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Old 05-21-2016   #41
Sapheros
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Woah woah what, there's no Direct Draw anymore?

*plays Taps on trumpet*

Smooth framerate, you will be missed. ;-;
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Old 05-21-2016   #42
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Certain hooks in 2.1.15, such as ShouldDamage, seem to substantially increase lag when a lot of objects using them are present in a level, moreso than they did in 2.1.14. Perhaps this should be looked into?
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Old 05-21-2016   #43
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The one which should be removed is SDL2! SRB2DD Has smoother frames than SDL2! Is that too much too ask?! Curse you Devs!
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Old 05-21-2016   #44
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Originally Posted by Mumu03 View Post
The one which should be removed is SDL2! SRB2DD Has smoother frames than SDL2! Is that too much too ask?! Curse you Devs!
The SDL2 EXE was made so the game can run smoother on more modern systems. The DirectDraw EXE is old and deprecated and it doesn't make much sense to keep it around anymore.

Also, smoother frames than SDL2?
Spoiler:
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Old 05-21-2016   #45
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How are slopes activated in Srb2 doom builder now?
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Old 05-21-2016   #46
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Originally Posted by verifiaman View Post
"activated"
You mean, like, creating slopes in SRB2 Doom Builder? Though, only Zone Builder can render them in 3D Mode, if 3D Mode is necessary for you.
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Old 05-21-2016   #47
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Originally Posted by 742mph View Post
Certain hooks in 2.1.15, such as ShouldDamage, seem to substantially increase lag when a lot of objects using them are present in a level, moreso than they did in 2.1.14. Perhaps this should be looked into?
I fixed my lag by making the screen reso. Smaller. Solid 35 fps all round on my old toaster :T
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Old 05-22-2016   #48
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Originally Posted by Fres View Post
The SDL2 EXE was made so the game can run smoother on more modern systems. The DirectDraw EXE is old and deprecated and it doesn't make much sense to keep it around anymore.

Also, smoother frames than SDL2?
Spoiler:
My laptop's processing is so Old.
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Old 05-22-2016   #49
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Originally Posted by Fres View Post
The SDL2 EXE was made so the game can run smoother on more modern systems. The DirectDraw EXE is old and deprecated and it doesn't make much sense to keep it around anymore.

Also, smoother frames than SDL2?
Spoiler:
Most of the problems with SDL2 has to do with deprecated systems, which a lot of people tend to have if they're sticking with certain operating systems as of now. I mean I have a pirated version of Windows 7 Ultimate which originated from a Windows Vista OS, my computer may be capable of running SDL2, but it's software just isn't strong enough to run it completely smoothly. OpenGL would be worse since I have a very old graphics card that God knows I can't replace with $1.07 in change inside my wallet.

I understand that change was needed, but I honestly don't think abandoning a very unprivileged group of people is a way to move into the future, I mean, that's pretty much how some people portray Republicans, or Donald Trump.

To wrap this up, I absolutely love this game. I just feel a little ashamed that I or an underprivileged 12 year old that just got a used PC for getting honor roll last marking period, or anyone that can't afford to move on, to move forward to get the same enjoyment they had literally a few days ago as of this post.
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Old 05-22-2016   #50
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Originally Posted by Duon the Adventurer View Post
Most of the problems with SDL2 has to do with deprecated systems[1], which a lot of people tend to have [2]
I have to say, Duon is correct in the latter - the majority of the people playing SRB2 that I know run old, deprecated machines. However, I do not run deprecated machines, I have two machines and both use fairly new hardware. I have problems on the SDL2 executable with the menu GUI glitching up and ingame I receive inconsistent, fluctuating framerates. I never had this on the DirectDraw executable. Speaking of which, why do we need to advance the rendering technology of a game when the game is basically not very advanced in a graphical manner? It's pointless making it require unnecessarily powerful hardware.

Not only that but I know for a fact that the SRB2 SDL exe really messes up in WINE on Linux, so that means somebody is going to have to compile a linux version more frequently, and maybe a mac version. Yes, SDL2 works better on Linux, but only through native architecture.

What the fuck kind of move is abolishing DirectDraw? More like pushing a whole portion of the community aside, stating that they're unimportant and their needs do not matter.

Slick move.
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Last edited by HitCoder; 05-22-2016 at 02:10 AM. Reason: Improving clarity
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Old 05-22-2016   #51
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Well, it's been quite a while. I check back a couple years later and slopes are implemented? That's incredible!

You guys really deserve props for sticking around and continuing to update this game after so many years. 2.2 looks extremely promising and I'm really looking forward to when it's finished.
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Old 05-22-2016   #52
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It's less that "we're dropping older hardware users because fuck you", and more of "we're dropping older hardware users because Microsoft is too and it'll be more effort than necessary to keep something up to date that doesn't work for the normal computer a decade or two in the future"

Some things just have to stop being supported some day, y'know; do we still need a DOS version to come with SRB2 for the 'older hardware users'?

Last edited by TehRealSalt; 05-22-2016 at 05:16 AM.
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Old 05-22-2016   #53
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Originally Posted by hitkid61 View Post
I have to say, Duon is correct in the latter - the majority of the people playing SRB2 that I know run old, deprecated machines. However, I do not run deprecated machines, I have two machines and both use fairly new hardware.
Cool. So do I. DD has visual and performance issues across both renderers for me, and has actually locked up my computer to the point of necessitating a reboot twice. SDL2 has never done that. This proves what we already know: some computers handle SDL2 differently from others and will encounter different issues. If you don't report them at all, then our chance of fixing them stays firmly at 0%.

