SRB2 Heroes (Real superpower of TEAMWORK!)

Another little nitpick of mine, but I think it would be nice if *Big and Omega* could have their colors changed next version, it bothers me that I can't be a grey big or a blue Omega because their colors were locked. You can change their startcolor towards their color, or you can change their color to green so that the default startcolor allows them to change colors. You actually had the same problem for the SADX Mod for Big.
 
Another little nitpick of mine, but I think it would be nice if *Big and Omega* could have their colors changed next version

What's this? COLOR CHANGING BIG? (Man, the color remap tool in SLADE is so useful!)
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Oh yeah, also Team Rose is basically done (unless Rosy replaces Amy, but that would be really easy to do).
 
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In my opinion, I would try to make the team switching part of the HUD smaller and more in the right hand corner of the screen. Right now it just looks like it's in the way of everything.
 
Now wait a damn second here. No variety between teams is the true Heroes formula. The only team with any variety at all was Chaotix, and I don't think I have to tell anyone here that Chaotix's "variety" just made them play even worse. If they all play the same he's emulating Heroes correctly!

Now, whether or not he should emulate Heroes correctly on this is another matter, but Sonic Heroes had basically no character variety whatsoever.
Team Sonic and Dark were essentially clones
Amy's tornado was a projectile
Espio could turn invisible
Big could fire teammates a bit further (I think)
Charmy could open Team Chaotix-only warp flowers


Dark is harder than Sonic, Rose is easier
 
Those are not significant differences, and this is coming from someone who loves Heroes.
 
...

Then my entire childhood of thinking team dark had it worse was just me being a scrub
ohwell

But if you wanted to bring up campaign differences you'd have to note that the entire game is basically a treasure hunt for Team Chaotix
 
Team Dark DID have it worse? :V While they don't play all THAT differently from Team Sonic, their LEVELS were a lot harder instead. Dark was basically hard mode.

Also hype for the new party system. Just wondering though, what happens if a non-Leader character gets hit? Do they just get stunned and recover as in Heroes, or are they just literally invincible? ;o
 
Also, in power formation, do the speed and flight characters auto-attack enemies if close enough or not?
 
Also hype for the new party system. Just wondering though, what happens if a non-Leader character gets hit? Do they just get stunned and recover as in Heroes, or are they just literally invincible? ;o
Yes, they are invincible.


Also, in power formation, do the speed and flight characters auto-attack enemies if close enough or not?
No they dont...
 
Are those actual bots, or are they cape chased allies, as in not "actually" there but are meant to look as if they were.
 
they're actual "bots". not as in the hardcoded styled bot, but completely scripted from scratch. (btw amazing thing you've done here Tripel.)
 
You mean this?
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Even if i think that's something STHE123O would have to decide, I prefer the ones Yacker made:
f5t29xat319jysnzg.jpg

They look more original (if you told me the above was ripped from heroes, i would believe you) and they feel more like they belong in SRB2
Plus, looking at the old ones compared to the new ones, it looks like I would have to scale down the heads more than they already are so they fit in the black space e.e

Well, i want to replace these default ones with Lat's but i demand the same image but one flipped to the Fly Formation Icon on the South and another flipped to the Power Formation Icon on the south
 
I'm not really a fan of this pack.

-Button hunting and forced Badnik murder is about as fun as watching a tumble dryer (at least starring at a tumble dryer is fairly peaceful and doesn't require much energy).

-The level design is pretty bad. First level I was able to skip over most of the sections with one character, which completely defeats the point of teams. I also dislike the "static Badniks waiting there for Sonic to destroy them to get across to a barren ledge" design featured in post 90's Sonic games. That is not your fault because that's in Heroes, but it is just worse here than the official games because I can just completely skip over it (which makes it look even more stupid); and not to mention that the way it's laid out looks rather empty and ugly.

-The button hunting and Badnik murder is blatantly forced in there to make the maps seem longer because there's little to nothing to do in them.

-Aesthetically speaking, these are your best maps yet. But like a lot of your other map packs, some of the textures don't look well converted into SRB2. New, custom textures that mimic the textures from Heroes rather than directly ripping them would look far better, but you would need to find somebody with that level of skill.

