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Old 11-20-2011   #1
PHCC
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Default Feynman ciphers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman Ciphers
Feynman Challenge Cipher #1 (Solved!)

MEOTAIHSIBRTEWDGLGKNLANEAINOEEPEYST
NPEUOOEHRONLTIROSDHEOTNPHGAAETOHSZO
TTENTKEPADLYPHEODOWCFORRRNLCUEEEEOP
GMRLHNNDFTOENEALKEHHEATTHNMESCNSHIR
AETDAHLHEMTETRFSWEDOEOENEGFHETAEDGH
RLNNGOAAEOCMTURRSLTDIDOREHNHEHNAYVT
IERHEENECTRNVIOUOEHOTRNWSAYIFSNSHOE
MRTRREUAUUHOHOOHCDCHTEEISEVRLSKLIHI
IAPCHRHSIHPSNWTOIISISHHNWEMTIEYAFEL
NRENLEERYIPHBEROTEVPHNTYATIERTIHEEA
WTWVHTASETHHSDNGEIEAYNHHHNNHTW

(380 characters, modulo 384 transposition cipher) --> Chaucer, Canterbury Tales:-

WHANTHATAPRILLEWITHHISSHOURESSOOTET
HEDROGHTEOFMARCHHATHPERCEDTOTHEROOT
EANDBATHEDEVERYVEYNEINSWICHLICOUROF
WHICHVERTUENGENDREDISTHEFLOURWHANZE
PHIRUSEEKWITHHISSWEETEBREFTHINSPIRE
DHATHINEVERYHOLTANDHEETHTHETENDRECR
OPPESANDTHEYONGESONNEHATHINTHERAMHI
SHALVECOURSYRONNEANDSMALEFOWELESMAK
ENMELODYETHATSLEPENALTHENYGHTWITHOP
ENYESOPRIKETHHEMNATUREINHIRCORAGEST
HANNELONGENFOLKTOGOONONPILGRIM

Feynman Challenge Cipher #2

XUKEXWSLZJUAXUNKIGWFSOZRAWURORKXAOS
LHROBXBTKCMUWDVPTFBLMKEFVWMUXTVTWUI
DDJVZKBRMCWOIWYDXMLUFPVSHAGSVWUFWOR
CWUIDUJCNVTTBERTUNOJUZHVTWKORSVRZSV
VFSQXOCMUWPYTRLGBMCYPOJCLRIYTVFCCMU
WUFPOXCNMCIWMSKPXEDLYIQKDJWIWCJUMVR
CJUMVRKXWURKPSEEIWZVXULEIOETOOFWKBI
UXPXUGOWLFPWUSCH

Feynman Challenge Cipher #3

WURVFXGJYTHEIZXSQXOBGSVRUDOOJXATBKT
ARVIXPYTMYABMVUFXPXKUJVPLSDVTGNGOSI
GLWURPKFCVGELLRNNGLPYTFVTPXAJOSCWRO
DORWNWSICLFKEMOTGJYCRRAOJVNTODVMNSQ
IVICRBICRUDCSKXYPDMDROJUZICRVFWXIFP
XIVVIEPYTDOIAVRBOOXWRAKPSZXTZKVROSW
CRCFVEESOLWKTOBXAUXVB
I saw this sometime ago, and it really made my brain explode. How can someone create a so difficult code? Is it worth to try solving it?

Seriously, those secret messages makes everyone curious to see what words are hidden in the code. Well, I just wanted to give it a try, and I already saw some important things from the two last unsolved codes :

The 2nd and 3rd ciphers have some codes in common, and some codes that repeats only in themselves:

XUKEXWSLZJUAXUNKIGWFSOZRA(1)WURO(2)RKXAOS
LHR(3)OBXBTKCMUWDVPTFBLMKEFVWMUXTVT(4)WUI
D
DJVZKBRMCWOIWYDXML(5)UFPVSHAGSVWUFWOR
C(4)WUIDUJCNVTTBERTUN(6)OJUZHVTWKORSVRZSV
VFSQXOCMUWPYTRLGBMCYPOJCLRIYTVFCCMU
W(5)UFPOXCNMCIWMSKPXEDLYIQKDJWIWCJUMVR
CJUMV
(2)RKX(1)WURKPSEEIWZVXULEIOETOOFWKBI
UXPXUGOWLFPWUSCH

(1)WURVFXGJYTHEIZXSQXOBGSVRUDOOJXATBKT
ARVIXPYTMYABMVUFXPXKUJVPLSDVTGNGOSI
GLWURPKFCVGELLRNNGLPYTFVTPXAJOSCWRO
DORWNWSICLFKEMOTGJYCRRAOJVNTODVMNSQ
IVICRBICRUDCSKXYPDMDR(6)OJUZICRVFWXIFP
XIVVIEPYTDOIAVRBOOXWRAKPSZXTZKVROSW
CRCFVEESOLWKT(3)OBXAUXVB

I didn't mark all of them because I'm lazy, but I'll put them right here:

Repeated codes ~

WUID
CJUMVR (twice consecutively in message 2)
OJUZ
CMUW
WUR
SQXO
ICR
PYT
RKX
OBX
VTW
UFP
GSV
WUF
SVR
KPS
XPX
RVF
GJY
RUD

This means that the two messages must use the same logic to solve them.

Well, that's what I have for now. So, who likes logic games and wants to solve this once for all?

Question: Is this topic even going to be open?

