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Old 08-12-2020   #41
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The one big advantage of NiGHTS-style is that the player has to already be good at NiGHTS in order to reach the boss in the first place. Egg Reverie-style is cooler in theory, but it's a new gameplay style out of nowhere at the very end of the game, which means that the boss has to be very easy in order to not be frustrating.
Yeah so you can make it incredibly hard and get away with it. This makes a NiGHTS style boss a really good idea. The devs can really go ham with the difficulty. Imagine something harder than the Black Rock Zone special stage! With a moving boss! It'd be like bullet hell!
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Old 08-12-2020   #42
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if we're going to go for a NiGHTS style final boss, my suggestion is to make it locked behind all seven chaos emeralds. think about it, the normal special stages would be the "main game" leading up to this boss and the boss itself would be the brak eggman of NiGHTS. those who failed to get all seven would have the game ended when defeating normal brak eggman, just like normal.
i just think it's a better solution than forcing new players who wouldn't go out of their way to get chaos emeralds into a new gameplay style they're not familiar with, burning all of their lives and making the final boss almost unclearable.
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Old 08-12-2020   #43
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if we're going to go for a NiGHTS style final boss, my suggestion is to make it locked behind all seven chaos emeralds. think about it, the normal special stages would be the "main game" leading up to this boss and the boss itself would be the brak eggman of NiGHTS. those who failed to get all seven would have the game ended when defeating normal brak eggman, just like normal.
i just think it's a better solution than forcing new players who wouldn't go out of their way to get chaos emeralds into a new gameplay style they're not familiar with, burning all of their lives and making the final boss almost unclearable.
That's the point. Brak Eggman (or some equivalent) would be the normal final boss while the secret final boss would only be accessible after you collect all the Chaos Emeralds.
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Old 08-12-2020   #44
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Maybe Super Eggman from Sonic After The Sequel, ATS.
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Old 08-12-2020   #45
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Maybe Super Eggman from Sonic After The Sequel, ATS.
I think it should be something unique and not just a blatant copy from another fangame.
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Old 08-12-2020   #46
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Egg Reverie-style is cooler in theory, but it's a new gameplay style out of nowhere at the very end of the game, which means that the boss has to be very easy in order to not be frustrating.
I mean, I also kinda agree on the fact that having a free-flying gameplay could be confusing, but the Egg Reverie-style is not mandatory, you could have normal Super Sonic movement on a 3D stage, it also doesn't have to be directly in outer space necessarily, it could be a floating platform or floating pieces that you have to jump trough.

The reason I'm not so keen on a NiGHTS style final boss, is because some people don't like that gameplay, I do like it myself for the special stages, not so much for a final boss. So that's why I don't think it would feel that much of a reward for getting the 7 chaos emeralds. It would also be a bit inconsistent to have the final boss be in a 2D stage, while all other bosses are in 3D stages.
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Old 08-12-2020   #47
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The reason I'm not so keen on a NiGHTS style final boss, is because some people don't like that gameplay, I do like it myself for the special stages, not so much for a final boss. So that's why I don't think it would feel that much of a reward for getting the 7 chaos emeralds. It would also be a bit inconsistent to have the final boss be in a 2D stage, while all other bosses are in 3D stages.
If they didn't like that gameplay, they probably didn't bother getting all the seven emeralds and, if they did, then they probably don't hate it enough to not play a secret final boss with that sort of gameplay.

It wouldn't be inconsistent. It's a secret final boss that's only obtainable after you've collected all seven emeralds all of which were in NiGHTS style special stages. It would be inconsistent to just play on a 3D stage for the secret final boss.

On a personal level, I'm also tired of 3D stage Super Sonic final bosses. They're all super easy (they need to be due to being in a completely different play style) and show up in almost every single Sonic game. I would love to see something unique instead of the same old "run around collecting coins and then bopping into the boss or the boss's weak points" gameplay you see in most Sonic games.
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Old 08-12-2020   #48
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As a bit of an aside, in the hypothetical scenario where NiGHTS gameplay is used for the final boss, Super Sonic shouldn't be used during the normal special stages. Like Tails/Amy/Fang, characters should just look normal.