-I'm sure you're aware, but Bigs, Omegas, and other miscellaneous sprites are aesthetic eyesores. Big and Omega look outright silly, especially since they can both climb walls all of a sudden. The only characters in the pack that have been officially established to climb walls are Knuckles and Vector. If physics exist here, Big could not keep his 616 pound behind sticking to a wall, much less be able to climb up it as steady as he does. Omega at least has sharp claws, but he still looks pretty absurd climbing up a wall the way he does here.

-Speaking of sprites and aesthetics, the clashing sprite styles between all of the characters looks terrible. But that's not exactly your fault either since making a complete individual character requires at least a years worth of development to be any good, and these are all just dated skins that already exist.

-Most of the sound effects are at an incredibly low volume or don't even play. I don't understand what is wrong with them.

-The point is to emulate Heroes as exact as possible, or at least I think so. But why? These kind of level packs never seem to work properly with SRB2. Since a lot of those 3D Sonic games people try to emulate already have sub-par level design most of the time, it just looks even worse in SRB2 with all the fancy graphics and loops from the actual games not there. Heroes itself is not very good, why would you want to degrade the superior gameplay of SRB2 to the gameplay of Heroes? Giving each character the same set of abilities is stupid. I picked on Shadow expecting him to have his actually fun and useful abilities that Speedwagon gave him, only to find that he has a homing thok (and why you would get rid of the spin frames and revert them to jump frames, I don't know).

I honestly think that the best thing you can do here is design your own maps rather than trying to copy Sonic Teams mediocre level design, that are based off of the same themes as the levels in Heroes. Keep the team switch functions, but make each character have individual abilities as well. Get rid of the monotonous button hunting and Badnik killing. Sonic Team had a decent idea going with Heroes, but executed it terribly. You can use this opportunity to do one better than them. Also, until somebody makes a Big and Omega that actually look decent, I would keep them out of the mod. This could apply for other characters too. I'm pretty sure I remember a quality Omega being worked on by someone, but I don't know if that project is still relevant.

Overall, this mod is fairly unappealing and I never even attempted to complete it after the first 2 maps in single player. I basically skimmed through all the maps with multiplayers level select. You really need to find yourself some good sprite and texture artists, too.

Most of this may seem like nitpicking at looks, but they are pretty important. If Big the Cat climbing up a poorly textured wall like Spiderman was published into an official title and released, that game would be the laughing stock of the year, and the Sonic Twitter would post a meme of it.

Sorry if it seems like I am directly shitting on you, I know you probably put quite a bit of effort into this despite the quality. So I can at least respect that. These maps could at least be good for hangout.

---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------

f5t29xat319jysnzg.jpg

They look more original (if you told me the above was ripped from heroes, i would believe you) and they feel more like they belong in SRB2
Plus, looking at the old ones compared to the new ones, it looks like I would have to scale down the heads more than they already are so they fit in the black space e.e
The one that is currently used in the pack is better. The one Yacker made is literally the same thing with duller colors, less refined lines, and the flight icon in the wrong place. I don't see how it's so original compared to the current one.
 
The one Yacker made is literally the same thing with duller colors, less refined lines, and the flight icon in the wrong place. I don't see how it's so original compared to the current one.

Because for what ever reason people keep on missing this post...

For what ever reason, Slade's messing up the colors on mine when imported (that or the palette reference on the wiki has lied to me). I'll look into fixing that later, but for now, I figured I'd post the Speed with the proper colors, as it looks a bit better. No power or flying yet as those are actually color-swapped by slade, unfortunately. I just wanted to put this here as I noticed some people were complaining about the shading, but Slade's removal of colors kind of ruined that a bit. I'd be the first to admit that Lat's look really good, though.
AD0Zykl.png
And the order isn't my fault. Tripel simply confused the order when adding the sprites to the HUD. Additionally, I tried making some more minor adjustments to mine (making the hole in the middle a little less bland) but Tripel wanted it this way for icon purposes. So it's a little function over form issue currently. TBH I think if Lat' changed his sprites to have a hole more comparable to the size of the ones in mine I'd love to see his in the mod.
 
I'm not really a fan of this pack.

