Techno Legacy is bad?
- Thread starter Icarus
- Start date
GreenKnight9000
Member
I agree.
I firmly believe that Techno Legacy IS the worst stage in the entire game, it's just ABYSMAL - it's an INSULT to SRB2's history, with the stage being modified for no reason, and just one small stage (and not even the best one in the game, for that matter) chosen over the ENTIRETY of Classic SRB2's Campaign in one stage? This left such a bad taste in my mouth that, for a short while, concerned me about the design choices of SRB2's development team, though in hindsight I was probably overreacting during that "What? That's it? That's the reward I get?" moment, if you get what I mean; now that there's new staff taking place of the old one, I have faith that this error might be rectified in 2.3.
I firmly believe that Techno Legacy IS the worst stage in the entire game, it's just ABYSMAL - it's an INSULT to SRB2's history, with the stage being modified for no reason, and just one small stage (and not even the best one in the game, for that matter) chosen over the ENTIRETY of Classic SRB2's Campaign in one stage? This left such a bad taste in my mouth that, for a short while, concerned me about the design choices of SRB2's development team, though in hindsight I was probably overreacting during that "What? That's it? That's the reward I get?" moment, if you get what I mean; now that there's new staff taking place of the old one, I have faith that this error might be rectified in 2.3.
This would actually be kind of a neat idea for Forest Fortress (unlock via all emblems in CEZ1).
I would just trash TLZ.
cookiefonster
Wiki Admin
See, that's a big fundamental flaw with Techno Legacy right here. It makes no sense to give the level a remake to match 2.2 standards, because it already has one in the form of THZ2 as we know it today. Worse yet, the zone's retro aesthetic was already tampered with quite a bit so as not to confuse those familiar with 2.2, and adjusting the level to be further modernized would break that aesthetic completely—some people argue the slime recoloring already ruined the aesthetic.
The only useful thing to come out of Techno Legacy's inclusion, in my opinion, is cementation of the liquid color coding rules set in 2.2: red/orange/yellow = lava, gold/brown = quicksand or mud, green = acid, blue = water, purple = goop. Now that the point about the importance of color coding liquids has been made, Techno Legacy can be safely removed from the next major update.
zevirik
doom 2 is actually an srb2 mod
everyone seems deadset (icannotbelieveimusingaussieslanglol) on the removal of TLZ. in that case, what should it even be replaced with? aside from final demo zone, of course.
i mean, id argue that the first few versions of CEZ would be a good idea (one of them has that echidna dude easter egg i think), but we already have a version of CEZ as an unlockable and i think thatd be unfair. but i cant really think of any other version of any other stage that could replace it.
i guess.... maybe blue mountain??? the unfinished second act of volcano zone. its already been confirmed its not coming back in the single player campaign so i think finishing it and adding it in as an unlockable would be a neat idea. i mean, its a level that can actually be fixed for 2.2 (2.3??) since it was never finished to begin with, meanwhile TLZ lost its meaning with the slime. (id argue thats stupid, its just making things clearer, but like, whatever)
(and yeah i know we have frozen hillside zone, but frozen/ice theme =/= christmas and FHZ is definetly going with the christmas theme with its little snowmen and such. im sure you could make some frozen-themed enemies for BMZ without forcing in a christmas light.)
i mean, id argue that the first few versions of CEZ would be a good idea (one of them has that echidna dude easter egg i think), but we already have a version of CEZ as an unlockable and i think thatd be unfair. but i cant really think of any other version of any other stage that could replace it.
i guess.... maybe blue mountain??? the unfinished second act of volcano zone. its already been confirmed its not coming back in the single player campaign so i think finishing it and adding it in as an unlockable would be a neat idea. i mean, its a level that can actually be fixed for 2.2 (2.3??) since it was never finished to begin with, meanwhile TLZ lost its meaning with the slime. (id argue thats stupid, its just making things clearer, but like, whatever)
(and yeah i know we have frozen hillside zone, but frozen/ice theme =/= christmas and FHZ is definetly going with the christmas theme with its little snowmen and such. im sure you could make some frozen-themed enemies for BMZ without forcing in a christmas light.)
cookiefonster
Wiki Admin
Could be anything, really. A level with a theme that hasn't been used in the main campaign, another level putting the mechanics of a non-Sonic game series in SRB2, a level combining existing gimmicks to form a final exam style challenge, you name it. I don't think we really need two past versions of levels in the game—Forest Fortress works, Techno Legacy doesn't, simple as that. If, in the future of SRB2, another level ends up having an interesting scrapped version that's reasonably up to the game's current standards, then I'm all for putting it in the game. Other than that, legacy levels really don't belong in SRB2.
Icarus
Phantasy Savior
Then what is the point of wanting to get emblems?
I also personally think that the emblem detector should be lower.
Unknownlight
Member
If you don't find collecting emblems to be fun then you shouldn't be bothering to collect the emblems. This is a game, not work.
I mean people might find it fun to be working toward a reward, it's just when the game is unintentionally hyping up the higher emblem unlocks it feels like it spits in your face when the reward is basically nothing.
