What if Sonic stopped being made?

Yes, '06 is bad. We never intended to deny that.

But you cannot use it's lack of quality to defend every single fan project from their own flaws. There are bad fan projects, just as there are bad official games. Comparing a fan project that wasn't rushed to hell and back and that was made with passion in mind and not money to a game rushed to hell and back, made to print money, is a faulty comparison that hurts everyone involved.
 
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OK, I've been meaning to make a reply to this thread for a bit, and what better time than to use the topic this thread has swapped to.

Yeah, fan-projects CAN have flaws and using official games' downcomings to defend them is not fair in the slightest. Inferno made good points about this as well. And I can safely say I like '06's efforts, as it WAS the last game to have as open a story as it did. I can safely say as well it's FAR from perfect. So yeah, fan projects can be just as bad as the games.
 
Chezi said:
If we’re going to talk about developers either not having enough time or not wanting to fix bugs, SRB1 is just as guilty of that.
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This is a pretty faulty comparison for a lot of reasons, but the main reason is that fan projects are nonprofit by nature and don't have the same obligation to deliver a quality product.

The fact that there's even a question as to whether [x] fangame is better or worse than official Sonic titles seems like a testament to how badly the market is doing its job.
 
CobaltBW said:
This is a pretty faulty comparison for a lot of reasons, but the main reason is that fan projects are nonprofit by nature and don't have the same obligation to deliver a quality product.

The fact that there's even a question as to whether [x] fangame is better or worse than official Sonic titles seems like a testament to how badly the market is doing its job.
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Which is essentially what I was trying to get at as well.

Fan projects are nonprofit, and such. Therefore, ANY comparison of them to official games is a bit faulty.

If you act as if all fan games are good, then you're denying the truth. Act as if all official games are good, you're denying the truth. There are fan games that are better than official games currently, yes.

But not every single possible one is, and for the single reason that they are nonprofit. Do not deny the truth.

It's not really fair to make hyperbolic comparisons like that have been made.
 
CobaltBW said:
This is a pretty faulty comparison for a lot of reasons, but the main reason is that fan projects are nonprofit by nature and don't have the same obligation to deliver a quality product.
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That pretty much proves my point: saying that fan games are always better than official games is just flat out wrong. There’s millions more fan games than official ones. Heck, search up Sonic on Scratch and you’ll get at least 200 results for at least 200 fangames
 
I wasn't comparing fan games to main games. I think saying '06 is better than a fan game is messed up, because fan games have very small dev teams.
 
rocklight124 said:
I wasn't comparing fan games to main games. I think saying '06 is better than a fan game is messed up, because fan games have very small dev teams.
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The point that "fan games have very small dev teams" can be considered moot when you consider that Undertale was created by one man. A lot of fan games have also been created by a single person, which means that they also have the potential to be greater than an official Sonic game
 
Chezi said:
The point that "fan games have very small dev teams" can be considered moot when you consider that Undertale was created by one man. A lot of fan games have also been created by a single person, which means that they also have the potential to be greater than an official Sonic game
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I think a lot of fan games are better than official games.
 
rocklight124 said:
I think a lot of fan games are better than official games.
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It's cool that you think that, but going back to what I said earlier, there are millions more fan games than official ones. I'd say a good 80% of them aren't better than any official game. That includes entirely original projects like SRB1 and those made in other engines like Scratch and Roblox
 
rocklight124 said:
I think a lot of fan games are better than official games.
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I mean, If we are going to make a comparison, what sonic fangames you think are better than... Unleashed let's say? Or the adventure ones? I'm aware those are one of the best ones, but since y'all insist in saying that fangames are better than official games..
I mean, not every fangame of sonic is better than 06 lets say because the "soul" they put into it, and even then, wouldn't technically be 06 one of the games that the developers put more soul into it? Considering the time they had to make 06, they went full bananas lol
 
At least SRB1 is free.

For Sonic 2006 you had to pay real money!


I think that the fact that Sonic 2006 failed and Mania was the most well received game in decade tells a lot about which direction the series should go.

Maybe the best way to make Sonic evolve is to actually backtrack and not try to do something that the series was never meant to be.
 
Icarus said:
I think that the fact that Sonic 2006 failed and Mania was the most well received game in decade tells a lot about which direction the series should go.
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06 failed because of his bugs and the Sonic story, not because "it's 3d", a 3d modern sonic game can be as well received as a classic sonic one, Mania was well received because we NEEDED to go back

Like it or not, Sonic is and will still be going 3d mainly, mania was made as a celebration for the anniversary along with forces anyway, i think we are getting off topic..
 
Nicolas618 said:
06 failed because of his bugs and the Sonic story, not because "it's 3d", a 3d modern sonic game can be as well received as a classic sonic one, Mania was well received because we NEEDED to go back

Like it or not, Sonic is and will still be going 3d mainly, mania was made as a celebration for the anniversary along with forces anyway, i think we are getting off topic..
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I still think that it being 3D didn't help (that 2D fan-made demake already looked 10x better) and Mania was good not just because it was 2D (Sonic 4 was also 2D) but because people are literally tired of Modern 3D Sonic.

And I still wish Sega could just stop with developping game (because Sonic Team are incompetent and Iizuka is just a bad game director) to let people who truly love the series handle it.
 
Icarus said:
I still think that it being 3D didn't help (that 2D fan-made demake already looked 10x better) and Mania was good not just because it was 2D (Sonic 4 was also 2D) but because people are literally tired of Modern 3D Sonic.

