Arid Canyon criticism thread

cookiefonster

cookiefonster

Wiki Admin
Threads criticizing specific zones seem to be a new pattern on this forum, so I've decided to throw my hat into the ring and give my criticisms towards Arid Canyon Zone.

Act 1 is absurdly biased towards Tails and Knuckles, who can skip almost the entire zone and easily access any path just by flying or climbing/gliding around, unlike Sonic who has to interact with basically every gimmick or hazard thrown at him. Dust devils are great and very satisfying to use, but I am really not a fan of the rope pulley gimmick; it feels like a huge pace-breaker that can be incredibly difficult to control, but I'm pretty sure that's because of the game's wonky physics. The final rope pulley section is ridiculously hard and basically requires memorization of where to go and when to jump off each rope, which again is the physics' fault.

Act 2 has very strange pacing and path imbalance. I really like a lot of the paths the zone has to offer and its convoluted, intertwining path structure, but some of the paths are just disappointingly short, consisting of basically short platforming 1, minecart section 1, short platforming 2, and minecart section 2 (the final minecart section, that is). It's also weird that a lot of the most interesting content in the zone is exclusive to Amy and Fang. The zone's paths for them are by far my favorite Amy/Fang content in the game, but they also make the zone a bit more underwhelming for spin characters by comparison since they're locked out of so much cool stuff and don't get cool content that Amy and Fang don't.

I'm interested to see what other criticisms people have towards the zone. There's a lot of stuff I really love about both acts, but also a lot of stuff I don't.
 
I didn't read anything in this thread, but you're all wrong because ACZ is perfect zone.
Alright, jokes aside, ACZ is my favorite zone in srb2. But I'll admit, it has its problems. ACZ act 1 has the conveyor belt thingies are slow. Tails and Knuckles make the gimmicks look like backround objects. Pacing is kinda slow in act 2, and the minecarts aren't that great. Once I get to the final parts of the levels, I just stop there and exit the stage.
 
2.2's ACZ is a decent experience now that I'm familiar with it, but it was kind of a pain on my first playthrough, which I did as Sonic and Tails. (For reference, I joined the community when 2.0.6 was the current version, and 2.0/2.1 ACZ was the one I was familiar with.)

I recall getting confused at the path split in ACZ1 with the Super Sneakers on the left and the dynamite on the right. I didn't realize that as Sonic, the Super Sneakers on the left path were mandatory to proceed, and that I had to go back and get them if I ran out of Super Sneakers time before reaching the next checkpoint. (In hindsight, I should have figured as much from the fact that the Super Sneakers monitor was the respawning sort, but I imagine it would've been even harder for a newer player who wasn't as familiar with golden monitors and what they signal in level design.) Instead of using the Super Sneakers, I used Tails to get to higher ground... and that got me lost for a few minutes, since I didn't know which ways were "forward".

As for ACZ2... most of the level was fine, as I recall, but I found the final minecart section frustrating. I must have lost at least 15 lives on it before beating it for the first time. I already understood some of how to control the minecart from an earlier minecart section, but I don't think that section taught me that I sometimes needed to jump off a rail with the Jump button and land on the same rail. So when the final minecart section expected me to do it at a moment's notice, I lost a couple of lives before I figured out what to do and got the timing down. Perhaps more importantly, though, the rail layout in the final section can be confusing, especially near the beginning, and figuring out where and when to switch rails was mostly trial and error for me. And the whole thing felt much more punishing than the rest of the game up until that point, since I couldn't take things at my own pace and the punishment for even one mistake was so frequently death.
 
Coming from a speedrunning perspective, I actually think ACZ1 is one of the coolest stages in the game. The way it's built and layered on top of itself creates many unique pathing choices not just for Tails/Knuckles/Metal but even more so for Sonic/Amy/Fang since they can utilize slopes, monitor/badnik bounces, and the wind shield to do. If you haven't seen some of the latest ILs of this stage for those 3 characters, check them out. They're fun to watch and perform once you understand them.

As for a casual perspective... I think both stages need some serious work. The biggest issue these stages have is that a lot of their empty space is just covered by a bottomless pit. I think this is most exemplified at the end of act 1 with it just being a big gimmick gauntlet when the player was only asked to ride them at most 3 other times in the stage, and just in a straight line. No cross overs needed. This problem extends to ACZ2 where most minecart segments are somewhat simple and fairly avoidable, and then there's just a large gauntlet at the end. And now players don't even have the option to avoid it with Tails or Knuckles. I do know there's an alternate goal post in ACZ2 which gives me hope there's an alternate ending planned for next release not involving minecarts, as I'm not a particular fan of them.

Overall though, I think ACZ is the best to mess around in, just bogged down by bad gimmicks and bottomless pits galor.
 
So, like basically all of the stages, this one was massively improved in 2.2. The older version was just a pain, and I'd constantly get lost. In the newer version, I can still get lost, but mostly if I'm trying to break the stage with Tails or Knuckles. The new mine cart gimmick is cool. But the first time I encountered it, I didn't understand how it worked, and kept dying from it. Once I understood the mechanics, though, it became a nice challenge.