It's important to make the final boss feel special and not "just another special stage". Characters going Super only during the final boss helps with that feeling, along with other changes like making the dash attack much faster, more powerful, and flashy.

I definitely feel that—if executed well—this style has the most potential for an epic Doomsday Zone-style flying through space battle with overpowered attacks and cinematic flair while still keeping to a control scheme that players are used to. Just playing as Super Sonic jumping around on platforms is fine, but I feel that there's less potential when you're confined to a standard boss arena.

Last edited by Unknownlight; 08-12-2020 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 08-12-2020   #49
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As a bit of an aside, in the hypothetical scenario where NiGHTS gameplay is used for the final boss, Super Sonic shouldn't be used during the normal special stages. Like Tails/Amy/Fang, characters should just look normal.

It's important to make the final boss feel special and not "just another special stage". Characters only going Super only during the final boss helps with that feeling, along with other changes like making the dash attack much faster, more powerful, and flashy.

I definitely feel that—if executed well—this style has the most potential for an epic Doomsday Zone-style flying through space with overpowered attacks and cinematic flair while still keeping to a control scheme that players are used too. Just playing as Super Sonic jumping around on platforms is fine, but I feel that there's less potential when you're confined to a standard boss arena.
Maybe, instead of Sonic and the others finally on their own, flickies are picking them up for flight.
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Old 08-12-2020   #50
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I would love to see something unique instead of the same old "run around collecting coins and then bopping into the boss or the boss's weak points" gameplay you see in most Sonic games.
I also agree most Super Sonic stages from official games are pretty boring, mostly because of what you said, being just about collecting rings and hitting the boss. But a stage being in 3D doesn't imply that gameplay, unless you're free flying of course, which would make it pretty difficult to make anything different from that, which is why it could just be normal Super Sonic on a stage instead of him flying Egg Reverie-style.

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Originally Posted by Unknownlight View Post
As a bit of an aside, in the hypothetical scenario where NiGHTS gameplay is used for the final boss, Super Sonic shouldn't be used during the normal special stages. Like Tails/Amy/Fang, characters should just look normal.
While I agree on this, it would also make it a bit of an issue since, they would need to make new sprites for Sonic for the NiGHTS stages. But who knows, maybe it's not that big of an issue.

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I definitely feel that—if executed well—this style has the most potential for an epic Doomsday Zone-style flying through space battle with overpowered attacks and cinematic flair while still keeping to a control scheme that players are used too. Just playing as Super Sonic jumping around on platforms is fine, but I feel that there's less potential when you're confined to a standard boss arena.
Yeah, that's true, maybe it could be a free-flying stage, but in 2D, just so you get the normal moveset instead of the more limited NiGHTS one, altough I'm not sure how that gameplay would feel, since there aren't a lot of 2D segments on the main stages.
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Old 08-12-2020   #51
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I also agree most Super Sonic stages from official games are pretty boring, mostly because of what you said, being just about collecting rings and hitting the boss. But a stage being in 3D doesn't imply that gameplay, unless you're free flying of course, which would make it pretty difficult to make anything different from that, which is why it could just be normal Super Sonic on a stage instead of him flying Egg Reverie-style.
That'd also be boring. There would be no point to Sonic being Super in this case if you're just doing regular platforming. It wouldn't be special.
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Old 08-12-2020   #52
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That'd also be boring. There would be no point to Sonic being Super in this case if you're just doing regular platforming. It wouldn't be special.
Yeah, thinking about it, normal platforming could be just as boring, maybe having multiple phases would make more sense, you know, like maybe it could be:

-The big Eggman station is about to be destroyed, and you have to race outside before a timer runs out (Altough, that might contradict how the ending scene shows the station exploding).