And I still wish Sega could just stop with developping game (because Sonic Team are incompetent and Iizuka is just a bad game director) to let people who truly love the series handle it.
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So, by your logic mania was good because ppl are tired from 3d modern sonic, right?
If mania was a 3rd game (graphically speaking) it wouldn't sell that much, it was successful because it is a pixelated momentum 2d Classic Sonic game, just like the classics, it did sell well because of nostalgia mostly.
Why was Sonic 4 received so badly? It's a 2d game after all, not a 3d one, know why? One of the reasons it didn't sell well was because sonic 4 features modern sonic, and not classic, YES it would be better if classic was instead of modern, but still my point stands, if Mania was a 2d modern sonic game, it STILL wouldn't sell like the original one, ppl want classic everywhere yet people still throw trash to sonic team begging because the don't want it, that's the part that I don't get, the literal bipolarity in this franchise.
But still, off topic so let's move on:
I don't think it would be very helpful for the franchise to literally stop doing sonic and let the fans do it, why? Because its SEGA.
Sega is possible of giving the Sonic franchise to some """"developers"""" and It could turn in a disaster, if they can't "make good decisions" or "good games" like everybody says, why do you think letting them that option is even viable? By that logic they would choose the wrong option.
Anyways english it's not my native language, so feel free to help me on that.
 
Nicolas618 said:
So, by your logic mania was good because ppl are tired from 3d modern sonic, right?
If mania was a 3rd game (graphically speaking) it wouldn't sell that much, it was successful because it is a pixelated momentum 2d Classic Sonic game, just like the classics, it did sell well because of nostalgia mostly.
Why was Sonic 4 received so badly? It's a 2d game after all, not a 3d one, know why? One of the reasons it didn't sell well was because sonic 4 features modern sonic, and not classic, YES it would be better if classic was instead of modern, but still my point stands, if Mania was a 2d modern sonic game, it STILL wouldn't sell like the original one, ppl want classic everywhere yet people still throw trash to sonic team begging because the don't want it, that's the part that I don't get, the literal bipolarity in this franchise.
But still, off topic so let's move on:
I don't think it would be very helpful for the franchise to literally stop doing sonic and let the fans do it, why? Because its SEGA.
Sega is possible of giving the Sonic franchise to some """"developers"""" and It could turn in a disaster, if they can't "make good decisions" or "good games" like everybody says, why do you think letting them that option is even viable? By that logic they would choose the wrong option.
Anyways english it's not my native language, so feel free to help me on that.
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I still think that if Sonic 4 was more like Mania it would've been received better.

Homing attack in 2D doesn't work well, it's a bad idea.

And I couldn't care less if only Classic games would be made, just not by the Sonic Team and their lazy low-quality nostalgia-bait.
 
Just because it didn't work in the game doesn't mean it's a bad idea, you can use it to reach higher paths with enemies, save yourself from falling if an enemy is in the edge, etc.
Icarus said:
And I couldn't care less if only Classic games would be made, just not by the Sonic Team and their lazy low-quality nostalgia-bait.
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You just want to erase almost every sonic character from existence and only let Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and some more on the franchise? Really? Don't you like any modern character like Blaze or even Shadow for example? Why would you erase modern things like the Sol emeralds?
And No, modern characters in a 2d game is a bad idea, it doesn't work well at all
Icarus said:
I still think that if Sonic 4 was more like Mania it would've been received better.
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You are saying that if Sonic 4 was pixelated and with classic sonic? No, because it has the homing attack, without the homing attack? Sonic 4 pixelated with momentum and classic sonic without the homing attack? That's...Sonic mania, it even has some overused stages like sonic 4, sure the name's different, but the stages are almost the same
 
Nicolas618 said:
You just want to erase almost every sonic character from existence and only let Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and some more on the franchise? Really? Don't you like any modern character like Blaze or even Shadow for example? Why would you erase modern things like the Sol emeralds?
And No, modern characters in a 2d game is a bad idea, it doesn't work well at all
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The thing is that most background character have no big use in most of the game (remember how badly received the Chaotix were in Heroes? They were nothing more than an excuse to bring a boring mission mode to the game).
And Sega already erased Blaze and the Sol Dimension since long ago.
Also yes,Shadow should've stayed dead instead of coming back just because of fan demand.
Nicolas618 said:
You are saying that if Sonic 4 was pixelated and with classic sonic? No, because it has the homing attack, without the homing attack? Sonic 4 pixelated with momentum and classic sonic without the homing attack? That's...Sonic mania, it even has some overused stages like sonic 4, sure the name's different, but the stages are almost the same
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Sonic 4 looks bad with the weird plastic look, pixel art works better and never ages.

Sonic 4 also had a bland level design (unlike Mania) and the recycled levels are arguably worse (I'd take Mania's Green Hill over Sonic 4's Splash Hill everyday).
 
Um hello Modern Sonic work great in 2d. Sonic Advance series and Sonic Rush. Those games are just amazing, and yes Sonic 4 sucks eggs (pun intended). I think if it was more like mania I would have been playable, but the art style has to go. but in my opinion making Mania just taps into Sega's problem with nostalgia. If Mania used the modern cast I personally would have loved it. Mania just proves that Sega don't have faith in Modern Sonic anymore.
 
I honestly wouldn't really pay attention to it. I've been trying to distance myself from the Sonic The Hedgehog franchise, and as such, I wouldn't have the right to have an opinion on this subject.
 
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