Nostalgia

In one of my sleepy moments, I decided to look at the posts of old, and what did I find? Great differences! (Relatively) Intelligent people making intelligent debate. The people making choices about the direction of the game! A 2-line post by Mystic! You rarely see anything like this anymore. You can almost feel the community spirit of old. It only makes me wish that I had been confident enough to go on forums at the time...

Seriously, people, have a look for yourselves, see the community of old, get perspective!

(God I sound corny...)

And this is SRB2 related, how?

I've read almost all the threads starting from the last page, all the way to, what, page 5 maybe?

And Hey!

I like Mystic's modern wall-O-texts!

I wish I was around during that time. Things seemed allot better back then. Things were starting to get bad when I joined. Now they are worse.

Mmm, I'd bet there were less posts back then, though that may not have been a bad thing.

Also, they still had n00bs, even if it was a lesser amount.

I'd say we're about here in terms of noobs now:

(It's a cheap line graph)
We're recovering, but still quite infested.

And while Mystic's big speeches are great, just think: He used to be able to get the point across without them.

I'd say that we've got more n00bs than ever now.

It's just that the mod/admin activity around here that cracks down on a n00b before he can post more.

Bigger community = more n00bs = regular disruption of forum activity is more obvious.

The admins must counter this annoying chain with another annoying chain of stricter rules. It is, unfortunately, the only way to keep this place from turning into a hell hole.

Warpshade said:

Seriously, people, have a look for yourselves, see the community of old, get perspective!

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Community? WHAT community?

I don't see the humor.



I read through some of those posts a long while ago. It almost makes me a little jealous. My time usually seems to be when things are just starting to fall apart. >_>


Also, Warpshade, I think it's different.

Because if you think about it, noobs are at an all time high. They've increased since 1.9.3, not decreased. The noob outbreak is standing strong because while the admins are banning more rapidly, SRB2 is spreading out quickly -- but to the wrong kind. I'm certain that SRB2 will pick up to a decent standard, but it still has a little ways to go before the ascend.

Hmm... Maybe you're right. I had a year gap between ISPs, I 'disappeared' some point during the 1.09.3.xx betas. That could be why I see it differently.

Here's hoping for the average-out and eventual downfall of SRB2-noobism.

I'm trying to show new people srb2, but my local community mainly falls into the 'I think Sonic is for little kiddies' category, and aren't having any of it.

Warpshade said:

Mystic's big speeches are great

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Ya. Not to many of them anymore, huh? Shame.

Blue Warrior said:

SRB2 is spreading out quickly -- but to the wrong kind.

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It's spreading out to a cross-breed of n00bs, idiots, dorks, and fans with an unhealthy obbsecion with the game. Together they create Ultra N00bs: N00bs with the power to single-handedly tear apart years of great foruming.

Warpshade said:

My local community mainly falls into the 'I think Sonic is for little kiddies' category

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I know how you feel. Just because Sonic's Sega glory days are over, doesn't mean he should be limited to little kids.

You know, you're not going to get very far by accepting the undesirable fact as concrete, countering such things with concrete measures, and presenting the whole idea as some sort of situation meant to shun newcomers and the community, alike. And especially the new people coming in here.

Of course, you're also not going to get very far by preaching exactly that, or doing little about it.

There's a lot more at stake than just newcomers appearing to be duller than years' past. If one really wanted it all to end, a new set of strict rules just isn't going to do it. Face it: you're going to have to do a lot more to end it all. So much more that you can't possibly do it in the lifetime of this community. I'm personally accepting that the community as a whole has gotten a little duller lately, and it's not going to change anytime soon. The reason behind me saying that is that imposing new measures much like the ones we have just isn't productive. You can impose measures to control it, maybe, but you can't possibly expect to improve it to a spectacular level unless you work hard for a miracle.

You're going to have to do a lot more than that. Strict rules? Think higher. Posts to preach and give advice? Think higher. Anything that can be possibly be done in this community? Think higher. It's a scope that goes beyond the MB and IRC. You just can't expect to see a solution while working with this limited scope. It's not within the lifetime of this community. Although I find conflict with them, that's why I don't fight against the rules.

Perhaps I'm calling the kettle black here, but it's a point that I wanted to get across. Also, I find that communication by text just isn't adequate for this post. I just can't feel it. It annoys me more dearly than one would think.

Digiku hit the nail on the head, with that post. Rules rules rules, and not enough to follow, eh? If there are even stricter rules, more of us are going to pay (because everyone makes mistakes, even intelligible people), not the noobs. If they don't even READ the rules by now, I don't see why they would pay attention to even stricter rules.

You guys gotta use your heads, especially if the noobs don't.

Digiku said:

You know, you're not going to get very far by accepting the undesirable fact as concrete, countering such things with concrete measures, and presenting the whole idea as some sort of situation meant to shun newcomers and the community, alike. And especially the new people coming in here.

Of course, you're also not going to get very far by preaching exactly that, or doing little about it.

There's a lot more at stake than just newcomers appearing to be duller than years' past. If one really wanted it all to end, a new set of strict rules just isn't going to do it. Face it: you're going to have to do a lot more to end it all. So much more that you can't possibly do it in the lifetime of this community. I'm personally accepting that the community as a whole has gotten a little duller lately, and it's not going to change anytime soon. The reason behind me saying that is that imposing new measures much like the ones we have just isn't productive. You can impose measures to control it, maybe, but you can't possibly expect to improve it to a spectacular level unless you work hard for a miracle.

