What do you want map97 to be like?
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furythehog
The Emblem Guy!
MEADOW MATCH ZONE WITH NEW TEXTURES! *shot*
Personally, i think it'll wind as a dark city themed map, on the basis of the match rotation matching the single player, for the most part anyway.
Personally, i think it'll wind as a dark city themed map, on the basis of the match rotation matching the single player, for the most part anyway.
That was much truer of v1.09.x than v2.0.x. Now, some of the maps aren't that closely related.
Jade Valley - Greenflower
Noxious Factory - Techno Hill
Tidal Palace - Deep Sea
Thunder Citadel - Castle Eggman
Arid Canyon - Desolate Twilight
Infernal Cavern - Red Volcano
Frost Columns - Blue Mountain
I find all of these to be very closely related. In 1.09.4 however, the second map was CEZ-themed, the third one was desert-themed despite there being no SP desert map etc. I don't know what you're talking about, to be honest.
Sun
Member
MAP96 and MAP97 were supposed to be the match counter parts of Dark City and Egg Rock, respectively. However, Frost Columns now uses MAP96, so either it would have to get moved up to 98, or Blue Mountain Zone(a suitable counterpart to FCZ) may actually be getting made. After all, it would be easier to, and would offer more than Dark City(Egg Rock already acts as the "Eggman's base" level, plus Dark City could still work as a one-act zone housing Black Eggman).
Meadow Match is supposed to be "retro," as it is an very old, but still somewhat decent map. Hence why it looks "dated."
The jungle texture would actually work well with Jade Valley, perhaps even GFZ itself. Honestly, GFZ and THZ are both dated, generic(especially GFZ), and look too similar to each other.
Meadow Match is supposed to be "retro," as it is an very old, but still somewhat decent map. Hence why it looks "dated."
The jungle texture would actually work well with Jade Valley, perhaps even GFZ itself. Honestly, GFZ and THZ are both dated, generic(especially GFZ), and look too similar to each other.
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Meadow Match is not just an old level, it's the oldest level. It was the first level created to test the 'new' Match gametype.
GFZ looks fine. You might argue that you're sick of it due to 50% of the levels before 2.0 looking like it, but there is nothing wrong with that level's aesthetics. Personally I would be really sad if Jade Valley lost its GFZ theme, because it looks very pretty.
GFZ looks fine. You might argue that you're sick of it due to 50% of the levels before 2.0 looking like it, but there is nothing wrong with that level's aesthetics. Personally I would be really sad if Jade Valley lost its GFZ theme, because it looks very pretty.
You mean you think the beginning of GFZ2, with all those tall, blending walls, looks good?
Yes
EDIT: Well, let me expand on that a bit.
I think the entirety of GFZ looks great, and very unique and characteristic. In certain places, it seems outdated at worst, mostly due to weird and unnatural level design, like various areas having sharp protrusions and stuff in general being a wee bit weirdly shaped. The only part I would qualify as being "ugly" is the cave at the end of GFZ2, because it's long and boring and uses the same checker texture for all the surfaces. The lighting effects at the entrance work well enough to keep it interesting, but after the jump over the gap it just looks bland.
tl;dr I think GFZ looks fine as is. There are levels with much greater need for a graphical lift. DSZ in particular looks very 1999.
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To add onto this, you guys are currently on track to abuse the CLIFFx textures into oblivion as well. By the time 2.1 comes out those will be the most overused textures in the IWAD.
Also, anyone who is implying that the match rotation REALLY has anything to do with the single player rotation, you're incorrect. I did indeed try to get a stage for each single player stage's concept, but that wasn't because I wanted to mirror the single player. Instead, it was because I wanted to have as much texture variety as possible in the match stages, to make sure that everything felt different from each other. This is to avoid 1.X's problem of having so many of the stages look really similar. The only stages that share a texture set are Jade Valley and Meadow Match (and partially Noxious Factory, but that's only in half the map). Those two stages have such a dramatically different architecture that it's not a big deal.
I just want Map97 to be the best map ST Jr. can put there. I think when development of 2.0.7, 2.1, or whatever gets closer to completion we'll have a better idea of the maps that are even in the running for that spot.
Also, I can't force myself to make a good map when all I have in mind is a theme. I really have to come up with a good (at least in my mind) idea at random and apply a theme to it. I don't know how Mystic, Blade, or KOTE do it, but that's how I have to.
Though you have seen the poor maps that come from me, so maybe that's not true for good mappers like them.
Also, I can't force myself to make a good map when all I have in mind is a theme. I really have to come up with a good (at least in my mind) idea at random and apply a theme to it. I don't know how Mystic, Blade, or KOTE do it, but that's how I have to.
Though you have seen the poor maps that come from me, so maybe that's not true for good mappers like them.
Well, my process is generally just coming up with an idea, drawing it out, and then executing it.
To use this as an example, here's the diagram for Tidal Palace, probably the most themed map we have, on paper: http://mystic.sepwich.com/image/scans/Scan_Pic0002.jpg
This was drawn out before the SRM/WRM system was implemented, so here are what the abbreviations mean:
1F/2F/B1 - floors
SR - Super Ring
*W - Weapon panels. (AW = automatic, etc.)
RM - Random monitor (At this point in development, we were actually using the ? box as our only random monitor type)
What you'll notice by looking at the basic design layout, though, is that the stage gimmick really doesn't have much to do with the layout. The layout was designed with water in mind, but it isn't like the entire stage is built around the gimmick. It's just a normal stage the floods every once and a while.
You'll notice a huge amount changed in development as opposed to design. The water flow gimmick in the original is shown with the drains and waterfalls (originally the idea is that the players in the game could actually control the water flow by destroying things blocking the input and output). There was an additional (boring) passage on the west end of the map, that was replaced with the passage in the water next to the automatic tile because the stage felt too large. A lot of minor details in the rooms were changed because it felt too uninteresting and uninspired. Also, almost ALL the weapon locations were moved, and so was what became the SRM.
The REAL key to making sure your level plays well is tons and tons of repetitive testing. I'm pretty sure we played this stage upwards of 100 times back in testing to make sure it played well, tweaking the item locations and sector layout to fit with the problems found in the playtesting. It's a lot of work but it does result in a better end product.
To use this as an example, here's the diagram for Tidal Palace, probably the most themed map we have, on paper: http://mystic.sepwich.com/image/scans/Scan_Pic0002.jpg
This was drawn out before the SRM/WRM system was implemented, so here are what the abbreviations mean:
1F/2F/B1 - floors
SR - Super Ring
*W - Weapon panels. (AW = automatic, etc.)
RM - Random monitor (At this point in development, we were actually using the ? box as our only random monitor type)
What you'll notice by looking at the basic design layout, though, is that the stage gimmick really doesn't have much to do with the layout. The layout was designed with water in mind, but it isn't like the entire stage is built around the gimmick. It's just a normal stage the floods every once and a while.
You'll notice a huge amount changed in development as opposed to design. The water flow gimmick in the original is shown with the drains and waterfalls (originally the idea is that the players in the game could actually control the water flow by destroying things blocking the input and output). There was an additional (boring) passage on the west end of the map, that was replaced with the passage in the water next to the automatic tile because the stage felt too large. A lot of minor details in the rooms were changed because it felt too uninteresting and uninspired. Also, almost ALL the weapon locations were moved, and so was what became the SRM.
The REAL key to making sure your level plays well is tons and tons of repetitive testing. I'm pretty sure we played this stage upwards of 100 times back in testing to make sure it played well, tweaking the item locations and sector layout to fit with the problems found in the playtesting. It's a lot of work but it does result in a better end product.
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