Single player collab discussion thread

D00D64 said:

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Again, remember that he's supposed to be a MINI boss. I realize I'm just restating the obvious, but still >_>. He's not going to take an entire 8 hits. He'll only take 2 or 3. And after the first hit he'd most likely go into pinch mode so it's not as dull(I can understand you saying how dull he is and boring etc., but still. He's not a full-fledged boss so he's not supposed to be the most exciting thing in the world).
I mean, the only things to fix from what I'm getting is make the missile attack NOT aim directly at the player, but rather just target a few spots and shoot missiles there simultaneously, then repeat. And to fix his spinjump, just have him move across once or twice and THEN stop. But I will admit his vulnerability time should be lengthened. It's just ... unforgiving. If I could SOC, I could easily plan my own attacks for him that probably wouldn't leave you so bored, but I can't be assed to learn SOCing, and as 742mph is the only person who seems to be working on bosses, it's all up to him, xD.
To sum up, from what you're saying it seems he really only needs a few minor tweaks for you to be content.

If he's supposed to be a miniboss, 742 need to reduce the amount of hits he takes to offset his long invulnerability time, like you said. That way the hit-once style would actually work.

But the vulnerability time still needs to be lengthened, and he needs to show a sign that he's about to enter that state, and have a little more variance in his attacks.

Actually, the steampunk Metal was supposed to be the act 3 boss according to Whackjood's concept post (the one we voted on), but I suppose it could be used for a miniboss instead, depending on what people in general think. As of now, I'm working on an updated version that will give you the opportunity to damage Metal twice in one vulnerability period, add a shockwave to the second pinch attack, and a couple of other things.

(EDIT: My best time for the new version without the use of any cheats is 55 seconds. Even compensating for the fact that I'm the creator, that sounds significantly better, doesn't it?)

742mph said:

Actually, the steampunk Metal was supposed to be the act 3 boss according to Whackjood's concept post...

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Coulda swore we earlier discussed that he was being downgraded. Regardless, if he's gonna be a FULL boss he's gonna need a major rework.

Kirblord23 said:

Coulda swore we earlier discussed that he was being downgraded. Regardless, if he's gonna be a FULL boss he's gonna need a major rework.

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He would have been downgraded if my first SEZ3 boss was included, but it wasn't, so until someone creates another boss for SEZ (if they do), this is the Act 3 boss. Also, would you mind explaining how you think he'll need reworking? He has the same amount of attacks as, say, Brak Eggman, and his difficulty seems appropriate from what people are saying.

Bosses shouldn't dance around for a while then let you hit it. Every single one of your bosses has been exactly that.
They should run around and attack you, putting up shields when necessary.

The Silver Sonic from Sonic 2 jumped around, but left himself vulnerable after attacking since he was the attack himself.

742mph said:

He would have been downgraded if my first SEZ3 boss was included, but it wasn't, so until someone creates another boss for SEZ (if they do), this is the Act 3 boss. Also, would you mind explaining how you think he'll need reworking? He has the same amount of attacks as, say, Brak Eggman, and his difficulty seems appropriate from what people are saying.

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If he's going to be the full boss, he needs to be redone. As D00D already stated, he's just ... tedious. He suffers from your long-boss syndrome. His attacks last forever and you can never hit him during any of them. And when you CAN hit him, he's not vulnerable for a very long time, so usually you'll miss your chance.

Kirblord23 said:

If he's going to be the full boss, he needs to be redone. As D00D already stated, he's just ... tedious. He suffers from your long-boss syndrome. His attacks last forever and you can never hit him during any of them. And when you CAN hit him, he's not vulnerable for a very long time, so usually you'll miss your chance.

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You are aware that his vulnerability time will be lengthened and you'll be able to hit him multiple times during it in the next version, right? I've proven that the updated form can be beaten in under a minute, which doesn't sound very tedious to me.

742mph said:

You are aware that his vulnerability time will be lengthened and you'll be able to hit him multiple times during it in the next version, right? I've proven that the updated form can be beaten in under a minute, which doesn't sound very tedious to me.

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How was I supposed to know that when I've never sen the updated version? Nevertheless, that's good to hear. Though I do hope you're changing more than just his vulnerability time.

Kirblord23 said:

How was I supposed to know that when I've never sen the updated version? Nevertheless, that's good to hear. Though I do hope you're changing more than just his vulnerability time.

