Suggestions

Frostav said:
I understand the devs reasoning for no longer including official circuit maps--Sonic is too strong in them--but why can't a race server simply default to randomizing which character each race lets the players use (of course, with a console variable to disable this and allow free character choice).

I'm a very big fan of the basically-dead Motorstorm series, a series which I feel has surprising similarities to Sonic in that both are series which emphasize complex multi-layered level design combined with distinct characters (vehicle classes in Motorstorm's case) which have distinct routes throughout each level to take, in genres that normally don't do that kind of thing. Bikes and ATV's could take thin higher routes, rally cars and racing trucks took flat middle routes, and big rigs and monster trucks took bottom routes full of slippery mud and other things the other classes couldn't handle. Of course there's the problem of balancing, a thing Evolution Studios got around by simply having the game randomize which classes players could use each race (at least in Apocalypse? I think the others did too). Like, Pacific Rift had the exact same problem as SRB2 in that Monster Trucks IIRC were just blatantly better than every other class in almost every way, but it wasn't a problem there since oftentimes you just didn't get to use them. So, if everyone has to play Knuckles in a race, the problem of Sonic just thokking his way to victory is completely sidestepped.


And while you may say that limiting player choice like this is bad, I feel that the strength of Classic Sonic--and thus a strength of SRB2--is the variety that the multi-layered level design and highly differentiated routes each characters can and often must take. One netgame race you're flying high as tails--later on the same course you're instead gliding and breaking through walls as Knuckles.

I dunno. I just love the idea of racing people in this game on dedicated maps for it and yes, I know, SRB2 Kart exists but...I wanna platform, ya know. I feel there's a way to make it work.
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I think the concept of Race in general ought to be reconsidered a little bit. It's inevitable that some characters are going to be stronger than others on a level, and I think forceskinning random characters isn't the most graceful solution.

But I do think we can draw some inspiration from SRB2 Kart and the way that the Mario Kart formula handles items. Random monitors would be of much greater value if the items they grant is dependent on that player's current placement within the level. E.G. players leading would get "weak" items that don't advance their placing very much like 10-ring monitors and force shields, whereas players in last would get "strong" items like teleporters and speed shoes, etc.

I don't know if that would be enough to fix circuit, but race as a mode is really struggling in general right now, and changes like this might help increase its popularity.
 
Quick suggestion for Amy gameplay since it got me a few times when playing just now.
If Amy's in her grounded hammer state and would pass into a "flashing" boss/enemy, make her bounce of them please? Since the hearts from her hammer on the ground can hit enemies, I had a few times where the hearts would connect, then I'd continue drifting into the boss/enemy and take damage.
 
CobaltBW said:
I think the concept of Race in general ought to be reconsidered a little bit. It's inevitable that some characters are going to be stronger than others on a level, and I think forceskinning random characters isn't the most graceful solution.

But I do think we can draw some inspiration from SRB2 Kart and the way that the Mario Kart formula handles items. Random monitors would be of much greater value if the items they grant is dependent on that player's current placement within the level. E.G. players leading would get "weak" items that don't advance their placing very much like 10-ring monitors and force shields, whereas players in last would get "strong" items like teleporters and speed shoes, etc.

I don't know if that would be enough to fix circuit, but race as a mode is really struggling in general right now, and changes like this might help increase its popularity.
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Speaking of teleporters, make sure that the players that are swapped get the other player's check point count too.
 
CobaltBW said:
I think the concept of Race in general ought to be reconsidered a little bit. It's inevitable that some characters are going to be stronger than others on a level, and I think forceskinning random characters isn't the most graceful solution.

But I do think we can draw some inspiration from SRB2 Kart and the way that the Mario Kart formula handles items. Random monitors would be of much greater value if the items they grant is dependent on that player's current placement within the level. E.G. players leading would get "weak" items that don't advance their placing very much like 10-ring monitors and force shields, whereas players in last would get "strong" items like teleporters and speed shoes, etc.

I don't know if that would be enough to fix circuit, but race as a mode is really struggling in general right now, and changes like this might help increase its popularity.
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Understandable, though I don't know why you think forceskinning random characters. I think that would help the variety since every race wouldn't just boil down to "pick the best character" and then every single race on any one given circuit is the exact same.
 
