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Cream & Cheese v2.0 - WE FIGHT TOGETHER, WE DIE TOGETHER Details »»
Cream & Cheese v2.0 - WE FIGHT TOGETHER, WE DIE TOGETHER
Version: 2.0, by D00D64 (Worst Ranked 'Kart Player) D00D64 is offline
Developer Last Online: Jun 2019

Category: Version: SRB2 Rating: (4 votes - 3.80 average)
Released: 03-30-2014 Last Update: 08-01-2014 Installs: 5
Characters Scripts



ABILITIES: Flight (with holding to automatically ascend)
and Cheese Attack (Use the Ring Throw key in Single Player)


Originally by Blade back in the days of 1.09 (He keeps saying he's gonna make new sprites for her... since the early days of 2.0), This wad has been sitting around for a week or so. She's one of the first characters I ported, in the hopes I'd use that Lua magic to get Cream following her and fighting for her. Sadly, I only got halfway there, so I left it behind, since she's still just a Tails reskin.

However, with Badz being way better at Lua than I, Cheese can finally attack foes! By pressing the Throw Ring key, Cheese will strike whatever is closest to him! If you do it in midair, he'll even be able to chain points! Try using it while flying! However, he'll attempt to hit monitors and bosses, but he can't do anything to them yet. He also can't hit anything above him, since he's using the homing attack. There's also a small bug where if Cream is standing, Cheese may flicker around her for a bit when returning, but he'll return to his spot if Cream moves.

...That said, it took us until 2.1 to have Cream actually have Cheese following her without some EXE mod, so... yeah, here ya' go!

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Old 04-03-2014   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r543 View Post
Cheese's Sprites aren't direct rips. They might look like it but they are custom and use a unfitting black outline(the chao garden one used a different color).

I like the update, thanks for including the stomp code.
My chao wad from long ago [using advance sprites]



cream.wad




I see no difference in the sprites. This just makes me question the rules for the releases. I am for having sprite rips in releases since it does take effort to make them into wads, and they add more fun sometimes, and after seeing this released, I wonder have the rules changed? I pray to HMS12311 that they have.
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Old 04-03-2014   #23
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The rule against sprite rips is intended to stop people from putting some Advance sprites in a character WAD and calling it good. Using ripped sprites at all isn't prohibited, but rather WADs that consist entirely or mostly of ripped sprites are. Cream uses original sprites for the character, with only Cheese's sprites being ripped, so it isn't prohibited under that rule.

(At least, that's how I assume it's enforced. Get a judge/moderator to confirm this officially.)
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Old 04-04-2014   #24
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Pretty sure that's how it works. SRB2 itself already uses a lot of ripped sound effects, but all of its artwork is original for a consistent art direction. God I remember all the sprite rip wads for 1.09, the artwork looked so unfitting, and they stood out even more in the game after being converted to DOOM's palette.

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Originally Posted by r543 View Post
Cheese's Sprites aren't direct rips. They might look like it but they are custom and use a unfitting black outline(the chao garden one used a different color).
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Last edited by .Luke; 04-04-2014 at 03:59 AM. Reason: Got distracted while posting, oops.
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Old 04-04-2014   #25
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Yeah, ol' Cheese is a light edit on the Tiny Chao sprites and has been for years. Basically, Cheese is that but with 8 to 10 pixels of bowtie, different limbs for his legs (since he floats all the time), diagonals, and fast flying frames. The diagonals were probably the harder part. Regardless, since he does stand out so much against Cream, I'm seeing about getting someone far more artfuly skilled than I to do them. Cheese only has two frames, so it'd be a relatively quick job.
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Old 04-05-2014   #26
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RUPDATE VOLUME 1.3

Includes bug fixes, such as some of her stuff being passed onto other characters, and HoldFly (by Wolfy), so you just hold the key to go up when flying. Badz said this was an EMERGEN-C bug fix, so we took all of 20 seconds to add the HoldFly code. For those expecting Cheese's updated sprites, you'll have to wait, sorry!

