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Old 10-04-2016   #61
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Now that I think about it, you don't necessarily need a tutorial level to teach strafing. You just need to rethink the default controls. Picture this:

As Mystic said earlier, Sonic's sprites would no longer be bound to the direction of the camera, though the controls would stay the same. That means that pressing strafe left/right would make Sonic face that direction.

Using a WASD control scheme with strafing, this would make moving around look similar to using analog mode with a keyboard, except that the camera doesn't move.

Then, up arrow is jump. Left arrow is turn left, right arrow is turn right. And down arrow is spindash.

These controls might be weird for a first-time player, but not more than they already are, and it forces the player to properly learn the controls.
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Old 10-04-2016   #62
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I don't have much to add to the argument, but I do like the idea of bringing back the old manual.
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Old 10-04-2016   #63
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Not to un-derail the topic but does anyone know of a let's play/playthrough by someone who is actually good at the game? Alot of what ive seen is blind/first impressions type videos which i dont think do the game credit.
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Old 10-04-2016   #64
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None with commentary that I can remember, but I've seen a few full playthroughs on YouTube. Here's one.
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Old 10-04-2016   #65
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Look at RedEnchilada's channel, he has a TAS on there.
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Old 10-05-2016   #66
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Originally Posted by nothing View Post
But isn't this game suppose to be a classic styled fan game?
Well, it's 3D, doesn't have Super Knuckles in the vanilla campaign, and will fundamentally be an FPS/platformer hybrid no matter how hard anyone tries to squeeze it into a pure platformer. Only a fundamental rewrite of the entire engine would change that. And the classics wasted two buttons on a three button controller. Unless you used Debug Mode.

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The main problem is that our third person camera doesn't actually have the center of the screen be where you're firing. You'd have to actually do math to figure out where the shots are being aimed at and make a Star Fox style multiple crosshair, and that's a lot of work for a minor feature, so it's not on the to-do list.
Not to mention that making it work for looking all the way up and down would be impractical at best. It's honestly better that people just learn to use first person. (The only way that the software renderer will ever compete with OpenGL is either for it to support full vertical aiming, or for OGL to become completely unusable. Well, for me, anyway. :P) inb4stuffIalreadyknowabouttheOGLrendererbeingharde rtocodefor

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Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
I do think that a tutorial is distasteful as I personally hate that type of thing, but I think we've gotten enough data to realize that being subtle and gentle about it isn't working. We expect players to understand things that they aren't understanding, and this is making players feel our game controls are "slippery" and "tank-like" when that couldn't be farther from the truth. There are a bunch of things on the list of stuff to test to try to mitigate that, but I think there's really no way around the fact that if we want players to understand certain things that we can't teach by example, we're going to have to tell them.
The classic example of a game that teaches through "play, don't show, especially don't tell" is Super Mario Bros. 1-1. And even it isn't perfect, as it does nothing to teach you about the sprint button that also shoots fireballs. You can learn that through experimentation, because there are only three buttons left, and one of them pauses the game. Now expand that to a keyboard and potentially a mouse too. The sad fact is that teaching through doing is basically impossible for all but the simplest concepts, unless the player already knows the controls. And there are only two practical ways that will happen. And one of them (a full-fledged manual, which we already have in the form of the wiki) will be ignored by the players who needed it in the first place.

So, tutorial it up.

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While we haven't tried it yet, one of the things we've been planning to try out is making the character sprite face the control direction instead of the facing direction for all non-FPS modes. This would help players grasp what strafe is doing better while also using all of those sprites in normal operation.
As long as it can be disabled, I'm all for this. (Not that I ever use third person outside of 2D segments for anything other than peeking around corners in Tag or spectating others, but I'm sure a lot of people do)


As an aside, I'm probably the only person who actually uses the arrow keys as if they were WASD. Hey, it fit my ancient desk setup from about a decade back. And I'm too set in my ways to really change, unless there are suddenly a bunch more Lua custom buttons I need to fit into what the rest of my left hand can reach.

Last edited by Kopper; 10-05-2016 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 10-05-2016   #67
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Originally Posted by Monster Iestyn View Post
I would have thought you'd learn the gimmicks in each zone by simply playing them? Not like they all throw you into the deep end with their gimmicks straight away, unless it's Egg Rock of course. You usually get some chance to learn how they work for the most part, last I remember.

...On the other hand, a forced "loading screen" would just invoke the Sonic Game That Must Not Be Named, don't go there please. =V
That Harry Potter reference is pure gold.

Anyways, how will the minecart work in 2.2? Does it include linedefs and a object? Or something else? :V
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Old 10-05-2016   #68
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That Harry Potter reference is pure gold.

Anyways, how will the minecart work in 2.2? Does it include linedefs and a object? Or something else? :V
I would presume its an large object and uses slope physics to move around via momentum
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Old 10-05-2016   #69
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Anyways, how will the minecart work in 2.2? Does it include linedefs and a object? Or something else? :V
That Minecart looks like a Voxel if you ask me, does that mean 2.2 will support voxels ?
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Old 10-05-2016   #70
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It's weird how half of the wads in the "shitty" doom wad pack are actually good. It's like the person who send it too him just called the them "shitty" for being stupid.
To be fair the actually shitty doom wads are borderline unplayable messes of eyeburn, white noise, and crashes. I know one channel that showed some of these. Generally they are just as unpleasent to watch as they are to play.
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Old 10-05-2016   #71
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Originally Posted by RomioTheBadass View Post
That Minecart looks like a Voxel if you ask me, does that mean 2.2 will support voxels ?
...no it's not a voxel, wasn't that made clear in toaster's thread?

It's just a normal sprite with tweaks to the sprite drawing code to make it look "flat" when not viewed from the side.
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Old 10-05-2016   #72
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...no it's not a voxel, wasn't that made clear in toaster's thread?

It's just a normal sprite with tweaks to the sprite drawing code to make it look "flat" when not viewed from the side.
So its gonna be an object?
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Old 10-05-2016   #73
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...no it's not a voxel, wasn't that made clear in toaster's thread?
Nope, she only said it's for ERZ .
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Old 10-05-2016   #74
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...you do realise I was making a joke there, right? It was a minecart designed for ACZ, and the ERZ thing was just a test of scaling.

They're paper sprites, which objects can have. Like paper mario, except they don't have a flat collision box unless otherwise specified, and the game series they're in now hasn't ended up terribly.
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Old 10-06-2016   #75
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Lol dumb me, Looking good .
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Old 10-06-2016   #76
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Since this thread has gone way off-topic, I guess I will post a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDiPFQN0dE4

This video was made by a popular modder named Thejojonetwork. That guy who mods Sonic World.

But, the attention is not really positive.
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Old 10-06-2016   #77
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We're still discussing SRB2, Nothing off-topic .
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Old 10-06-2016   #78
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We're still discussing SRB2, Nothing off-topic .
We kinda were, we were talking about controls and tutorial levels. The topic is about outside coverage about srb2.
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Old 10-06-2016   #79
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Well yeah we were still discussing stuff brought up by that video so technically still on-topic .
EDIT : (Oh my god, we're going off-topic right meow) .
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Old 10-19-2016   #80
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And it's all thanks to this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjuQrnB73XU

It's like the first time this thing's got sizeable coverage since that magazine.
I just checked the video and Sonic himself commented on it.
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