Sonic, Metal, Tails and Knuckles should have super forms but Tails shouldn't have his flickies and Knuckles should have his earthquake nuke. I know this isnt specificly canon but i feel like it doesn't make the game an actual cakewalk.

Amy should have the super Flickies but only 2 compared to the original 4 since she is considered the hard mode of the game. But as most people have pointed out shes a tough one.

As for Fang... im not sure. Yes he deserves a Super form but im honestly lost on what to give him. Maybe drop bombs if he is in his spring tail state or MI's Chargeable spring jump?
 
One thing I'd like to see remain if Fang gets his bike would be the ability to bounce on water. It's currently an overlooked ability of super fang due to the requirements set to get super everyone and maybe it could be used for some insane puzzles too.


Now as for how the bike would work, I'm thinking that since people like the idea of shooting while moving it could either stay on the spin button, or move to the ring toss button.

If shooting is moved, that could free up spin to be used for the bike to hover. Useing spin and ring toss would allow you then to shoot in the air.

To retain the pogo bounce, the jump button would recieve no change. Like current supper fang, the bike should be able to bounce on water when moving fast enough too.


Super Amy would be a more basic super form where her hammer attack while running becomes a spring hammer move much like her moveset from Sonic Adventure
 
Okay, I'm still very on board for the bike, but I do also want him to glow and play the music while riding it.
Perhaps one thing that could be adjusted is giving skins super stat attributes so that you can adjust how much going super boosts them.
Also, perhaps things like Ring Drain could be adjustible. A couple people have said the ring drain drives you to frantically rush for rings(I mean, I don't, but I'm not everyone), so perhaps a slower ring drain for those characters might help?
Similarly, if you wanna go a bit further and make thinks like the bike or Flickies of Doom, have a superability option. Far as I can tell, Sonic has hover by default, but you could make it so that is one of the possible things.
As for the overall prospect of making the Chaos Emeralds worth it, I think the ol 'extra final boss unlocked by reaching the end with all seven Emeralds' works pretty well. Just don't make it exclusive to Sonic. Granted, that seems like an interesting conundrum for level select(is it possible to make a level only accessible in a completed file's level select if THAT file has all seven Emeralds? Then again how would that work with Record Attack?)
 
Tails: Maybe like it was when you used super on match in 2.1? Give him infinite flight and super whirlwind flight?

Knuckles: From what I remember in S3K, Knuckles shaked the screen when he glide into a wall so maybe having that?

Amy: Her hearts on the hammer could split after hitting the ground and dissapear after that. On coop when you give a shield to others maybe like a two hit shield like the force shield? And maybe if you hold the spin button to use the hammer she could do a spin attack like in Adventure.

Fang: I guess his gun could be upgraded to a shotgun maybe. And maybe while bouncing or being on the air pressing spin will drop a bomb maybe
 

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