SO GO GED' 'DIT
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Old 04-05-2014   #27
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Good, this rupdate with the holdfly will satisfy me greatly.
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Old 04-05-2014   #28
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My only issue is her running, its weird skipping? I would rather have her run like the way she does in the Sonic advance series (Running, not weird fast paced skipping, lol) or in Sonic Heroes where she flys (You could just transport her flight sprites to the running frames). Also, the hold fly kind of breaks the whole issue of flight having slowed down speed. She retains her speed since you hold it not press it, not sure if this was intentional though.
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Old 04-05-2014   #29
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She used to fly on the ground, but I never did like that. We ment to give her actual running frames... years ago. Anyways, I prefer the holdfly speed not being nerf'd, as I feel this is closer to how it works in Sonic Advance.
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Old 04-05-2014   #30
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Originally Posted by RedEnchilada View Post
The rule against sprite rips is intended to stop people from putting some Advance sprites in a character WAD and calling it good. Using ripped sprites at all isn't prohibited, but rather WADs that consist entirely or mostly of ripped sprites are. Cream uses original sprites for the character, with only Cheese's sprites being ripped, so it isn't prohibited under that rule.

(At least, that's how I assume it's enforced. Get a judge/moderator to confirm this officially.)
What if I was going to make a Sonic Advance Sonic that uses ripped sprites AND custom ones(Advance doesn't have all the sprites needed, and the chao garden Minigame's Sonic Sprites are different.) ? I know that it takes way less effort to create a .wad using sprites, but it still takes time to name all of the frames and create custom ones.

What are the rules for releases ? It looks like every Judge uses different ones, and released .wads are disappearing. First the Banana.wad, now Senku's 3 characters....

Maybe, the forum should have a voting system for character wad releases, where the members can vote. If it gets enough votes, a judge could move it to releases.
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Old 04-05-2014   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willstolife View Post
1.Sorry for asking this but is Cream's flying like Tails flying but slower & more control.

2.I think you should let Cheese attack in multiplayer, but a catch. You can't pick up or shoot any normal or special ring toss weapons & you also can't use Cheese when you pick up the flag in CTF multiplayer.

3.How about after you use Cheese, you'll have to wait 10 sec before you use Cheese again. I can already tell its broken using it all of the time.XD
2 wouldn't work, im pretty sure the only way to get points in multiplayer is to hit people with the weapon rings themselves.
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Old 04-05-2014   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedEnchilada View Post
The rule against sprite rips is intended to stop people from putting some Advance sprites in a character WAD and calling it good. Using ripped sprites at all isn't prohibited, but rather WADs that consist entirely or mostly of ripped sprites are. Cream uses original sprites for the character, with only Cheese's sprites being ripped, so it isn't prohibited under that rule.

(At least, that's how I assume it's enforced. Get a judge/moderator to confirm this officially.)
Bingo. It's the same as with music replacements: If it's just a bunch of music and nothing else, it will be trashed. But if it's a custom level with a custom music track or something like that, it's okay. The intention of the rule is to prevent the Releases section from being flooded with WADs that don't have any creative effort involved.

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Originally Posted by r543 View Post
What are the rules for releases ? It looks like every Judge uses different ones, and released .wads are disappearing. First the Banana.wad, now Senku's 3 characters....
Banana.wad was removed because the author didn't have permission to use the sprites, and Senku's characters were removed at his own request. The rules for releases are outlined in the Submissions forum, and we're not being inconsistent about this.
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Old 04-05-2014   #33
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Bingo. It's the same as with music replacements: If it's just a bunch of music and nothing else, it will be trashed. But if it's a custom level with a custom music track or something like that, it's okay. The intention of the rule is to prevent the Releases section from being flooded with WADs that don't have any creative effort involved.


Banana.wad was removed because the author didn't have permission to use the sprites, and Senku's characters were removed at his own request. The rules for releases are outlined in the Submissions forum, and we're not being inconsistent about this.
I asked Senku about his wads after I made this post but I forgot to edit it. The other characters that didn't get released were demo 4 knuckles( I see the reason why it wasn't released) and Labyrinth Sonic, which had the spring.lua, but that's ok.


Quote:
Originally Posted by .Luke View Post

Sorry, I never liked the Chao Garden Sprites of Sadv1/2. I probably thought about the Sadv 3 chao sprites, they have a colored outline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D00D64 View Post
Yeah, ol' Cheese is a light edit on the Tiny Chao sprites and has been for years. Basically, Cheese is that but with 8 to 10 pixels of bowtie, different limbs for his legs (since he floats all the time), diagonals, and fast flying frames. The diagonals were probably the harder part. Regardless, since he does stand out so much against Cream, I'm seeing about getting someone far more artfuly skilled than I to do them. Cheese only has two frames, so it'd be a relatively quick job.

