Should Super Forms be in Single Player/Coop?

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The only character that I feel should get a Super form is Knuckles, and that's simply because it exists(along with the fact that no Super Emeralds are involved), and it isn't actually as powerful as Super Sonic(which balances it). While it may seem like Sonic is supposed to be the "Hard" game, Knuckles actually has it harder in many places. The lowered jump height, along with with many walls being unclimbable often make things more difficult for him(he also gets the hardest of the ERZ1 character paths). The only time where Knuckles really has it easier than Sonic is probably ACZ1. Even then, many will likely have Super Sonic by then, whose float ability breaks the level as much as Tails and Knuckles.

Note that Super Knuckles not only runs slower than Super Sonic, but also gets no extra jump height, so it wouldn't be all that broken, really. However, this could conflict with Multiplayer Super Knuckles, but the color difference could distinguish them I suppose.

I'd also like to point out that Super Knuckles was also probably appropriate in S3K, due to Knuckles taking his own paths; often even having completely different acts. And when he shared the same path, his glide and climb occasionally didn't help much(I don't recall it helping in Flying Battery much).

Lastly, it is somewhat confusing to those who played the classic games, and then play SRB2 for the first time. When I collected all the emeralds as Knuckles, I was rather surprised that I couldn't go Super; I at first figured that it simply wasn't added yet(along with his sprites), but I then later found out he was going getting a Super form at all.
 
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abiT said:
I do not understand man... Why the hell you want more superforms in coop?
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I just wanna enjoy another super character instead of just Sonic, I don't even enjoy playing as Sonic much kill me if ya want

Besides, everyone can go super in match, so, as I said, super forms in coop could be a cheat :I
 
Titanium said:
The only character that I feel should get a Super form is Knuckles, and that's simply because it exists(along with the fact that no Super Emeralds were involved), and it isn't actually as powerful as Super Sonic(which balances it).
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Super Knuckles has Super Sonic's speed and jumping height, combined with invincibility and the already near-overpowered climbing ability. And getting the Chaos Emeralds isn't hard for him, anyways.
I don't see how it's balanced with Sonic, the one that actually has to do a decent amount of work to earn them.

This might change in a future release (NiGHTS-styled Special Stages), but I still think that Tails and Knuckles are overpowered enough in most situations of the campaign.
 
I've got an idea.

In Sonic 3&K, all three characters could go super. And though some had more powers than others, some had certain other advantages that others didn't.

For example, you could collect all seven Chaos Emeralds and the Super Emeralds as Tails, and he'll have those god-like birds killing everything on the freaking screen. But Super Tails does not have an extra boss specifically for him.

If Knuckles goes super, he goes faster and becomes invincible. Then in Hyper form he can kill robots by ramming into the walls. Neither of these forms offered all that much of a leap in power compared to Sonic's forms, which could jump as high as he would with the lightning shield and could kill everything on the screen with his double jump.

Knuckles had a boss specifically for him, but you could fight it without getting all the emeralds, and wasn't not nearly as challenging as Super Sonic's boss.

So... Why not give Super Sonic a character-specific final boss to fight? I think this would justify allowing Tails and Knuckles to go super.
 
Kyasarin said:
Super Knuckles has Super Sonic's speed and jumping height, combined with invincibility and the already near-overpowered climbing ability. And getting the Chaos Emeralds isn't hard for him, anyways.
I don't see how it's balanced with Sonic, the one that actually has to do a decent amount of work to earn them.

This might change in a future release (NiGHTS-styled Special Stages), but I still think that Tails and Knuckles are overpowered enough in most situations of the campaign.
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I was referring to S3K Super Knuckles, who's jump height does not increase(so that he can't get to Sonic's path). Super Knuckles also has a lower run speed than Super Sonic's(it is around in between; try picking up a Super Sneaker box as Super Knuckles).

And the existing special stages aren't the final design, although it is true that Knuckles can do SS6 and SS7 much easier than Sonic at the moment.
 
GrayAngel said:
So... Why not give Super Sonic a character-specific final boss to fight? I think this would justify allowing Tails and Knuckles to go super.
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It's not changing the fact that Tails and Knuckles are already the easy mode of the game, and you're asking that it's made even easier.
And no, disallowing them a simple boss fight that isn't even that important doesn't really come close to justifying.
 
Everybody has played the game a bazillion times over by now. There's no point in caring about Single Player balance currently. If somebody cares about difficulty and challenge, then he will take that challenge since it's possible in the (by now less, due to removal of difficulty) flexible SRB2. Nobody says you have to go Super, and I'm pretty sure 90% of the Tails players wouldn't mind(to say the least) to be able to go Super when you have all the emeralds. It's optional too, you don't HAVE to go Super.