CobaltBW said:
I think the concept of Race in general ought to be reconsidered a little bit. It's inevitable that some characters are going to be stronger than others on a level, and I think forceskinning random characters isn't the most graceful solution.

But I do think we can draw some inspiration from SRB2 Kart and the way that the Mario Kart formula handles items. Random monitors would be of much greater value if the items they grant is dependent on that player's current placement within the level. E.G. players leading would get "weak" items that don't advance their placing very much like 10-ring monitors and force shields, whereas players in last would get "strong" items like teleporters and speed shoes, etc.

I don't know if that would be enough to fix circuit, but race as a mode is really struggling in general right now, and changes like this might help increase its popularity.
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Another thing we could do to make Race better is have certain race maps use more than 4 laps at maximum to make race even more balanced. I’m thinking that long race maps would have small amount of laps while short race maps would have large amount of laps.
 
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Frostav said:
Understandable, though I don't know why you think forceskinning random characters. I think that would help the variety since every race wouldn't just boil down to "pick the best character" and then every single race on any one given circuit is the exact same.
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Because we want to give players the freedom to play the game in their own way whenever possible. I mean, everyone picking random in Super Smash Bros. Brawl tournaments will definitely prevent Metaknight from being picked all of the time, but what if the player wants to choose a specific character that *isn't* Metaknight?

All random would be fun as a race sub setting, so I'm not against that as an option -- but it's not a proper substitution for game balance, and I'd be careful of treating it as one.
 
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I had a bunch of suggestions I wanted to post here, but instead of making each an individual post (like I've been doing, all of which were ignored),
so I might as well put them into a compilation of sorts. Some I came up with, others I saw talked about in Discord and such and liked.

  • Remove Knuckles' crouch. It breaks the flow, it's frustrating, Knuckles is a chore to play as he is right now. This has been discussed in the Discord server several times. Very few people actually like this "addition".
  • An unlockable alternative to special stages for people who are trash at NiGHTS, especially considering there are actual rewards behind Emeralds. For example, the old 2.0 stages are already in the game. They may not have aged well but it's at least something. Not to mention the potential for adding emblems and record attacks to them as well. (This is more of a biased opinion, since I haven't come across anything that is less enjoyable than the NiGHTS stages ever since Spring Hill was a thing in 1.09.4. It's not like it has to be the 2.0 special stages considering you're planning to remove them anyway, but they're the closest thing right now that could work as an alternative. Frankly I'd take anything over attempting current SS5-7 ever again.)
  • Add sprites for horizontal springs that have an Eggman face on them to signify danger so players can avoid cheap shots into cacti when they're unassumingly exploring and see springs leading somewhere. (Such an idea already comes from existing Sonic games, so why not do something similar here?)
  • Some very minor idea: No-hit emblems for record attack. Exactly what it says on the tin. Another potential way of collecting emblems to unlock the hints or radar before going off hunting blindly. It's also what the score emblems basically are about on boss stages, so might as well replace those.
  • Good god, please lower the requirement for unlocking universal Level Select from all emblems to some realistic amount. 200 emblems for such a thing is nonsensical, as by the time you get there you'd have cleared save files for all characters. (That or put it behind a cheat. That's what the classic games do, anyway.)
  • This isn't really a suggestion but more of an observation, but not giving Amy her winter clothes from Mania Adventures in her FHZ cameo was a missed opportunity if you ask me. (Don't actually take this one too seriously, that's why it's at the end of the list. I imagine spriting that just for a detail 99% of people would miss anyway would be a pain.)
  • Oh yeah, speaking of Amy. Have her smack you across the lake if you hit her too many times. That would be amusing, right?
 
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CobaltBW said:
Because we want to give players the freedom to play the game in their own way whenever possible. I mean, everyone picking random in Super Smash Bros. Brawl tournaments will definitely prevent Metaknight from being picked all of the time, but what if the player wants to choose a specific character that *isn't* Metaknight?

All random would be fun as a race sub setting, so I'm not against that as an option -- but it's not a proper substitution for game balance, and I'd be careful of treating it as one.
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I see. I just wanted provide an example of how another series, one which I loved a lot and had surprising similiarities to Sonic, handled the problem. But I can understand what you mean.
 
Remove Knuckles' crouch. It breaks the flow, it's frustrating, Knuckles is a chore to play as he is right now. This has been discussed in the Discord server several times. Very few people actually like this "addition".
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I am one of those very few people then, I suppose, I think it makes sense for it to happen and personally I always found Knuckles easier to play than Tails, so balancing him out with this minor change feels right.

