• Do not use Works in Progress as a way of avoiding the releases system! Works in Progress can be used for sharing early betas and for getting suggestions for improvement. Releases of finished content are not allowed in this forum! If you would like to submit a finished addon, click here for instructions on how to do so.

New Match System Editing Q&A

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mystic

Member
Okay, so the first OLDC came out, and it's become pretty clear to me that everyone simply does not understand the details involved in the new match system. So, in order to try to help, I'm going to outline the systems I used when making the official maps. I encourage you all to ask questions so I can revise this information to place on the Wiki because it's clearly needed.

First off, sector layout is important. It is basically required that your map not be symmetrical. Symmetrical maps simply do not work in the new system because of the necessity of placing 6 weapon tiles in different locations, and they also need to be in distinct areas so the player can always go find the weapon he wants. If the map is symmetrical you'll either end up with multiple weapon tiles providing an excess, or the player will have to guess which spawn is which which can cause issues. Recursive sector layout is even better because it provides multiple paths to each of the rooms.

The new match system relies on a bunch of different object types that must be used carefully for proper balance. Some weapons are stronger than others or easily spammed, and some weapons require ammo or lots of rings to be effective.

Automatic - Automatic requires a lot of rings to be effective. Since Infinity is no more, it's generally a good idea to place a large cache of rings somewhere on the map (generally somewhat away from the Auto spawn) so the player can actually use Automatic effectively. Multiple Super Ring boxes work well for this, but you can also have a long line of rings like the one in the stream in TCZ. Also, Automatic is the weapon ring most restricted by ammo, because even with 30 shots per pickup it's quite easy to run out. Make sure to place Automatic ammo pickups throughout the map so the player has a chance to restock without going back to the weapon tile pickup.

Bounce - Bounce is good in small, cramped areas. As it's quite weak elsewhere it's generally a good idea to place the tile in an area where it would be mildly effective. Bounce is probably the weakest weapon ring of the set, but if your level has a lot of walls or pillars be prepared for it to be quite strong. If Bounce is exceptionally strong in your level, I personally suggest restricting the amount of ammo you provide so players cannot excessively spam it. Otherwise you can generally find this as a very safe weapon to place in any map.

Explosion - Explosion is a very strong weapon that players should be happy to obtain. As such, make sure you don't put too much ammo for it in the stage or players can just spam it constantly. Often it's a good idea to place Explosion on the opposite side of the map as Scatter since they're the most popular weapons, although this is not really necessary. Also, note that the more open your map is, the less effective Explosion will be.

Grenade - Grenade is the best weapon in the game. Period. The only thing restricting the player from abusing it to hell is the low ammo amount. All of the official levels have very little grenade ammo, frequently only one pickup far away from the tile, for this reason. If you provide a large amount of grenade ammo the best tactic is immediately to thok everywhere spamming grenades and rack up points as players run into them. As such, you need to be VERY careful when placing grenades on the map. They're extremely strong but useful for the balance of the rest of the weapons in small doses.

Rail - Rail is the classic example of a weapon that is the best in theory but in practice isn't quite as godlike as you'd expect. Rail works best in large, open areas but isn't completely terrible otherwise. Rail requires little ammo to be effective, so don't provide too many ammo pickups for it or it'll feel like you have infinite ammo. You may want to provide slightly more ammo in an open map because people are more likely to use it, but that's more up to the level designer.

Scatter - Scatter is a powerful close-range weapon and is desired by the majority of the people playing. As such, make sure it's placed on the opposite side of the map from other desirable items to make the player use the full map. Scatter ammo pickups give quite a bit of ammo so be careful with providing too many of them. Note that Scatter is much better in cramped areas, like Explosion and Bounce, but it also works great as suppression fire down long hallways.

