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Old 06-14-2014   #61
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the spines on that sprite looks alot like sonicRE's sprites, on another note: how are the super frames? they arent going to have starfish head are they?
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Old 06-14-2014   #62
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MotorRoach. I don't think you should attempt to revolutionise the angle of the sprites- for better or worse, all back frames have developed a consistent style of being seen dead-on even though the camera comes from slightly above. DooM did it that way, SSN did it that way, and every badnik does it that way.

I think you're fine doing as you are and shouldn't stress yourself out about setting a BOLD NEW DIRECTION for spriting back frames, because it'll just look odd at different camera angles and look odd in multiplayer.
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Old 06-14-2014   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorRoach View Post
What's the point of giving perspective for Sonic's back sprites now when none of the other characters have any perspectives in their back angles at all? What I made was literally the same pose and perspective as the vanilla sprite, just with better spines and a tail. How did all this shit come up only now?
Wow, don't flip out, I'm just trying to be constructive. Besides, I never saw your Sonic sprites until now since I don't hang out on IRC.

Speedwagon's edit is a good step. I think the main issue is that you moved the spikes up. By having the spikes go down a little further, it indicates that his head would be slightly tiled up, suggesting a slightly-above-center view.

It's true that a lot of the original sprites are wrong. But it seriously only takes editing a few pixels to trick the brain for this effect. If you make small edits to the spikes, and feet positioning, that should 'do it'.
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Old 06-14-2014   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorRoach View Post
What's the point of giving perspective for Sonic's back sprites now when none of the other characters have any perspectives in their back angles at all? What I made was literally the same pose and perspective as the vanilla sprite, just with better spines and a tail. How did all this shit come up only now?

Like, fuck. It's hard for me to know what everyone is expecting when all I intended for Sonic was just really a revamp. I might be willing to do this whole perspective stuff few people have been suggesting, but I honestly don't know how to apply that to the back angle without revolutionizing the other angles' animations as well. Can someone help me out with that, then? At least for getting the point across to what I should try doing.



Please, help.

EDIT: Speedwagon just sent me an edit of the sprite.


You can copy and paste the sprite's side, it that doesn't help, Then I dont know. BUt say, is the shoes right from the Orignal Sonic Sprite?
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Old 06-14-2014   #65
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I didn't really think about even having moved the spikes up. I actually had made the head a little taller to match the front sprite, otherwise the head would've looked shrunk in comparison if I kept it like the original sprite. That "illusion" just never got into my brain, not with the original sprite, and when making the new version, I'm pretty sure I was staying faithful to how it was in vanilla. So far, the only thing I do want to change in here is his feet positioning.

To sum it up, I'm sorry, but I don't know what the hell you're talking about, it makes less sense the more I try to understand what you're saying. If it really takes editing just a few pixels as you say, then you have my permission to go ahead and demonstrate what you have in mind for the sprite.
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Old 06-14-2014   #66
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Hmm... In SRB2, I've noticed that the ground seems to "Shift up", to give a 3-Dimensional prespective to everything. So maybe angle sonic's feet upward?

---------- Post added at 09:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 AM ----------


Like this :P
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Old 06-14-2014   #67
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I actually prefer the original one that MotorRoach made, the one that shows his sonic character from center view rather than top down. While I do understand Phil's example, I prefer it the way Roach did, with the original srb2 shoes facing forward. Also, the gloves on the sprite don't seem quite right, not sure how much you could do with that limited space, but it's something to keep in mind.
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Old 06-14-2014   #68
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You people are making such a fuss about this. Remember Sonic Advance 2's special stages? Those had similar perspective issues. Besides, this whole above head perspective thing really doesn't matter much in the end considering it'd only slightly improve the single player experience and look odd in multiplayer.

This game was never aiming for realism. The sprites have always been fine a MotorRoach simply made improved ones that still stayed true to the style. Since when did we need a new perspective to reinvent the game's art or whatever?
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Old 06-14-2014   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorRoach View Post

EDIT: Speedwagon just sent me an edit of the sprite.

Classic SpeedWagon.

It looks better, though I really like the static quills in your original sprite.
Keep up the great work.
~MotorRoach Sonic for Vanilla~
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Old 06-14-2014   #70
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Here's what I suggest. Fuck everything and retreat to the one used in the ACZ screenshot and continue from there.
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Old 06-14-2014   #71
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If Iceman didn't come over I'd say that you should put the normal feet back; so pretty much the same thing as him. No reason to stress over shoes..
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Old 06-14-2014   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorRoach View Post
To sum it up, I'm sorry, but I don't know what the hell you're talking about, it makes less sense the more I try to understand what you're saying. If it really takes editing just a few pixels as you say, then you have my permission to go ahead and demonstrate what you have in mind for the sprite.
Example right here of a slightly downward view:



If it wasn't, the background foot wouldn't be slightly raised, for example, and it would look more like this:


Also see how much higher the spines point in these little sprites?

STND2's head is a little surreal, in that the face is drawn straight-on, but the head has a bit of an above-view tilt to it. This is kind of a compromise in that in single player, you're seeing the sprites from slightly above, while in things like match mode, you're seeing them straight on. Having this little bit of 'cubism' (for lack of a better word), makes them appear more acceptable in both views.
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Last edited by SSNTails; 06-14-2014 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 06-14-2014   #73
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I tried to make sense of srb2's perspective once.


Never again...
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Old 06-14-2014   #74
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Tell me again about how pointed down quills have to do with perspective.
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Old 06-14-2014   #75
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Looks great, MotoRoach! Except for his left middle quill (I should note, mine above isn't correct, either). The right quill is correct because the quills point 'outward' a little bit, giving the background one some extra height to it.

The green lines shouldn't be parallel, that's a parallel projection. Perspective has the lines all converge at a horizon point.

I recommend studying the Sonic X-Treme sprites, those can be VERY useful for figuring out things like quill placement.
Edit: Or, just take Jeck Jim's classic Sonic model and rotate him in 45 degree increments and overlay it translucency with your sprites while you work!



This is probably somewhat how the lines should look, they all converge at a common point offscreen. You'll see the original drawing could use some changes. ;)


I know this can appear nitpicky to some people, but what I'm really saying here is, "your work is awesome, here is how you can make it even more awesome and further improve your skills".
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Last edited by SSNTails; 06-14-2014 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 06-14-2014   #76
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SSN, perspective lines like that don't work unless you actually have a perspective point to mark all the lines from.



Looking at your picture, your lines are far from connecting to a single point. Besides, from what I learned, single point perspectives are better applied to whole scenarios or just in a picture with a very extreme perspective, not something slight like an angled sprite. The change would be too minimal and insignificant to even make a difference.



And besides, not to worry, the back diagonal sprite does has some perspective to it~ (Although I was really asking for help on the back sprite)
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Old 06-14-2014   #77
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Yeah, everything you said about perspective is right, but putting perspective on the sprites help to make them 'pop' a bit for a 3D game, and look less flat.
(Also, my example lines were not intended to be accurate, I suck with a mouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorRoach View Post
This is awesome!

Do you have the original sprite file of the back view from the ACZ shot? I think that's the best one, and I could see about making a few small edits to it.
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Old 06-14-2014   #78
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Here ya go.
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Old 06-14-2014   #79
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What do you think? I also fixed the asymmetry with the quills that dates back to the original sprite.



I also noticed you mirrored the legs, heheh...
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Old 06-14-2014   #80
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In my opinion, I wouldn't like to see the backframe of sonic like the wind is pushing his quills forward:

{{{{{{}}}}}}

I like the first backframe that MotorRoach made. And also, why not putting the same feet positioning like Chuckles?

Like this:
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