-You fight a flying version of Brak Eggman in a 2D stage, more akin to "Doomsday Zone" in terms of gameplay, but with a unique way of beating the boss, instead of being the collect rings, hit the boss usual stuff.

Now, I'm not sure how well the NiGHTS gameplay would adapt to a 2D boss, I think it might work better as a normal 2D section, with free flying as Super Sonic, instead of a NiGHTS stage. Altough as someone said before, maybe there would need to be more 2D sections in the main stages so it didn't feel weird to have a 2D segment like this.
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Old 08-14-2020   #53
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NiGHTS or not, I so want a true final boss for this game.

Sonic & Knuckles invented it. Up until Unleashed, the tradition was kept in posterior games. Mania brought it back.

I don't see why not.
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Old 08-14-2020   #54
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To be honest it would be kind of a neat idea to add a Doomsday kind of zone into srb2 using nights
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Old 08-14-2020   #55
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NiGHTS or not, I so want a true final boss for this game.

Sonic & Knuckles invented it. Up until Unleashed, the tradition was kept in posterior games. Mania brought it back.

I don't see why not.
People still love Sonic 2 and CD despite being two games that don't have a secret boss when having every Chaos Emeralds/Time Stones
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Old 08-15-2020   #56
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People still love Sonic 2 and CD despite being two games that don't have a secret boss when having every Chaos Emeralds/Time Stones
Sonic 2, yes. CD on the other hand is controversial. I happen to enjoy it myself, but there's a lot of people who think it's terrible. The only thing I think is more or less universally enjoyed about it is the soundtrack, and even then there are arguments as to which of the two OST's is better.

Back on topic, I'm also in the boat that I would just be happy to see a special Super Sonic boss fight at all, though I would prefer it to be 3D in some capacity. Perhaps it could be (in regards to level design) designed specifically around Super Sonic's moveset without changing up the moveset from regular gameplay, so as to make it interesting yet familiar. NiGHTS mode would work, but it would also be a tad underwhelming since the game is primarily 3D.
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Old 08-15-2020   #57
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NiGHTS or not, I so want a true final boss for this game.

Sonic & Knuckles invented it. Up until Unleashed, the tradition was kept in posterior games. Mania brought it back.

I don't see why not.
Imagine if it's the Black Rock itself which is the true final boss. It was sentient the entire time and maybe it got corrupted by Eggman's machinery or influence.
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Old 08-15-2020   #58
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https://mb.srb2.org/showthread.php?t=24408
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Old 08-15-2020   #59
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Sorry but this thread is from 2007...

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Sonic 2, yes. CD on the other hand is controversial. I happen to enjoy it myself, but there's a lot of people who think it's terrible. The only thing I think is more or less universally enjoyed about it is the soundtrack, and even then there are arguments as to which of the two OST's is better.
Sonic CD is still objectively one of the best Sonic game ever made (even if some think it's terrible) and the Japanese OST fits Sonic better overal.

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Back on topic, I'm also in the boat that I would just be happy to see a special Super Sonic boss fight at all, though I would prefer it to be 3D in some capacity. Perhaps it could be (in regards to level design) designed specifically around Super Sonic's moveset without changing up the moveset from regular gameplay, so as to make it interesting yet familiar. NiGHTS mode would work, but it would also be a tad underwhelming since the game is primarily 3D.
The problem is that a 3D final boss may ends up being frustrating than a simpler 2D one.

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Imagine if it's the Black Rock itself which is the true final boss. It was sentient the entire time and maybe it got corrupted by Eggman's machinery or influence.
That's what I suggested a while ago.
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Old 08-15-2020   #60
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he problem is that a 3D final boss may ends up being frustrating than a simpler 2D one.
On the contrary, a 3D final boss would have to be simplistic and easy because it requires a control scheme that the player would be unfamiliar with. With a NiGHTs style boss you don't need to make it easy, you can make it as hard as you want because you can count on the player having already mastered the control scheme (they need to in order to even collect all seven emeralds).
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