Beyond the weapons and ammo, there are a ton of other things to worry about:

Monitors should be used liberally. Super Ring boxes should be common throughout your level, and you should have around 3-4 WRMs and 1-2 SRMs. Do NOT put a ? Monitor in place of a SRM. The ? box does not weight the powerups and will cause exceptionally common Recyclers and Teleporters, which disrupt gameplay dramatically. Note that the Recycler is on the WRM table, so increasing the WRMs on the map will make the Recycler more common. In the official maps almost all of the levels have only one SRM; only place a second one if your map is exceptionally large or has a lot of space to place items. Frequently the SRM will end up as one of the focus points of the map, so make sure it's far away from other powerful items like the Scatter and Explosion weapon tiles. Finally, personally I suggest using Super Rings as the base item for the WRM, and a shield for the base item for the SRM, to help distinguish them for the player. It's generally pretty obvious after a few rounds which is which, but the extra aid is generally nice.

Emerald spawn points should be placed in large quantities throughout the map. Placing them in alcoves and corners is fun, but don't overdo it or nobody will ever find the emeralds. Remember that emerald spawn points aren't something that are going to be frequently used specifically, so don't place them in areas that are particularly hard to reach.

Place rings throughout your map. Be careful not to place too few or too many. Too few and nobody can fire, too many and nobody will ever run out. Remember that players will be using this stock of rings to fire everything from Automatic to Rail, if you add a lot of rings people will gravitate towards weapons like auto, and vice versa. Again, as I said before, be SURE to place Super Ring boxes throughout your map as well. Not only do they aid in the ring count, they also prevent someone with Attraction from taking every ring on the map easily.

Make sure ALL your deathmatch spawns are near at least some rings, and also make sure you have a Player 1 Start to prevent crashes if something goes wrong.

If there's any questions about this or aspects of specific maps you'd like me to clarify, be my guest. A very large amount of time was spent testing the official maps and tweaking them to the way they work now, so I definitely know the struggle in getting this type of balance to work, but if you don't put forth the effort it is very easy to end up with a subpar stage.
 
WRM = Weak Random Monitor. Give the monitor the Deaf flag to activate this type of respawn.
SRM = Strong Random Monitor. Give the monitor the old Hard flag (bit 0x0004) to activate this type of respawn.

Basically, the different types of random respawn provide different items. SRM provides better items than WRM. For those that care, here are the actual odds:

Super Ring - 8/32 WRM
Super Sneakers - 7/32 WRM
Whirlwind Shield - 6/32 WRM, 6/32 SRM
Elemental Shield - 6/32 WRM, 6/32 SRM
Force Shield - 2/32 WRM, 6/32 SRM
Attraction Shield - 1/32 WRM, 4/32 SRM
Armageddon Shield - 4/32 SRM
Invincibility - 3/32 SRM
Teleporter - 1/32 WRM
Recycler - 1/32 WRM
1-Up - 3/32 SRM

If you want to test out more specifically what these numbers mean, here's some simple Python code that lets you input the number of SRMs and WRMs and it'll output the average amount of spawns per minute for each monitor type. I used this when setting up the odds ^_^()

Code:
def main():
    sentinel = "y"
    while sentinel == "y":
        strong_box = input("Strong Monitors: ")
        weak_box = input("Weak Monitors: ")
        print ""
        weak_odds = [8.0, 7.0, 6.0, 6.0, 2.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 1.0, 0.0]
        strong_odds = [0.0, 0.0, 6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 4.0, 4.0, 3.0, 0.0, 0.0, 3.0]
        string_list = ["Super Ring", "Super Sneakers", "Whirlwind Shield", \
              "Elemental Shield", "Force Shield", "Attraction Shield", \
              "Armageddon Shield", "Invincibility", "Teleporter", "Recycler", \
                "1-Up"]
        for index in (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10):
            calc = strong_box * strong_odds[index] /16 + weak_box * weak_odds[index] /16
            print string_list[index], ":", calc
        print ""
        sentinel = raw_input("y to continue: ")
        print ""
        
main()
 
If I recall correctly:

WRM = Weak Random Monitor
SRM = Strong Random Monitor

I had seen both definitions in the Wiki. But I don't know how to set both in the map and why one is "weak" and other "strong". Until now, I have opened official maps and copied the flags for my monitors in my maps, but I'm still unsure how both monitors work out.