It's just teasing to be able to go Super in Match but not in coop/SP. It makes the game more one-sided too with everybody being only Super Sonic.
 
Super mystic sonic said:
Everybody has played the game a bazillion times over by now.
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Bullshit. I've beaten the game several times and still care about character balance rather than adding stupid and useless and overpowered things "because they're cool".

Super mystic sonic said:
There's no point in caring about Single Player balance currently. If somebody cares about difficulty and challenge, then he will take that challenge since it's possible in the (by now less, due to removal of difficulty) flexible SRB2.
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I don't get it. Are you seriously expecting the players to go through the trouble to fix up the game because they don't like some horrific character imbalances?

Super mystic sonic said:
Nobody says you have to go Super...
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Nobody says you have to get all Chaos Emeralds, yet you whine about it being difficult for Sonic?

Super mystic sonic said:
...and I'm pretty sure 90% of the Tails players wouldn't mind(to say the least) to be able to go Super when you have all the emeralds.
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Because those players don't give a fuck about making Tails even more game-breaking in the campaign.

Super mystic sonic said:
It's optional too, you don't HAVE to go Super.
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What part of "'it's optional' is not a good excuse" do you not understand?

Super mystic sonic said:
It's just teasing to be able to go Super in Match but not in coop/SP.
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It's not "teasing" anyone.
Super Tails and Super Knuckles were stupid ideas to begin with, but apparently, "the classics did it so it's perfectly fine for us to follow a stupid decision".

Super mystic sonic said:
It makes the game more one-sided too with everybody being only Super Sonic.
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It's not one-sided at all.
Sonic has the difficulty, and Sonic gets the reward.
Tails and Knuckles have it easy, and they don't get a reward.

Can you please explain to me what's so horribly wrong with the current way it is?
 
Super mystic sonic said:
Everybody has played the game a bazillion times over by now.
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No. This is not logic. There will always be someone new to the game, and the single player campaign should be presented to them in a proper manner. The game has to appeal to everyone, old and new, and obviously the newcomers are going to be the ones the game tries to please, because, gasp, everybody else is already used to it!

The only real reason you would enable super forms in Coop is because, yes, after clearing Special Stage 7, everybody switches to Sonic. I mean, why wouldn't they?
 
I don't think there should be Super forms for characters other than Sonic in coop and one player. The main reason is that Sonic is harder to play with in single player, and getting all emeralds with him is rewarded with Super Sonic. Super Sonic still is harder than using Tails or Knuckles, especially in levels such as Arid Canyon Zone, since he only gets a higher speed, floating ability and running on water ability. Adding super forms to Tails and Knuckles just hinders Sonic more, which would make less and less people play as him to begin with. The super forms are fine the way they are, and do not need to be changed.
/rant
 
The point is, there's still more time took to get past obstacles. He can't magically TELEPORT up to a certain spot, and even with the higher jump, he can't go high enough to brake a route, so to say. Tails and Knuckles still have it easier, and when you count you have to collect 50 rings to be able to go Super Sonic at all, Tails and Knuckles still have it easier. The super forms stand right now is good enough. We don't need any more super forms.
 
Kyasarin said:
Bullshit. I've beaten the game several times and still care about character balance rather than adding stupid and useless and overpowered things "because they're cool".
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If super forms are overpowered, then Super Sonic is overpowered (jk)

And besides, who wanted super forms for the "because they're cool" reason? like, what are ya talking 'bout?

Kyasarin said:
Nobody says you have to get all Chaos Emeralds
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Yet most of Coop players do that, so what's your point?

Kyasarin said:
Because those players don't give a fuck about making Tails even more game-breaking in the campaign.
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lolwut, Super Tails may be game breaking in S3&K, but this is not S3&K

But I admit his super ability (match/ctf) is cheap as fuck >:I

Kyasarin said:
What part of "'it's optional' is not a good excuse" do you not understand?
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I don't remember anyone saying that, maybe it's just me or this doesn't makes sense :I

Kyasarin said:
It's not "teasing" anyone.
Super Tails and Super Knuckles were stupid ideas to begin with, but apparently, "the classics did it so it's perfectly fine for us to follow a stupid decision".
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Again, the point of topic wasn't Super Tails and Super Knuckles, people still insist them :/

Kyasarin said:
It's not one-sided at all.
Sonic has the difficulty, and Sonic gets the reward.
Tails and Knuckles have it easy, and they don't get a reward.
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Since it's coop, the players teamwork to get the rings, so it's not that hard if they do it right, some

And if it's single player, who cares? You're playing alone, do whatever you want >:C

Kyasarin said:
Can you please explain to me what's so horribly wrong with the current way it is?
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I can, because those coop assholes always change to Sonic to go Super and everything you see is SONICS EVERYWHERE, I really would like to see something else than just the exact same yellow flying jumpy balls

Match/CTF has emeralds and ANYONE can go super, that happens because it would be pointless getting the emeralds there if the character can't go super, but it's also kinda pointless getting the emeralds with anyone but Sonic, some people, as these nuckas say, use Tails/Knuckles in special stages then switch to Sonic to go Super high, what's so wrong with having other super characters optionally?

