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Old 11-05-2009   #1
Fawfulfan
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Default NiGHTS CTF...possible or not?

While playing on a netgame recently, my fellow netgamers were talking about CTF maps they were planning to make, and I mentioned, slightly offtopicly, that I had recently made a NiGHTS level. They misunderstood, thinking that I had designed a NiGHTS CTF course, and they thought that it sounded awesome. They were all disappointed when I told them it was actually Single Player.

But that whole exchange got me thinking...could a NiGHTS CTF stage be created? On paper, it sounds impossible, but I want to know what you guys think. If it seems possible, I might actually attempt it.
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Old 11-05-2009   #2
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I don't think it's possible for Super Sonic to even grab the flag.
The view and the controls might be a problem as well.
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Old 11-05-2009   #3
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Believe me. Anything is possible in Srb2. But I think it would be possible. It kinda would'nt be fun cause you are on a set track as Super Sonic.
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Old 11-05-2009   #4
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Even if NiGHTS Super Sonic can grab the flag, though, I'm not sure he could capture it. How would you make the Team Bases detect NiGHTS Super Sonic?

That aside, I would assume that you would need to make two coincident mares--one for the Blue Team and one for the Red Team--and place all spawn points on the corresponding Ideya Drones. Unless...

Hey, here's an idea! 2D NiGHTS CTF, with the spawn points placed away from the Ideya Drones! That could create some interesting strategic moves...for one thing, some people would choose to follow the NiGHTS track, and others would choose to wander the course freely in 2D mode. Then, a Super Sonic player would grab a flag, non-NiGHTS players of the same team would follow him, and the NiGHTS player would drop the flag, thus passing it to a non-NiGHTS teammate who would then score.
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Old 11-05-2009   #5
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Possible, yes.
Practical, no. Not in the slightest. First, EVERYTHING that you want to be an obstacle needs to be an FOF. Period. Second, you can't have axes and be able to hit the opposing player. Third, you can't aim in any direction besides where you're facing. Sure, the same applies to normal SRB2, but when you consider how turning works in NiGHTS, it's a whole different story. Fourth, there'd be no decent way to tell who your teammates are. Fifth, you'd be dealing with paraloops EVERYWHERE, making the game ridiculous to play.

So no, no NiGHTS CTF.
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Old 11-05-2009   #6
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Yeah, it probably wouldn't be that practical...but I still want to try making one, just as a challenge to myself. Considering those issues, however, it may not be wise to release it. Time will tell.
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Old 11-05-2009   #7
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Would it be possible to add an object that has the ability to hold a flag like a player, and put the object on the base so when a player drops the flag, the "object player" catches it, thus, capturing the flag?
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Old 11-05-2009   #8
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Believe me. Anything is possible in Srb2.
Slopes.
Polyobjects with flats.

As for NiGHTS CTF, it sounds like a goddamn MESS. I can see ti now; Paraloops around every corner, rings picked up at the blink of an eye with no chance at stealing 'em back, not being able to see ANYONE within a medium distance, and not being able to tell apart the NiGHTS Super Sonics. I can only see this as being god awful.
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Old 11-05-2009   #9
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The color problem can be easily fixed with sprite replacements. As for the rest, God you are pessimistic.
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Old 11-06-2009   #10
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The color problem can be easily fixed with sprite replacements. As for the rest, God you are pessimistic.
I highly doubt you can just change NiGHTS Super Sonic's color to green or whatever to fix it, and I am certain NiGHTS Super Sonic does not actually work that way. You'd probably need an EXE mod to do that. And this just sounds like a bad idea both on paper and in practice.
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Old 11-06-2009   #11
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The color problem can be easily fixed with sprite replacements. As for the rest, God you are pessimistic.
We aren't being pessimistic at all.
There's numerous flaws that would be encountered in a CTF or Match game with NiGHTS mode on.
NiGHTS Super Sonic uses the same sprites, no matter what character you're using or what color you are. There's no way to differentiate players from each other outside of EXE coding.
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Old 11-06-2009   #12
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I'm pretty sure there are a lot of bugs when it comes to multiplayering with NiGHTS Sonic. At least there were back in 1.09.4, when paralooping other players caused weird behaviors.

I'm honestly not sure, but I don't have to guess to say there are quite a few bugs preventing NiGHTS CTF from working expectantly; sorry. A really fun idea, though, and I imagine a really good map could be made if it were possible!
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Old 11-06-2009   #13
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The mode simply won't be fun because of:
  • NiGHTS's hard to use controls.
  • Possible chances of breaking the axis and getting stuck.
  • The inability to die.
  • NiGHTS has a pretty boring way of attacking.
  • The colors of the characters would be the same.
  • NiGHTS can't really handle caves and gimmicks.
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Old 11-06-2009   #14
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Oh, be nice :) I designed ye olde Botanic Serenity and I can think of a few good ways to make a CTF NiGHTS level. They all involve clever 2D level design and clever use of curves and loops and travel patterns -- and eye candy too.
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Old 11-06-2009   #15
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The main problem is that the Nights mode mechanics don't work well for a competitive game, really.
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Old 11-06-2009   #16
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It sounds that you would have to mod it so that you can at least tolerate the gameplay. Use Riders' NiGHTS players, allow players to shoot while in NiGHTS mode, and to not move when hurt. That one will help reduce the chances of going outside the Axis Transfers.

It might also help if the camera was a bit farther away to see other players, and if the acceleration was faster.


Still, I doubt that anyone will actually bother making this, since it sounds like it could be fun for a few minutes.
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Old 11-06-2009   #17
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YIKES!!! I tried making a map last night, and my hopes of NiGHTS CTF even functioning at all have fallen sharply. I have discovered problems besides the ones mentioned here that would make NiGHTS CTF even harder to do well.

First of all, chasecam does NOT automatically kick in when a player touches the Ideya Drone...which makes the NiGHTS track look like a mess. And manually having to toggle chasecam on and off does not make for a good CTF match.

This problem can be solved by setting the level to 2D mode...but that creates a host of other problems. For one thing, you have to overcome a bunch of other problems if you want to make a 2D CTF stage--although it might be more feasible than NiGHTS. For another, and this is really important, NiGHTS mode and 2D mode do NOT mix. The camera does not follow NiGHTS Super Sonic properly if the level is also in 2D mode.

I'm thinking that if NiGHTS CTF is to be a serious possibly, we'll need to make a special EXE mod for it.
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Old 11-07-2009   #18
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This doesn't mean you have to give up though, if you have an idea worth making you need to put work into it.
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Old 11-07-2009   #19
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This doesn't mean you have to give up though, if you have an idea worth making you need to put work into it.
While this is true, NiGHTS is a rather stupid idea. It's an impractical mess. The para looping and drilling would just not be good for CTF or match.

...Though, it'd make an interesting game of tag if done right, maybe...
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Old 11-07-2009   #20
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While this is true, NiGHTS is a rather stupid idea. It's an impractical mess. The para looping and drilling would just not be good for CTF or match.
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Also, what yiou said about slopes and polyobjects with flats will come in SRB2. Just it'll take a while. They are not impossible. The slopes thing won't happen, but it's definately possible.

What I'm seing now is the people who think this is stupid completely only think it's stupid because it's different, while you're complaining about the game SRB2 itself because it's the same. Really, just think about it, it could work. Just, open your mind and let the imagination flow.

I was thinking that the players start on one or the other axis line points so that you can shoot in straight lines. Then make a rounded area near each base so that you can go the the other axis point and shoot from there.
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