cookiefonster
Wiki Admin
Yep, another one of these zone criticism threads. I figured, why not?
Ever since Demo 4 all the way back in 2001, SRB2 has had Mario-themed bonus content—first Mario Goomba Blast, then Mario Koopa Blast, and now Pipe Towers Zone. Most people seem to agree that Pipe Towers Zone isn't up to snuff with the game's standards anymore; it's rather bland and really serves to showcase why Mario level design simply doesn't work with Sonic, especially not in 3D. The exclamation mark boxes are pace breaking, the fire flower is entirely superfluous, bouncy mushrooms are weird and not that fun to use, goombas are just reskins of the most basic enemy (crawlas), and thwomps (the only other main hazard) feel very cheap and punishing compared to enemies in classic Sonic.
Regarding the fire flower and thwomps, I'd especially like to discuss the considerable difference between classic Mario enemies and classic Sonic enemies. Getting hit by an enemy is extremely punishing in classic Mario: you either lose your cool powerup, shrink down a size, or if you're at small size, you're insta-killed. In classic Sonic, on the other hand, getting hit by an enemy simply makes you lose all your rings (or shield if you're wearing one), unless you have no rings, in which case you're killed. This means that if you're hit by an enemy in classic Sonic, it's not a huge deterrence because you can pick up your rings if needed, and then keep going through the level. This means two important things: (1) dealing with enemies really isn't a big priority in classic Sonic, especially not SRB2, and (2) you need to be careful with hazards that can instantly kill the player if you don't want them to just feel cheap. This is why it's somewhat puzzling to me that three of the SRB2 shields' active abilities (attraction, elemental, armageddon) are focused on dealing with enemies, but that's a matter of discussion for another thread.
I'd like to ask a question that was discussed some on the SRB2 Discord today: do you still think Mario-themed content still warrants being in SRB2? I think it doesn't really, especially because since 2.2 was released the game has become considerably more professional and polished, but I'm not sure I want the great remixes of Mario music (especially the incredibly groovy remix of the underground theme) to go to waste. I am aware of Dave Lite's Pipe Towers revamp, which is an enormous upgrade to the original Pipe Towers both in visual design and gameplay, but would still be weird to have in SRB2 due to all the reasons I had already said.
Ever since Demo 4 all the way back in 2001, SRB2 has had Mario-themed bonus content—first Mario Goomba Blast, then Mario Koopa Blast, and now Pipe Towers Zone. Most people seem to agree that Pipe Towers Zone isn't up to snuff with the game's standards anymore; it's rather bland and really serves to showcase why Mario level design simply doesn't work with Sonic, especially not in 3D. The exclamation mark boxes are pace breaking, the fire flower is entirely superfluous, bouncy mushrooms are weird and not that fun to use, goombas are just reskins of the most basic enemy (crawlas), and thwomps (the only other main hazard) feel very cheap and punishing compared to enemies in classic Sonic.
Regarding the fire flower and thwomps, I'd especially like to discuss the considerable difference between classic Mario enemies and classic Sonic enemies. Getting hit by an enemy is extremely punishing in classic Mario: you either lose your cool powerup, shrink down a size, or if you're at small size, you're insta-killed. In classic Sonic, on the other hand, getting hit by an enemy simply makes you lose all your rings (or shield if you're wearing one), unless you have no rings, in which case you're killed. This means that if you're hit by an enemy in classic Sonic, it's not a huge deterrence because you can pick up your rings if needed, and then keep going through the level. This means two important things: (1) dealing with enemies really isn't a big priority in classic Sonic, especially not SRB2, and (2) you need to be careful with hazards that can instantly kill the player if you don't want them to just feel cheap. This is why it's somewhat puzzling to me that three of the SRB2 shields' active abilities (attraction, elemental, armageddon) are focused on dealing with enemies, but that's a matter of discussion for another thread.
I'd like to ask a question that was discussed some on the SRB2 Discord today: do you still think Mario-themed content still warrants being in SRB2? I think it doesn't really, especially because since 2.2 was released the game has become considerably more professional and polished, but I'm not sure I want the great remixes of Mario music (especially the incredibly groovy remix of the underground theme) to go to waste. I am aware of Dave Lite's Pipe Towers revamp, which is an enormous upgrade to the original Pipe Towers both in visual design and gameplay, but would still be weird to have in SRB2 due to all the reasons I had already said.