Oh, I know what's wrong, depending of the character's ability, it may change into a really cheap super ability, like, this is the ability things I've noticed:

Thok = Nothing (Sonic has his float thing, but other characters with thok dont)
Fly = Extreem fart Whirlind Jump
Glide/Climb = fast and cheap gliding and fast climbing
Double Jump = Multi jump ability thing
Float = REALLY high jump °-°
Slow Fall = REVERSED SLOW FALL (like, you slowly fly up with no limits)
Swim = Willy Wonka..... uh, I mean, NOTHING
Homing = NOTHING
No Ability = NOTHING

(If I didn't notice some of the ability differences on these other than fast speed and invicibility, let me know)

Don't tell me I want super forms in coop because of this, because, actually, I HATE these, it's way cheaper than Super Sonic's float, and in my opinion, I think we should have a super ability option for the characters instead of having them FORCED to use something depending of the ability, and it doesn't needs to be these match super abilities, it could be something that doesn't breaks the balance that much (NO SUPER BIRDS PLZ), just like Knuckles' Hyper ability (im not asking for hyper characters :I), he glides into a wall and destroys all the badniks in the screen (but i dont see how this would be useful in match though :V), sadly I can't think of other things that could be sample for super abilities in the moment, but you get my point, I guess

Damn longass post of mine ._.
 
I wish I could make a "super" form that only made me jump a bit higher than normal and made me a bit faster too, no invincibility or sparkles, NOR yellow. :<
 
GTF said:
And besides, who wanted super forms for the "because they're cool" reason? like, what are ya talking 'bout?
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You don't think they're cool? Then why do you want them?

GTF said:
Yet most of Coop players do that, so what's your point?
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That's their fault for collecting them and expecting to do anything with it then.

GTF said:
lolwut, Super Tails may be game breaking in S3&K, but this is not S3&K

But I admit his super ability (match/ctf) is cheap as fuck >:I
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Uh, I don't think I even have to comment on this one.

GTF said:
I don't remember anyone saying that, maybe it's just me or this doesn't makes sense :I
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Uh, that point has been brought a million times by now, whether or not somebody said it in that exact way.

GTF said:
Again, the point of topic wasn't Super Tails and Super Knuckles, people still insist them :/
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The thing is that most people use this topic to complain about the lack of Super Tails/Knuckles, whether you originally intended that or not.

GTF said:
Since it's coop, the players teamwork to get the rings, so it's not that hard if they do it right, some
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Sonic still has it the hardest with finishing the levels.

GTF said:
And if it's single player, who cares? You're playing alone, do whatever you want >:C
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Yeah, let's just add a ton of game-breaking stuff then, because it's single player and nobody cares what you do. Let's just remove all the challenge, except that it's the thing that makes people play a game in the first place.

GTF said:
I can, because those coop assholes always change to Sonic to go Super and everything you see is SONICS EVERYWHERE, I really would like to see something else than just the exact same yellow flying jumpy balls
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What is this game called again? Sonic Robo Blast 2? Ring a bell. Complaining about having to see Sonic everywhere in a Sonic game doesn't make much sense. And honestly, I don't get what's so annoying about the fact that everyone chooses the same character.

GTF said:
Match/CTF has emeralds and ANYONE can go super, that happens because it would be pointless getting the emeralds there if the character can't go super
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No, that happens because Tails/Knuckles would be at a disadvantage if only Sonic could turn Super. Super in Match is different from Super in SP/Coop, because you can score points much easier.

GTF said:
but it's also kinda pointless getting the emeralds with anyone but Sonic
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Then don't collect them. Also, there is this unlockable for which you need all emeralds. It's very convenient to do that with Tails/Knuckles if you can't pull it off with Sonic.

GTF said:
some people, as these nuckas say, use Tails/Knuckles in special stages then switch to Sonic to go Super high
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So what? Let them have their fun.

GTF said:
what's so wrong with having other super characters optionally?
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Counter-question: Why should the devs spend their time on implementing that? Is it worth it?

GTF said:
lots of stuff about Super form character balance
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The nerfed character system is a whole difference issue, and AFAIK, that will be worked on for future releases. I'd like to see a separate superability option for the S_SKIN1, personally, but we'll see.
 
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