EDIT:

I should learn to read and write faster. >.>
 
While it's not required by the engine, I highly suggest you use all 6 weapons in every match/ctf stage because the weapon balance assumes you have access to all the other weapons available to you. Several of the weapons are counters to each other. Particularly the short range weapons are trumped by rail sniping, and grenades are a good foil to people trying to close in and use scatter on you.

Just be mindful of which weapons are good in your stage and make sure to provide the proper amount of ammunition, especially for weapons that are spammable. While you want to encourage people to use the good weapons, you don't want the game to just break down into mashing fire and hoping you hit something. Ammunition limits weapon abuse by giving a limit to how often a specific weapon can be fired, it's important to use it properly.
 
My idea is that this topic should've been made BEFORE the contest submission period was up. I, for one, didn't know how the random monitors worked.
 
Well I was under the impression that if people didn't know they would have asked. Clearly I was wrong and instead they all used ? monitors to create the Recycler every 30 seconds we've got now.
 
If you want to test out more specifically what these numbers mean, here's some simple Python code that lets you input the number of SRMs and WRMs and it'll output the average amount of spawns per minute for each monitor type. I used this when setting up the odds ^_^()
Or if you'd rather not muck with python, here it is in convenient web site form.

4/1 WRM/SRM is what Mystic himself used when calculating odds, for what it's worth.
 
Last edited:
Actual stage numbers (I think):

Jade Valley Zone - 3 WRM, 1 SRM
Noxious Factory Zone - 4 WRM, 1 SRM
Tidal Palace Zone - 3 WRM, 1 SRM
Thunder Citadel Zone - 3 WRM, 2 SRM
Desolate Twilight Zone - 2 WRM, 1 SRM
Infernal Cavern Zone - 2 WRM, 1 SRM
Sapphire Falls Zone - 3 WRM, 1 SRM
Meadow Match Zone - 2 WRM, 1 SRM
 
Can a map be made in semi-1.09.4 style where the map uses just the panels for the weapon rings?

Would it be received around a 5/10 rating area?
 
Could a map be made like that in theory? Yes.

Would it be any good? No.

glaber, I really have to ask. Have you actually PLAYED match in 2.0? If you had I'd think you could answer your own question as to why the ammo is an essential part of the weapon balance.

Just scroll up and read my OP again. I explain, in quite a large amount of detail, what the items all are and the proper balance is. If you deviate too much from that balance the whole thing breaks down.
 
Have I actually played 2.0 Match? Yes.

Have I played enough to get a grip on it? Not yet.

In theory, it would be like building Doom maps structured for SRB2, but the problem here is I'm still beginning at making Doom Maps too. You can see where I'm at Doom wise when Community Chest 4 comes out. I'm map 16.
 
Last edited:
Well, what would be a good size for the average Match map? I usually can't decide what to do with the thok barrier, and I fear my stages are too big or small.
 
Well, the issue is that's a variable depending on the number of players in the game. You can notice this issue in the official levels. Noxious Factory works great for 4-6 people, but with 12 the level simply breaks down. Tidal Palace, on the other hand, feels kinda empty with 4 people but handles 12 relatively well.

The size of the stage really can be whatever you want, just remember that most people are playing your stage with anywhere from 4 to 16 people. I tend to try to shoot for 8 as a target number.
 
Of course, lots of people would probably be bothered about this one, but I think it doesn't hurt to add an Eggman box as 1/32 in a SRM, no?
We COULD actually transform the WRM and SRM into 2 "?" Monitors that would use the same tactic. Like that, you'll never know what you'll get until you pop it up. And since it's gonna ALWAYS be a good thing, I don't think it'll hurt either...
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Who is viewing this thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Back
Top