Here is my edit of the idle sprite. I added a second frame to create a "flying" animation, but I didn't test it in game.
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Old 04-08-2014   #34
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Originally Posted by r543 View Post
That's adorable except it's killed by the almost pillow shaded look. A pixel thick ring of shade at the borders of the sprite just looks gross; doesn't look like it has depth D:

That said it DOES look loads more appealing than what we had originally.
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Old 04-08-2014   #35
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That's adorable except it's killed by the almost pillow shaded look. A pixel thick ring of shade at the borders of the sprite just looks gross; doesn't look like it has depth D:

That said it DOES look loads more appealing than what we had originally.
I tried to recreate the original shading, but it looks like I failed at it and created an other pillow shaded sprite.(I didn't add a line of both shades around the chao sprite to not create pillow shading).
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Old 04-17-2014   #36
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Updated the sprites a bit, they weren't pillow shaded before, there was no real black outline around them and the other outline existed on the normal chao sprites, but both colors had almost the same palette so it wasn't that visibile.
I updated the sprites so they look less pillow shaded and fixed the fly animation.
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Old 04-18-2014   #37
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I'll be honest, this needs a lot of polish.

The sprites are not great, which is fine, I know that takes work. But Cheese's presence feels wrong; there's no fluidity or motion to him following Cream, he's just kind of a static object. But moreover, the function itself is glitched; you have to actually let go of the button for Cheese to actually damage whatever he's attacking, otherwise he'll just spaz out inside the enemy's sprite.

That's the lua end.... but what should have been way easier to fix was Cream's balance. If you were to get rid of Cheese in his current state, Cream would still be a strict upgrade from Tails. Her spindash is better, I think her actual speed stats are better than Tails, her jump is mega, and I know you say the flight's shorter, but I can't think of a single instance where Tails' flight would actually be better than Cream's. Cream keeps a hell of a lot more horizontal momentum when flying and she can reach ascending rates way higher than Tails, which ultimately means she also has much better vertical OR horizontal reach than Tails. The flight time is a nonissue, if it's actually been changed. I don't think you actually put any effort into balancing Cream, and if you did, your intent was obviously to make her stronger than her Sonic Advance 2 debut. I know Cream was easy mode, but this feels boring; I don't even need to use Cheese and I'm still better than all of the official characters.



Other minor oddities are that Cream's flight sound is almost nonexistent, and also her ears have Tails' helicopter hitbox. That's right; Cream is so overpowered, she can kill enemies with her ears. (But seriously, fix some of this up dude.)
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Old 04-18-2014   #38
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Other minor oddities are that Cream's flight sound is almost nonexistent, and also her ears have Tails' helicopter hitbox. That's right; Cream is so overpowered, she can kill enemies with her ears. (But seriously, fix some of this up dude.)
Spoiler: Short rant thing, beware
You do realize that's because she has the fly ability, right?[/SARCASM]

The fly ability always, always makes one hurt stuff above one if one is flying, since Tails did that in the classic games. Why should it not be like that for other characters having the fly ability?

I don't know if it can be altered with Lua, but you sure shouldn't blame D00D64 for not making an edited .exe just for this character which only would do one thing, which would be disabling the flying hurts for the skin "cream", and nothing else.
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Old 04-18-2014   #39
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Originally Posted by Blue Warrior View Post
I'll be honest, this needs a lot of polish.
The sprites are not great, which is fine, I know that takes work. But Cheese's presence feels wrong; there's no fluidity or motion to him following Cream, he's just kind of a static object. But moreover, the function itself is glitched; you have to actually let go of the button for Cheese to actually damage whatever he's attacking, otherwise he'll just spaz out inside the enemy's sprite.
That's why I'm working on the sprites and added a second flying frame.
I'm using the mouse wheel up key to ring toss, and D00D64 did do that probably too, probably something that will be fixed soon.

Quote:
That's the lua end.... but what should have been way easier to fix was Cream's balance. If you were to get rid of Cheese in his current state, Cream would still be a strict upgrade from Tails. Her spindash is better, I think her actual speed stats are better than Tails, her jump is mega, and I know you say the flight's shorter, but I can't think of a single instance where Tails' flight would actually be better than Cream's. Cream keeps a hell of a lot more horizontal momentum when flying and she can reach ascending rates way higher than Tails, which ultimately means she also has much better vertical OR horizontal reach than Tails. The flight time is a nonissue, if it's actually been changed. I don't think you actually put any effort into balancing Cream, and if you did, your intent was obviously to make her stronger than her Sonic Advance 2 debut. I know Cream was easy mode, but this feels boring; I don't even need to use Cheese and I'm still better than all of the official characters.
Cream drops down way faster after the flying ends, and the actionspd is slower than tails. Most of her stats are a bit better(only by 1-2) than tails but that's still ok, cheese might be a nice addon but doesn't do too much special stuff that you could do with normal attacks, so it's only useful against some enemies. So yes, the character is a bit overpowered, but not that much.
Quote:
Other minor oddities are that Cream's flight sound is almost nonexistent, and also her ears have Tails' helicopter hitbox. That's right; Cream is so overpowered, she can kill enemies with her ears. (But seriously, fix some of this up dude.)
Does cream even need a fly sound ? and the hitbox of the flying is because of the CA_FLY action, every character does damage with that. The no horizontal slowdown happens because of multiability. If you click the jump button a lot, then you slow down like tails does. Maybe there should be an other fly action(Mulitability should keep the noslowdown Fly) so this can be better balanced.
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Old 04-18-2014   #40
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Originally Posted by The Zero Team View Post
You do realize that's because she has the fly ability, right?[/SARCASM]
Of course it's the fly ability, I'm not fucking stupid.