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Speaking of which, why do we need to advance the rendering technology of a game when the game is basically not very advanced in a graphical manner? It's pointless making it require unnecessarily powerful hardware.
I'm guessing you're not aware of all the limitations we have with our current renderers. Simply put, there are tons. Not to mention the renderer has a direct effect on game performance, and both renderers aren't optimized properly to take advantage of even slightly newer technologies, such as multicore processing in software. It's not pointless, and it sure as hell beats intentionally limiting ourselves so a few more people can run the game on their decade-old toasters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitkid61 View Post
Not only that but I know for a fact that the SRB2 SDL exe really messes up in WINE on Linux, so that means somebody is going to have to compile a linux version more frequently, and maybe a mac version. Yes, SDL2 works better on Linux, but only through native architecture.
I tested Wine through OS X a while back with SDL2 builds and came across few issues. Most came from Wine, since SDL2 ran fine under Windows on the same machine. We can fix actual issues with SDL2, not Wine issues. It should be noted that the majority of Linux players I've seen compile their own builds.

Also, I have no idea what the hell you're talking about in that last sentence.

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What the fuck kind of move is abolishing DirectDraw?
An extremely necessary one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitkid61 View Post
More like pushing a whole portion of the community aside, stating that they're unimportant and their needs do not matter.

Slick move.
I'm not sure if you're aware, but Microsoft were the ones who deprecated DirectDraw. It's an old piece of shit that doesn't run properly on modern versions of Windows. What next, are you gonna ask for Windows 98 support? The game might be eighteen years old but that doesn't mean we need to use eighteen year old technology, not to mention a license violation in the form of FModEx.

Bottom line, it's going. Like it or not.
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Old 05-22-2016   #54
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Originally Posted by Duon the Adventurer View Post
I understand that change was needed, but I honestly don't think abandoning a very unprivileged group of people is a way to move into the future, I mean, that's pretty much how some people portray Republicans, or Donald Trump.
Videogames are a luxury good - you do not need them to survive, and there is no moral imperative to make or distribute them. Furthermore, there is no obligation to any particular group in how it is made or distributed, as unlike with politics and the government, we don't collect taxes or solicit donations. We are not wasting anything of yours, and do not have nor ever claimed to have any kind of duty towards you or any other person or group as developers.

tl;dr the level of entitlement you're expressing is ridiculous, and comparing us to somebody you don't like to try and make a strong statement about that entitlement is annoying. Making SRB2 and running this website in support of that game is a hobby, not a charity.
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Last edited by Prime 2.0; 05-22-2016 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 05-22-2016   #55
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Originally Posted by hitkid61 View Post
I have two machines and both use fairly new hardware. I have problems on the SDL2 executable with the menu GUI glitching up and ingame I receive inconsistent, fluctuating framerates.
Please feel free to go here and leave as much information as possible in a topic so that we can attempt to diagnose the issues you're having. The SDL2 interface isn't perfect yet, so any help we can get to make it work well is much appreciated! (And believe me, the problems you guys are having most likely aren't with SDL2 but within our implementation, considering that many games nowadays are SDL2-powered.)

Quote:
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Not only that but I know for a fact that the SRB2 SDL exe really messes up in WINE on Linux, so that means somebody is going to have to compile a linux version more frequently, and maybe a mac version. Yes, SDL2 works better on Linux, but only through native architecture.
Fair enough. We should be putting more effort into making builds for Mac/Linux readily available. (Because I sure hope you're not insinuating that we should be trying to fix the game in WINE instead!)
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Old 05-22-2016   #56
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When was the last time SRB2 even came with a dos version?
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Old 05-22-2016   #57
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When was the last time SRB2 even came with a dos version?
I think demo 4.35 was the last version to include a dos version.
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Old 05-22-2016   #58
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Originally Posted by Steel Titanium View Post
I think demo 4.35 was the last version to include a dos version.
Oh, the DOS code is still there, Just no one want to compile/debug it
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Old 05-22-2016   #59
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Oh, the DOS code is still there, Just no one want to compile/debug it
I'll note that this is what will really happen to the directdraw stuff as well. It's not like you couldn't drag the old code in and try to compile it. You'd just end up with lots of bugs as we stop updating it and things break.

I think people here are forgetting that we're already at the point that the computer I first ran SRB2 on would have no ability to run a modern version. Not only is Windows 98 no longer supported (and crashes outright IIRC), the computer wouldn't be capable of running most of our stages at playable framerate even at this minimum resolution.

As time moves on, old technology stops being maintained and eventually becomes obsolete and unable to operate new programs. DirectDraw is currently not being maintained by Microsoft. This means that we WILL have to drop support for it whether we personally like it or not because Windows itself won't be able to run it. If you have problems with the SDL2 version of the game, you'd better speak up and help us debug those problems or you're going to be very sad when 2.2 comes around and we don't have DirectDraw support anymore.

Continuing to use DirectDraw is basically like saying SRB2 should have a requirement of Windows XP, Vista, or 7 ONLY and not support computers made after a certain year. That's just stupid.
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Old 05-22-2016   #60
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Originally Posted by verifiaman View Post
How are slopes activated in Srb2 doom builder now?
Use Zone Builder and choose the appropriate Linedef effect for your sector (type "slope" in search filter), And Lower/Raise sector the way you want and slope should be displayed in 3D Mode .
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