EDIT:

Well, let's make some progress here. If I consider the 3 letter+ codes as entire words, maybe I can find some encoded conjuctions, or 1-3 letter words, such as "for", "and", "nor", "but", "or", "yet", "so", "to", etc. Let's try it:

Some encoded words separated by other encoded words :

CJUMVR KX WUR - were KX is a 2-letters word. It can be - "to", "or", "so", "if", "in", "by", "as", "an", "is" or "it".

WUR O RKX - It must be "a" or "I". Or, if I consider "KX" as a separated word, we have "OR", that can be a 2-letters word.

WUF WORC WUID - It seems that we have a 4-letters word here. Well, let's put this aside for now.

OJUZ H VTW - Again , it must be "a" or "I".

ICR B ICR - "a" or "I".

SQXO B GSV - Again, B. It has now even more chances of being "a" or "I".

OBX BTK CMUW - If we just consider that this is a conjunction, we can have: "for", "and", "nor", "but" or "yet". If it isn't a conjunction, there will be too much possibilities to try. So, let's put this aside too.

Ok, these are the ones that I've found. Let's start with KX. If KX starts with "i", in the alphabet, "K" is two cases after "I". We have some options here : K(2) X(3) - Where K is two cases after the real letter, and X is three cases after the real letter, which will give us "iu". Or K(2)X(4), where X is four cases after the real letter, which will give us "it". Maybe the text is encoded entirely in one of these this ways? Let's see if it works with the begin of the 2nd text:

X(2) U(4) K(6 or 8) E(8 or 16) - V Q (E or C) (W or O) - V Q E W - V Q C W - V Q E O - V Q C O. None of these words exists.

X(2) U(3) K(4) E(5) - V R G A - This word doesn't exist.

Well, let's try other sequences:

W(1) U(2) R(3) - XWU

W(3) U(2) R(1) - ZWS

W(-1) U(-2) R(-3) - VSN

W(-1) U(-1) R(-1) - VTQ

W(-3) U(-2) R(-1) - TSQ - I think that I've found something here. Are only the initial letters being encoded by this way? If the initial letter is set by the length of the word, chances are that WUR represents "THE". So, what's the connection between H-U and E-R? In the alphabet, H is 13 cases far from U. The thing become interesting when E is equally 13 cases far from R, just like in H-U. But I don't see why 10 were added in the word's length. Maybe I could try to discover this later.

Well, setting the initial letters by the word's length, we have KX with the initial letter being I. So, it can be IF, IT, IN or IS.

We saw that B can be A or I. If we follow this rule, B will represent A. But we saw too that H can be A or I. In this case, it was +1, not -1. Maybe H makes composition with another word? I don't know.

If we take the code "SQXO B GSV", it will result in "O***/ A / D**". In D**, there must be a vowel in the middle. The problem is seeing how S is connected with a vowel.

Maybe I should try to get some more progress before coming back again, that's it for now.

EDIT2:

I found this site : http://www.aerobushentertainment.com..._next=prev#new

I saw that this guy tried by the same method as me (well, actually he have done much more than I), but it seems that he stopped trying it. His method is very interesting.

It was found the sequence for the 2, 3 and 4 letter words:

2 letter : -2 -3
3 letter : -3, -20, -6
4 letter : -4, -5, -20, -10

Let's decode some words :

WUR = TAL (http://wold.livingsources.org/word/72142315364909779)

PYT = MEN

ICR = FIL

SQXO = OLDE

VR = TO

CMUW = YHAM

OJUZ = KEAP

WUID = SPOT

JWIW = FROM

B = A

GSV = DYP (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dyp)

Well, the problem is that not all the codes fits in this sequence. There must be another way solve this.
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Last edited by PHCC; 11-20-2011 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 11-21-2011   #2
MascaraSnake
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Could you please enlighten us as to what this actually is?
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Old 11-21-2011   #3
742mph
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It's pretty obviously a coded message with no key. The challenge is to figure out how the message was coded and then reverse the process.
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Old 11-21-2011   #4
PHCC
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In 1987, someone posted a message to an internet cryptology list, saying that Caltech Physics Professor Richard Feynman was given three samples of code by a fellow scientist at Los Alamos. Only one of the three was ever solved.

http://web.archive.org/web/200410290...tology/Feynman

The two last ciphers were never solved. In this topic, I'm working on solve them, and it looks promising in my vision. I could find how to decode the 2,3 and 4 letter words. The thing is that in some of them, my method doesn't create words that makes sense. My doubt is if my method is wrong, or the codes that doesn't fit in my method are making composition with another piece of code. I still didn't find how to decode 5, 6 and 7 letter words.

EDIT:

Coming back and trying to solve these ciphers, I think I discovered (not discovered, but yeah) how to uncode the last letter of the words. See:
1 2 3 4 >>> 1+2+3+4 = 10
C M U W
| | | |
Y H A M

In the alphabet, W to M takes 10 cases.

1 2 3 >>> 1+2+3 = 6
W U R
| | |
T A L

In the alphabet, R to L takes 6 cases.

1 + 2 = 3
V R
| |
T O

R to 3 takes 3 cases.

So, following the same method, I should find the last letter of 5, 6, 7... letter words. Then, with the method to find the first letter, I'm able to find the first and the last letter.

2: -2,-3
3: -3,-20,-6
4: -4,-5,-20,-10
5: -5, _, _, _,-15
6: -6, _, _, _, _,-21
7: -7, _, _, _, _, _,-28
8: -8, _, _, _, _, _, _,-36
... and so on.

I can't find any sequence in this.
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Last edited by PHCC; 11-21-2011 at 11:44 PM.
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