On the future of the thok.

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Goldenhog

Wandering Protagonist
So, as we all already know, slopes are entering the game. I consider this to be an amazing thing, since now there's not only a lot more options open in regards to level decoration, but also (and more importantly) for gameplay. Like the DSZ gif, where Tails just spins down a tunnel gaining momentum as he goes, or the new ACZ pic with sloped rope pulleys. Now we can make a small slope, charge a spindash, let go, jump while on the slope, and just fly over everything. That's going to be a lot of fun.

Which brings me to the question I wanted to ask. How does the thok factor into this? Unlike the spindash, the thok gives Sonic a sudden burst of ridiculous speed instantly, and at no additional cost. Which means Sonic can take advantage of slope jumps whenever he pleases. Which means Sonic becomes THAT much more powerful, since he can use the terrain to much better effect than Tails and Knuckles can. Hell, it probably would be very easy for Sonic to bypass chunks of levels if a slope is put in the wrong spot, so that's a thing too. Given all this, it just makes me wonder what will become of the thok.

So what do you guys think? Should the thok be nerfed so that it plays nicer with the new slopes? Or should it be outright replaced? And what should it be replaced with? I myself would like to see a return of the shield abilities, although that presents its own issues since the Whirlwind Shield would have to be made useless for that to work.

I'm sure the devs have something figured out already, but conversation never killed anybody.
 
Sorry to debunk this sooner than the devs would, but the devs (Mystic specifically) are not changing Sonic's ability from the thok, the thok nerf though, I'm not truly sure, maybe they might weaken it, but hey, if it IS too OP, then an update could fix that quickly on 'Release Panic Day'. =P
 
We have no plans to nerf the thok in single player as of now. Even with the advent of slopes, the benefit it offers is a somewhat decent gain in height. All characters can still gain a lot more height from spindash jumping off of slopes as well.
 
Any slope that would give a noticeable jump height benefit slows a thokking Sonic down to normal running speed almost instantly upon landing. Like, I've tested it, and thokking into a slope of even ~20 degrees and then immediately jumping sends you no higher than just running up said slope and jumping. This wasn't even anything that the physics were tweaked to handle; it just happened naturally when the physics were put in place.

Now, spindash-jumping, with the current 90-thrust spindash, can send you literally thousands of units high right now if the slope is steep enough. But that's why we're going to nerf spindash. :)

But really, handling things like that is up to the level designer. Super-steep slopes that give you extreme jumps can be fun if done right! Just as they can easily be abused to skip whole sections of levels if you aren't careful. It's another thing to be conscious about when mapping.
 
So the thok isn't in any danger.. That's good, I like the thok.

Thanks for clearing it up, devs.
 
Honestly, the best way to nerf thok would be to give it a little upward velocity: and this might seem like it would make it more OP, but it would prevent thokfests, as it would send you further away from the ground.
 
Honestly, the best way to nerf thok would be to give it a little upward velocity: and this might seem like it would make it more OP, but it would prevent thokfests, as it would send you further away from the ground.
Developers don't even care about Multiplayer anymore .
 
I don't think it's so much as them not caring about multiplayer, as it is just less of a priority compared to single player. This was brought up in the 2.2 topic:

We do not think multiplayer should be ignored, as it is a significant part of this game's staying power for some of our fans, but the single player game is by FAR more popular and experienced by a much larger group of people, so it's a more efficient use of our time to work primarily on the single player game.
 
Also. Draw the fact that making another sonic for only 2 gametypes with a rubbish tonk could be done but its taking more time to produce.

They are better off with 1 sonic for all gametypes.

Plus. The tonk is not changing
 
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I kinda have this idea into mind. Only problem is that there are inconsistencies with identifying the game type, I haven't made lua in a while, so i kinda feel rusty. But eh, I might throw this idea into releases if it works out correctly.
 
If you're going to be nerfing the spindash, could you at least buff the mindash? right now if you only hold the spindash button down for a second and release, it sends you at a snail's pace. I think it should be a little over half your normalspeed, something in the ballpark of 20.
 
@Rumia I think they are only nerfing it when on a slopped platform, but yeah I agree that mindash needs a buff.
 
No, spindash in general will be nerfed, possibly all the way back down to 60, or possibly somewhere between that and what 2.1 has. The prevailing sentiment among the dev team is that the current speed is ridiculous and makes it difficult to make interesting platforming that isn't constant upward climbs, because you can leap across basically any gap with it.

And no, we aren't nerfing thok just for MP. We've already stated multiple times that we're sticking with the same stats and abilities in all gametypes, because doing otherwise would make it difficult to learn the game well. If we nerf thok at all (which we aren't likely to), it would be an even nerf in all gametypes.

As for mindash, we're working on it.
 
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