-Button hunting and forced Badnik murder is about as fun as watching a tumble dryer (at least starring at a tumble dryer is fairly peaceful and doesn't require much energy).

-The level design is pretty bad. First level I was able to skip over most of the sections with one character, which completely defeats the point of teams. I also dislike the "static Badniks waiting there for Sonic to destroy them to get across to a barren ledge" design featured in post 90's Sonic games. That is not your fault because that's in Heroes, but it is just worse here than the official games because I can just completely skip over it (which makes it look even more stupid); and not to mention that the way it's laid out looks rather empty and ugly.

-The button hunting and Badnik murder is blatantly forced in there to make the maps seem longer because there's little to nothing to do in them.

-Aesthetically speaking, these are your best maps yet. But like a lot of your other map packs, some of the textures don't look well converted into SRB2. New, custom textures that mimic the textures from Heroes rather than directly ripping them would look far better, but you would need to find somebody with that level of skill.

-I'm sure you're aware, but Bigs, Omegas, and other miscellaneous sprites are aesthetic eyesores. Big and Omega look outright silly, especially since they can both climb walls all of a sudden. The only characters in the pack that have been officially established to climb walls are Knuckles and Vector. If physics exist here, Big could not keep his 616 pound behind sticking to a wall, much less be able to climb up it as steady as he does. Omega at least has sharp claws, but he still looks pretty absurd climbing up a wall the way he does here.

-Speaking of sprites and aesthetics, the clashing sprite styles between all of the characters looks terrible. But that's not exactly your fault either since making a complete individual character requires at least a years worth of development to be any good, and these are all just dated skins that already exist.

-Most of the sound effects are at an incredibly low volume or don't even play. I don't understand what is wrong with them.

-The point is to emulate Heroes as exact as possible, or at least I think so. But why? These kind of level packs never seem to work properly with SRB2. Since a lot of those 3D Sonic games people try to emulate already have sub-par level design most of the time, it just looks even worse in SRB2 with all the fancy graphics and loops from the actual games not there. Heroes itself is not very good, why would you want to degrade the superior gameplay of SRB2 to the gameplay of Heroes? Giving each character the same set of abilities is stupid. I picked on Shadow expecting him to have his actually fun and useful abilities that Speedwagon gave him, only to find that he has a homing thok (and why you would get rid of the spin frames and revert them to jump frames, I don't know).

I honestly think that the best thing you can do here is design your own maps rather than trying to copy Sonic Teams mediocre level design, that are based off of the same themes as the levels in Heroes. Keep the team switch functions, but make each character have individual abilities as well. Get rid of the monotonous button hunting and Badnik killing. Sonic Team had a decent idea going with Heroes, but executed it terribly. You can use this opportunity to do one better than them. Also, until somebody makes a Big and Omega that actually look decent, I would keep them out of the mod. This could apply for other characters too. I'm pretty sure I remember a quality Omega being worked on by someone, but I don't know if that project is still relevant.

Overall, this mod is fairly unappealing and I never even attempted to complete it after the first 2 maps in single player. I basically skimmed through all the maps with multiplayers level select. You really need to find yourself some good sprite and texture artists, too.

Most of this may seem like nitpicking at looks, but they are pretty important. If Big the Cat climbing up a poorly textured wall like Spiderman was published into an official title and released, that game would be the laughing stock of the year, and the Sonic Twitter would post a meme of it.

Sorry if it seems like I am directly shitting on you, I know you probably put quite a bit of effort into this despite the quality. So I can at least respect that. These maps could at least be good for hangout.

---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------


The one that is currently used in the pack is better. The one Yacker made is literally the same thing with duller colors, less refined lines, and the flight icon in the wrong place. I don't see how it's so original compared to the current one.

Well... thanks for your opinion but I think you are over reaction just a little bit. I alredy said that Big and Omega sprites are bad, and if someone makes a good one, I ll replace them. They are not the main focus of the mod as you can see.

About the level design, its actually my own in most parts. I am not trying to copy or emulate Heroes at all, I just use some parts so you feel that the level is familiar in some way. Out of all the people in the forum you are the only one that said the level design is bad, wich I respect because it s your opinion. Also Heroes is not "BAD" in level design, I think its pretty good.