You're going to have to do a lot more than that. Strict rules? Think higher. Posts to preach and give advice? Think higher. Anything that can be possibly be done in this community? Think higher. It's a scope that goes beyond the MB and IRC. You just can't expect to see a solution while working with this limited scope. It's not within the lifetime of this community. Although I find conflict with them, that's why I don't fight against the rules.

Perhaps I'm calling the kettle black here, but it's a point that I wanted to get across. Also, I find that communication by text just isn't adequate for this post. I just can't feel it. It annoys me more dearly than one would think.

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Digiku, you are completely correct. This post has inspired me to try and do something about this.




I'll be making my post on this issue later, when my idea's been fully plotted out.

Honestly, Digi, the main reason why I've used tighter rules to attempt to clean up one aspect of the problem in the community. That problem is the simple fact that nobody who joins actually reads the rules, FAQ, and Wiki. The hope is that by banning people who don't, the slightly intelligent ones will actually do so. If they don't and keep coming back, they can simply receive a permban.

The main issue here is that SRB2 is currently stagnant in the official release, and will remain so for at least a year. The main game itself has been stagnant since 1.09.0 came out on New Years 2006, with only minor additions and fixes since then as far as the single player game is concerned.

At this point I still sorta regret releasing Mystic Realm 4 when I did, as it would have been a major boon if I'd released it later than 1.09 came out for some additional content instead of giving everyone everything at once.

A few people are finally starting to make new content, but it's taking forever, as it should, as any good new content is a long, tedious process. Pretty much the only decent new stuff we get around here is a few contest entries that don't suck, and that's it.

Those of you who think the community is going down the crapper, help us make it better. Fretting that the community is stagnant and full of idiots isn't going to help things. Simply making contest entries, and some decent, original content would go a LONG way towards making the community better.

And I apologize for that. I do respect what you're trying to do, and as I said: the reason why I don't specifically fight against the whole subject of the rules is that doing so is just as unproductive as I claim the subject of rules themselves to be. Given the usual provisions, it's actually foolish. I'm not saying that it's foolish to fight against authority in general; absolutely not. It's just that you're going to need a lot more than proof to point any major conflict out effectively. I'm serious. Moreover, I never see anybody that actually does that. People I see, you name 'em. Once I start making political references, I think that point will make a lot more sense (and I sincerely hope that I won't have to do that.)

But what else is spectacularly more productive? Certainly something that none of us can possibly do in a message board. I don't think I can even do it. Therefore, rules and other measures probably are the most productive thing we can do. Me lashing out at that would be major finger-pointing. Both sides could dish out as much evidence as they wanted to argue their point, but it would still be bickering back and forth. I can't say anything further on that.

(I'm interested in seeing what you've got though, BW. I enjoy the sort of thing.)

On the other hand, I'm also thinking on really high expectations. I'll admit that's far away. Too far away, even. I'm not talking specifically about this community, either. Hilariously, I probably just brought this conversation in a circle by saying all this, but the difference this time around is that you've got a perspective, now. Rules may not be (and probably aren't) the holy grail, but what else can we do right now? In this scope, I'll admit we just have to cope with it and make do. The community can still be made better in several circles. I do a lot with my time these days, but I respect that.

No, I won't elaborate on these higher points. Sorry. One just can't play around with that sort of thing.

I think what all these words are trying to say is that n00bish behavior is not a problem exclusive to this board, rather it is a product of today's culture. You're going to have lots of n00bs, everywhere.

Mystic said:

making contest entries, and some decent, original content would go a LONG way towards making the community better

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While at times this is completly true, the issue is that the overall IQ of the internet is below the "moron" level. Newcomers usually don't think to read rules, the FAQ, or the Wiki because they believe that they are better than that, and can suffice without viewing any of them. Look at the Wiki, for a great example. It was a good idea, well executed, and is being worked on by many, yet a good chunk of newcomers completly ignore it's presence.

Spazzo said:

While at times this is completly true, the issue is that the overall IQ of the internet is below the "moron" level. Newcomers usually don't think to read rules, the FAQ, or the Wiki because they believe that they are better than that, and can suffice without viewing any of them. Look at the Wiki, for a great example. It was a good idea, well executed, and is being worked on by many, yet a good chunk of newcomers completly ignore it's presence.

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And this is what the stricter ruleset is designed to address. We've had a monstrous amount of bans in the past few weeks, and honestly, I think we're actually getting somewhere.

Yes, we still get retarded questions constantly, but they get banned constantly as well.

I do think we need to rework the website a tad to make it clear where resources are, and where to get help on making stuff. "Wiki" is not a term that clearly explains what it is to a newbie to the internet. I'm thinking we should link it from the editing section as well, explaining what it is and what it contains.

If you've got more ideas to make the less idiotic people actually find the resources they need easier, be my guest. I don't care about the utter morons, I only care about the people who are interested in learning something.

Complaining that the community isn't what it used to be is a moot point. We can only go forward. However, I'd like to see forward as a positive direction instead of a negative one.