Quote:
The fly ability always, always makes one hurt stuff above one if one is flying, since Tails did that in the classic games. Why should it not be like that for other characters having the fly ability?
Because it's not intuitive for ears to damage robots in this manner. Obviously.


Quote:
I don't know if it can be altered with Lua, but you sure shouldn't blame D00D64 for not making an edited .exe just for this character which only would do one thing, which would be disabling the flying hurts for the skin "cream", and nothing else.
My "so overpowered" comment on her ears was tongue in cheek, so don't be so defensive for him over the fact that I decided to point out an oddball quirk. I don't know what you can and can't alter in Lua, if it can't be fixed then so be it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r543 View Post
Cream drops down way faster after the flying ends, and the actionspd is slower than tails. Most of her stats are a bit better(only by 1-2) than tails but that's still ok, cheese might be a nice addon but doesn't do too much special stuff that you could do with normal attacks, so it's only useful against some enemies. So yes, the character is a bit overpowered, but not that much.
Oh please, the game is a cakewalk with her. The flying has mechanical drawbacks, but they're nowhere near enough to offset the sheer power of what you can actually do with them. If you understand how to use it, you can clear levels way faster with her and with less effort than Tails in under any circumstance.

Outside of her flight acceleration, all of her stats are better than Tails; making her have faster acceleration and top speed would have been enough to make her a straight upgrade, it's the fact that greater jump height and spindash strength was stacked with this that baffles me. Also, I don't think you realize how valuable Cheese is in flight situations where Cream would be in danger; being able to intercept underwater buzzers from a distance while swimming makes Azure Temple that much easier for her to finish. The bosses are already pushovers for her due to her good speed, air sustain, and fantastic jump. The minute Cheese is fixed to work on bosses, the boss levels will play themselves.
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Old 04-18-2014   #41
r543
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Of course it's the fly ability, I'm not fucking stupid.
Because it's not intuitive for ears to damage robots in this manner. Obviously.
My "so overpowered" comment on her ears was tongue in cheek, so don't be so defensive for him over the fact that I decided to point out an oddball quirk. I don't know what you can and can't alter in Lua, if it can't be fixed then so be it.
Well, Tails' spinning Tails can also damage them, which doesn't make much sense.


Quote:
Oh please, the game is a cakewalk with her. The flying has mechanical drawbacks, but they're nowhere near enough to offset the sheer power of what you can actually do with them. If you understand how to use it, you can clear levels way faster with her and with less effort than Tails in under any circumstance.

Outside of her flight acceleration, all of her stats are better than Tails; making her have faster acceleration and top speed would have been enough to make her a straight upgrade, it's the fact that greater jump height and spindash strength was stacked with this that baffles me. Also, I don't think you realize how valuable Cheese is in flight situations where Cream would be in danger; being able to intercept underwater buzzers from a distance while swimming makes Azure Temple that much easier for her to finish. The bosses are already pushovers for her due to her good speed, air sustain, and fantastic jump. The minute Cheese is fixed to work on bosses, the boss levels will play themselves.
Her stats are a little bit better, only like 1-2 points, here compare it:
actionspd = 88/100
normalspeed = 33/32
thrustfactor = 4/3
accelstart = 130/192
acceleration = 50/50
mindash = 25/15
maxdash = 90/90
jumpfactor = 1.25/1

Cheese can be useful when flying, but you aren't flying over the complete map, and spindash can be way more useful on the ground.

The Underwater Buzzers are a good example, but I'd keep them alive for the air. I don't rememeber many parts in srb2, where you had enemies around you while flying(well, other than Aerial Garden and THZ1)

I never said that Cheese is going to be changed, I'm sure that it won't be changed to attack bosses, so it's not too op. For the stats, yes she is a little bit better than tails, but not by too much.
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