Unknownlight
Member
That's a problem. I agree. Pandora's Box is the worst offender. It should be called something like "Cheat Menu" in the unlockables list.
That's more of an issue with the presentation, not the unlockables themselves, though.
That's more of an issue with the presentation, not the unlockables themselves, though.
Unknownlight
Member
I might be misremembering. Does the extras menu list Level Select as a reward for 200 emblems, or is it shown as "???"
In my memory, the unlockables menu lists "Pandora's Box" there, hyping you up for some cool 200 emblem unlock, only for a new player to be severely disappointed once they learn what it is.
In my memory, the unlockables menu lists "Pandora's Box" there, hyping you up for some cool 200 emblem unlock, only for a new player to be severely disappointed once they learn what it is.
Fal
Member
There's nothing much of value to check out for TLZ. This zone was straight up lifted from 1.09.4, scarce of emblems for no reason, and the cost of it to be unlocked is too much. At the mark of 100 emblems, I would expect some grandiose zone, one that's really gimmicky, or extremely visual-appealing, or even entirely reliant to many different slopes, simply something that tries to be as much disconnected and different from the main campaign as possible. Personally speaking, it can be rather stressing at times to keep searching for emblems through the games, and the frustration sharply increases once I arrive in an enormous, open world-like zone, and the written enigmatic poems tend to be more unhelpful than helpful (thank goodness for the emblem radar, though).
I strongly support for removing it. That, or reallocate it to a much lesser amount of emblems required for accessing it.
Confusingly enough, Forest Fortress makes up its same job as TLZ, no? And a much better one at that in all possible aspects, to the point it entirely invalidates the point of TLZ.
I strongly support for removing it. That, or reallocate it to a much lesser amount of emblems required for accessing it.
Confusingly enough, Forest Fortress makes up its same job as TLZ, no? And a much better one at that in all possible aspects, to the point it entirely invalidates the point of TLZ.
I vote for the inclusion of this and this. Admittedly, I haven't played theses zones yet, but surely, the level design prototypes of their final selfs must be more worthwhile just by looking at the preview pictures.
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Icarus
Phantasy Savior
I'll be even more honest about that: collectibles in Sonic games have never been that interesting (yes, from Adventure 1/2 to the Red Ring from the more recent modern game), I always felt like Sonic didn't need them because it's not Mario 64 nor Banjo & Kazooie...
I would be all for a level select upon finishing the game with any character so you could train/play any level with any character (but without Chaos Emeralds nor continues) instead of having to play the game 6 times (in short not pulling a Sonic Heroes where the player has to do the game 4 times to see the true end)
Peppermint
hello
Mabye the green acid is the most dissapointing, mabye Final Demo Zone or ACZ2 Museum would been a better unlockable than just a failed recreation.
Pandora's Box is super helpful for testing, or judging subissions in my case. It's meant to be more of a throwback to Debug features. You can do just about all of Pandoa's Box's functions if you have debug mode enabled and know the console commands, the box just gives you shortcuts. It's more of a "You beat the game 100%, and we dont really have anything else to give you, so here, take the keys, go nuts" kind of reward. Though, I'd very much like to have Objectplace in the box to make it even more like the old games' debug modes. I'd also put midgame character switching in single player via the box.
The problem with having a super good unlock at 100% is that... it's the very last one. Like, if you put a level there, then you complete it and get... nothing? If you add a character,t hen not only do you have the issue of that character having nothing to do, that means this character is locked out to anyone who doesn't have it, which is a far larger issue in multiplayer. Even if this secret character is balanced, thats still a competitive option that others cant have unless they're completionists.
So I'd rather a reward for 100% be something to brag about, rather than something more tangible. Pandora's Box is a lot more than most other games are willing to offer, which is usualy just an achievement and some number on a stat screen somewhere.
cookiefonster
Wiki Admin
I just tried out Final Demo Zone myself and, speaking as someone who didn't play SRB2 until 2.2 came out, I think it would be a TERRIBLE idea to make it an unlockable. The levels are all either extremely bland or extremely easy to get lost in, or both (looking at you, old THZ1 and CEZ1), and I think that having them all combined as an unlockable would not suit itself well to anyone who didn't play the old versions of the levels. Techno Legacy is very bland and should definitely be removed, but replacing it with Final Demo would be even worse. A better idea would just be to put in a totally new original level for 100 emblems instead.
SilverVortex
True,
if we absolutely have to have a legacy stage it should probably be the entirety of greenflower from 2.1, since it's pretty short and it'll be over quicker than every other stage option.
Icarus
Phantasy Savior
You are saying it because you don't have the nostalgia for the 1.x era but the final demo zone is a great idea to show how far the game has evolved since then.
cookiefonster
Wiki Admin
Conceptually, it certainly is a good way to showcase the game's lengthy history, but I do not think that excuses the levels' subpar quality one bit. I would rather have an enjoyable regular old bonus level than something of purely historical interest.