I will say, the one part of the stage I did keep getting lost in (and my brother too, when I finally convinced him to play it), was that part when you descend into the mines. I don't know if I can describe the area clearly without screenshots, but it has lots of springs around it, and a wall between it and another section. There's a path at the top, but going that way is backwards. I think simply adding a sign pointing the player towards the entrance of the mine would help.

Also, just realizing from the 742mph's mention of a golden Super Sneakers monitor that I have never actually completed the stage as Sonic alone... I'll have to rectify that, and see if my opinion changes.
 
The only real criticisms I have are the tornadoes at the beginning of act 2 are tricky to make use of, and it's easy to get lost if you are looking for shortcuts/goodies. I've seen a lot of people complain about the bottomless pits before, but I don't really see a problem with them myself. I do think the zone would be improved if there were a few more places where you could fall down and just lose progress rather than dying though. I also feel like there should be something aesthetic about the bottomless pits that gives a reason for why Sonic and friends should die when otherwise they never take fall damage.
 
Okay. So I finished the game with Sonic alone, so I couldn't rely on Tails to help me out. First, I somehow managed to avoid the golden Super Sneakers monitor. Guess I found a way around it.

Second, my god, that final pulley section in Act 1 is dreadful as Sonic. If you follow the pulleys to the left path, get to the platform with the Dust Devil and the Albatross, then there's nowhere to go except leap across to the right path. The pulleys above are too high to reach. On the right path, you have that slop with the spikes on the side of it. Tails can fly over it, Knuckles can climb around the spikes, Metal Sonic can break the spikes, Amy can...I actually don't remember how I got past that part with Amy. But what is Sonic supposed to do? You can't use the pulleys to backtrack so you can take the upper path, because that one section is too high to reach, so...

pp,550x550.u9.jpg
So I respawn at the checkpoint at the beginning, jump to the ledge with the Dust Devil on it, and jump from there to the upper path of the pulleys. I died so many times trying to take this path. Either I'd miss one of the pulleys, or that dang Albatross from the left path will decide to fly over and ruin my day.

time gear said:
I also feel like there should be something aesthetic about the bottomless pits that gives a reason for why Sonic and friends should die when otherwise they never take fall damage.
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It's super high up. It didn't need to be explained in Red Mountain (Sonic Adventure) or Wing Fortress (Sonic 2). Falling from extreme heights is universally understood to not be ideal.

PS: Why wasn't the message above mine deleted or censored?
 
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GrayAngel said:
Okay. So I finished the game with Sonic alone, so I couldn't rely on Tails to help me out. First, I somehow managed to avoid the golden Super Sneakers monitor. Guess I found a way around it.
Click to expand...
The golden Super Sneakers Monitor is at the very start of the left branch of a path split in the zone. The right branch is the route more people seem to take, though.
 
After thinking on it for a while, I do think I have an idea for how to make the final pulley section in Act 1 less of a nightmare. The idea is this: The pulleys could remain the same as they are now, same configuration and everything. However, instead of a bottomless pit below them, there's a slower, more hazardous pathway to the finish Sonic has to climb up through if he falls down.

This way, if Sonic can navigate the pulleys without falling he is rewarded with a faster time, but if he falls down his punishment is having more level to do instead of just losing a life and having to try the pulleys again. The incentive for doing the pulleys is to not have to do the lower path.
 
Shapeshifter Boi said:
Anything that isnt the pulleys is faster, it would be cheap to have a pit that slowed him down that much.
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I personally don't find the pulleys to be that slow, but that's also probably partially because I've done them so much I can skip most of the waiting times and some of the entire individual pulleys by using the thok precisely.
 
If the physics were changed so that you don't keep momentum when jumping from a pulley, you could have the pulleys move at high speed rather than the current languid pace.

That'd be fun for some visual setpieces too. Grab onto a pulley moving at thok-speed through a cool canyon section.
 
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2.1's ACZ1 was a bit less easy to fly over as Tails, since there was a lot of individual rooms instead of being just a huge room with some paths at bottom

For ACZ2... Some minecart sections were a bit annoying, but when you get used to them, they turn into something a bit funnier

In general terms... It caught me off-guard being hit by Minuses when I tried to kill them by just spindashing in place until they pop out and die like in 2.1

Also the Fang battle is a bit annoying, because you'll lose time if you get hit by that corks he fire...
 
cookiefonster said:
If you think Arid Canyon is laggy, wait until you see Haunted Heights. :P
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not really related to the thread topic but i gotta say, my laptop can handle all of the stages, even cez2, without lag if there are no intensive mods loaded.
except haunted heights. screw haunted heights.
 
I'm more than happy to talk about haunted heights if there's others who want to partake in that discussion, but it should probably be reserved for it's own thread.
 
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