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So far, the vulnerability time has been lengthened (and you can hit him 3 times during it if you're really really good), the pinch attack has had a shockwave added, the attacks are shorter, and he spins in place for a little less than a second after an attack is finished to indicate that he's about to become vulnerable. Those are all of the changes I've made so far.

(EDIT: Version 2 available for download in the submission topic. All of the changes mentioned above are present, although you can no longer hit him three times per vulnerability period. The boss can still be destroyed in under a minute, though.)

Since nobody appears to have really gotten anywhere with the Egg Skater yet, I thought I'd post this sketch of mine of the boss here in case it'd help:

More like Egg Utopia's Boss from Sonic Advance 2.

EDIT: I have a suggestion for CDZ2.

The Act would end in a huge Cumulonimbus, like you would have to navigate your way out of the gigantic cloud, like in Sonic Adventure's Windy Valley.

It's still pretty much the same. He takes forever to attack and while he can be beaten faster it still doesn't mean he's as much fun. I'd recommend the following changes:
1. Shorten the jump attack, again. Make it so he goes across twice and stops. Also increase the height of which he jumps so you can actually stand under him, like it looks like you're supposed to, since as it is now you see him jump and think "Oh, a safe spot must be under him." and then you go there and get hit anyway.
2. Shorten the spin attack. Only have him spin across once, that way two of his attacks aren't blatant clones.
3. If possible, change up the missile attack so instead of homing in on the player, have him shoot a couple waves of 3 or 4 missiles at randomized places simultaneously. That way the player has to actually think about dodging. Or even just scrap it for a new move altogether.
4. Have an indicator that he's about to attack. All of a sudden he just randomly spins at you. At least Silver and Mecha Sonic showed they were getting ready to attack. Have him spin in place, or something.

That's personally what I think would make this boss a bit better. My idea for a "new move" was to have Iron Sonic float up and then have him fly across once, dropping missiles. Of course he'd be low enough to where you could still hit him though. That'd be one of those "risk Vs. reward" moves Sonic bosses are known for.

Eh, after some argument in #srb2fun yesterday over whether the Egg Skater boss should be made up of one or multiple objects based on the design I posted earlier in this thread, I later drew up an alternative Egg Skater concept design without such monsterous legs:

Of course, the actual boss design doesn't strictly have to look like what I'm going for here at all (nor does it have to look like the other one) =V

By the way, from now on, please convert your MP3s to OGGs before uploading them to the Dropbox. If you don't have a program that can do this, I recommend Audacity.

If anyone has a problem with this for some reason, feel free to voice it here, but this is really one of those "why weren't we doing this already" things, especially since we would have had to eventually convert them to OGG anyway, and it saves space on the Dropbox, which should be kept as small as possible.

(In case you're wondering, MIDI files are still fine, they're not space hogs in the first place)

Just a note, I deleted my original tracks from the DropBox.

If I feel inspired for whatever reason, I'll (try to) make new tracks using Albeton Live (I recommend it, Ultimate.)

So much more flexible than Fruity Loops...

Well now, that's certainly interesting. I'm not sure how alive this project even is anymore, though. Whackjood just sort of pulled a cut and run, organization fell apart, and I don't think anyone has been doing any level building.

Though, Zap610 and I are still working on Gravity Garden, though we've pulled it a little away from it's collab roots in a few ways. It was sort of our collective dream in the first place, so we're going to make it happen regardless of the fate of this collaboration.

I might do Honeyhive in the future, anyways, so I appreciate the job that you're doing. I am curious though, about a few changes that could be done. I'll shoot you a message in a little, I have something to be doing.

Yeah, the collab seems pretty much dead now.

...and just as well - wasn't really intending my Haunted House Zone (or rather, Eerie Fortress Zone) to be part of this collab in the first place - the only reason I suggested it being because of all the nagging certain people did to push me to do so. x_x

As for the level itself, I'm not sure when I'll ever get to making Acts 1 and 2 anyway, eh. If I was to eventually work on HHZ/EFZ at last in the future though, no doubt I'll probably somewhat pull it away from its collab roots too.

Monster Iestyn said:

Yeah, the collab seems pretty much dead now.

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Does that mean I should stop working on those bosses? :(

Let's face it, this community is no longer interested in map-making. With this collab being "pretty much" dead, and the OLDC having 80% maps made by devs...

Well, I hope it'll get better after 2.1 will be released.