Some very minor idea: No-hit emblems for record attack. Exactly what it says on the tin. Another potential way of collecting emblems to unlock the hints or radar before going off hunting blindly. It's also what the score emblems basically are about on boss stages, so might as well replace those.
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I agree with this, it would be easier to collect than the former score emblem and still challenging enough, and more importantly it would actually be fun.

One suggestion I'd have is making the characters a little less helpless when grabbed by the pterodactyl enemies in RVZ, I know it's a stage that is quite late in the campaign so it has to be hard, but there's a difference between hard and unfair, and that's what that enemy kinda feels right now, it's like someone covers your eyes for a couple of seconds and you end up in some random lava pit.
 
I think testclients would be useful.
One example of where they have been used before is Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, where they are almost exactly like real players (Appear in the scoreboards, can be fragged and make it count as an actual frag) and can be controlled from QuakeC. No functions for player-like movement were included, but simply moving them by changing their velocity and position proved good enough. If they get added in SRB2 though, a way to properly control them (Like functions for "pressing" keys) would be really good.
They could be added from both a console command and from a QuakeC function.

This would be really good for realistic lua bots, and various tricks too like maybe target training for Match, or Sonic & Tails-like companions for online multiplayer.
I think the basics are already there, since splitscreen multiplayer kinda works like this AFAIK.
 
MaykeAdventuresZForever said:
1. Add a Save Game & Load Game option like in the 1.X and 0.X versions. You can unlock this after beating a stage and you can only use it on already beated stages.

2. The Savedata from Old Games should be compatible with the New Releases (Example: I got my 2.1 Save File and i want to use it on 2.2. So when i load the game, all my Emblems and Save Files would come back.)

3. Super Compatibility: All Characters can transform into Super and they have their own Colors.


Well, at least that's what i think it should be nice on the Next Update. (If will exist one at least)
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1. Not happening as the system was replaced with a Sonic 3/Mania Style system
2. Really not going to happen due to compatibility issues with available levels, what emblems can be obtained, and the unlockables you get.
3. Join the topic and make your voice heard
 
I understand that SDL2 is used as the "platform API" of the game, regarding inputs and such. If it hasn't been thought of or done already, could the game provide support for using the SDL Gamepad API instead as the API used for controller inputs, and allow for people to choose which input system is used (gamepad API vs joystick API). This would work out well for allowing consistent inputs across controllers and axis that are used, instead of the somewhat inconsistent buttons and axis across controllers being utilized.
 
Oooooh, so that's what it does now? I thought it was changed to giving the player score instead of rings if they have all the emeralds (though now that I went back to check, they always give score and I just never noticed it before). I think it could be made a little clearer.
 
It does the continue sound effect, although probably some people aren't familiar with that SFX enough to know that's what it means, since it's only through familiarity with the franchise that you'd know.
 
Huh. I pay so little attention to Emerald Tokens normally that I never noticed they got a different sound effect when picked up after collecting all the emeralds. That's my bad, then.
 
I do already know that if picking up an emerald token while having all the chaos emeralds, that the sound effect is in fact the continue sound and I’m extremely familiar with that since I’ve heard this a lot ever since I started playing Sonic. Anyways, I do like that new and replacement feature of the emerald token.
 
The tokens being changed to give continues were overkill, IMO. I think the continue mechanics that were set in place such as the increasing starting lives and the ease of racking up continues in special stages already helped a lot to make the lategame a little more accessible. Most people who already have all emeralds are at the point not to where they need continues, but that they need rings. Not only does the new continue behavior replacing the 50 rings bonus discourage me from seeking the tokens out after I've found all emeralds, but it means I can't take advantage of them in netplay, where rings are already tight when trying to maintain super.

Maybe I'm wrong and there's someone out there who needed the continues from tokens, but it seems pretty unlikely to me, and I feel like the removal of the 50 rings bonus negatively impacts the collectible in the late/end game in ways where it really counts.
 
The actual reason is because of the longer-term goal to make it such that you can get record attack emblems in normal play. Thus the extra 50 rings was a problem. Continues happen to also be unobtainable otherwise after collecting all the emeralds, so it seemed like the right replacement.
 
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