And I could understand if you HATE the enemy kill or buttons parts, but there isnt too much of it in this mod, like really. They are pretty easy and short and doesnt consume a lot of time, so you might look at that again. The only 2 levels of the mod where that is used as a gimmick are Mystic Mansion and Egg Fortress.
 
Well... thanks for your opinion but I think you are over reaction just a little bit. I alredy said that Big and Omega sprites are bad, and if someone makes a good one, I ll replace them. They are not the main focus of the mod as you can see.

About the level design, its actually my own in most parts. I am not trying to copy or emulate Heroes at all, I just use some parts so you feel that the level is familiar in some way. Out of all the people in the forum you are the only one that said the level design is bad, wich I respect because it s your opinion. Also Heroes is not "BAD" in level design, I think its pretty good.

And I could understand if you HATE the enemy kill or buttons parts, but there isnt too much of it in this mod, like really. They are pretty easy and short and doesnt consume a lot of time, so you might look at that again. The only 2 levels of the mod where that is used as a gimmick are Mystic Mansion and Egg Fortress.

I feel that Big and Omega are just big eye sores in this mod. They really contribute nothing anyway since Knuckles and Vector have the same exact abilities, and don't look completely absurd either. But I guess that is your choice to keep them in.

If you're not trying to do an emulation of Heroes, then why would you include bad parts such as every character playing almost the exact same? Or the mindless homing thok sections? It just seems silly to me. It really does feel like you are trying to emulate it. I would really just go back and re-design all of the maps. Do it as if you were creating your own maps for SRB2 that had nothing to do with some other game. But like I said previously, you could still use the themes of the levels from Heroes too. This would be interesting to see.

Out of all the people on the forum, a good percentage of the active members didn't even comment on this wad, or its level design. That's not a very fair comparison.

In my opinion, Heroes was a pretty sub-par title, though I can still manage to enjoy quite a bit about it. To put it as short as I can, the game shits on you with grades. You're supposed to complete the level with a good amount of rings and all the level ups, which would require exploration of the level, but at the same time complete it fastly. This is stupid, and why I never bother with that. The controls are also feel quite wonky and slippery at times, but that may depend on what console you're playing it on. The fact that you have to complete the game as every team just to unlock the final boss is a terrible idea. Completing Sonic Heroes 100% is tedious, and I have never done it. I could go in to more, but that's really not what this thread is about anyway.

I never said I "HATE" the Badnik murder or button hunting, I just said it was boring and repetitive. They are one of the most uncreative puzzles you could have in a video game. Are you sure only those two levels used those gimmicks? Pretty sure they were in other maps too; and I definitely recall seeing them in the first and second maps.
 
Well, I know I didn't comment about how the first version was and all, but I have to say that the lastest update kinda... broke it. Not in a glitchy way, more in a way where the levels lost their point. You can basically just switch between characters when it eases you the most whenever you want, while, in the previous versions, you had to deal with what the level offered as challenge to each character; some parts were easy for them, and other were harder. That being said, you could rework the levels to fix this, even if it means scrapping whole sections.


Also, about the Heroes HUD, I'm not giving away flowers to myself, but, I don't like the one Yacker made. It feels pretty bland and dull. ...And about the old one I made based on the Sonic Heroes icon rather than the in-level ones; literally anyone with MSPaint can resize the holes in them. :T

470847SONHA0.png

half assed 5 minutes edit.

Then again, looking at some screenshots, I don't really like how the heads are thrown into the HUD. Something about them feels off, might be the lack of AA to blend them in the HUD, I don't really know.
 
I see you took my teams code and made it ten times better than I can! Great work! (I'm jealous... I wanna be like you guys some day)
 
I love this wad! I have so much fun on it especially on the second version, where you have the teams. You should make it like Sonic World Fan Game and put the other teams. Just a suggestion :)
 
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I love this wad! I have so much fun on it especially on the second version, where you have the teams. You should make it like Sonic World Fan Game and put the other teams. Just a suggestion :)

Thanks! What other teams are you refering to? Babylon and others? I ll just use the original teams for this
 

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