Just to clear this up, because its being tossed around again (SRB2DS)

Ok,

I've (and probably others) been asked quite a bit recently about the possibility an SRB2DS, not just members from here, other places too, and I just want to clear this up: THE NINTENDO DS IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH TO RUN SRB2. AT ALL. STOP ASKING.

The DSi on the other hand, there may be a SLIGHT, VERY SLIGHT possibility SRB2 MAY work, at least start. I'm probably not really the person to ask on this however, you'll have to consult with Alam or Logan, who will most likely say no anyway. =)

I sincerely doubt SRB2 would run even on the DSi. To better put things in perspective, the PSP would be all but maxed out running SRB2, if it were able to run at all. Both the DS and DSi are far more limited in processing power and memory (yes, even though the DSi has four times the RAM). If there ever is a build of SRB2 for DS, I predict it will never get past the proof of concept stage. It can be done, but it will never be playable.

If SRB2 could run on the DSi, it would be the only reason I'd buy it.

...looks like I'm not buying a DSi. >_>

Callum said:

THE NINTENDO DS IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH TO RUN SRB2. AT ALL.

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Sure it is. Dump the MP3s (mp3 playback is slow), reduce animated textures (particularily water), minimize repeating textures, shave the resolution of anything 128+ sized, trim the grass edge midtextures, upload textures as 4bit color (most of them use nothing more than 16 colors at once anyway), resample the sounds to 8000hz, manage actors only when onscreen (cycles congestion with ai behavior), drop some idle frames and it'll fit. It'll probably be even more optimal to use low-poly (no lazy sonic heroes rips), small texture models instead of sprites for the player, since the player has tons of frames to deal with, and uploading all that to the texture cache would quickly fill it up. To keep it within the strict polygon count you could have a distance clipping fog.

I mean Quake is possible on the DS and that's a technically more complex game than SRB2, and prBoom has been ported to DS fine. You make this sound like it's an impossible lost cause. :)

The first step in all of his would probably be an effort to get OpenGL unbroken first, since you will not want to render this in software on the DS. I know the DS doesn't use OpenGL, but all those translations to polygons need to be sorted first.

Even if it could be done, what's the point? Just to prove we could? SRB2 is perfectly fine on a PC.

fawfulfan said:

SRB2 is perfectly fine on a PC.

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But can you play SRB2 on the loo?

a bee said:

But can you play SRB2 on the loo?

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PSP

10char

a bee said:

Sure it is. Dump the MP3s (mp3 playback is slow), reduce animated textures (particularily water), minimize repeating textures, shave the resolution of anything 128+ sized, trim the grass edge midtextures, upload textures as 4bit color (most of them use nothing more than 16 colors at once anyway), resample the sounds to 8000hz, manage actors only when onscreen (cycles congestion with ai behavior), drop some idle frames and it'll fit. It'll probably be even more optimal to use low-poly (no lazy sonic heroes rips), small texture models instead of sprites for the player, since the player has tons of frames to deal with, and uploading all that to the texture cache would quickly fill it up. To keep it within the strict polygon count you could have a distance clipping fog.

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All of this is MUCH easier said than done and would take a lot of effort just optimizing the engine in general. Considering how hideously Software runs on the PC to begin with, I'd much rather them improve Software mode on PC before even bothering with managing a DS port (or a PSP port). That, or make OpenGL better; the whole of the SRB2 single player campaign is easily playable in OpenGL bar some invisible transparent FOF flats, translucent FOF issues, invisible fog blocks (lasers in ERZ) and awkward looking character scaling; heck, OpenGL actually plays a whole lot smoother than Software...

I'm sure optimizations will be done for the PSP if required, and if that even gets anywhere decent, maybe one could take a further branch for a DS port. Honestly, I'd rather have DC SRB2 anyways.

Penopat said:

Considering how hideously Software runs on the PC to begin with,

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This is news to me. If it's slow on a modern computer, it's probably a driver bug with handling screen palettes, rather than the actual renderer itself. The software rendering bits call for something of a 300MHz 6th generation (K6, Pentium II) CPU for decent performance in 320x200.

Well, even if Software runs just fine, it's still bulky on CPU time and somewhat limited compared to OpenGL's potential, plus it looks ugly in places. Personally, I would rather see the as-near-perfect-as-possible PC release, with bots, OGL, and all those currently missing levels first.

a bee said:

This is news to me. If it's slow on a modern computer, it's probably a driver bug with handling screen palettes, rather than the actual renderer itself. The software rendering bits call for something of a 300MHz 6th generation (K6, Pentium II) CPU for decent performance in 320x200.

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Sure, it runs pretty fine in, say, GFZ1. Sadly, when you get to the later, more complex levels, there is lag abound - heck, ERZ1 STARTS with a decent amount of frameskipping for me.
In comparison, OpenGL runs as smooth as butter, and beyond a few missing features, looks and plays a whole lot better.

SRB2 is a performance mess.