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Old 05-08-2012   #81
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Originally Posted by Charybdizs View Post
But please, no DCZ textures. :x
They seem like the best choice for roads and sidewalks, as they were specifically designed for that purpose. (In case I wasn't clear enough in my original post, I only intend for them to be used for those things, not for buildings or other major structures.) Also, I like the idea of the beehive-based zone. Perhaps some beeswax gimmicks, such as bustable wax and enemies that drop globs of hot wax, would be interesting inclusions?
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Old 05-08-2012   #82
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Just another opinion regarding Katmint's idea. I personally don't find lava underwater to be too mind-blowingly unrealistic for a Sonic game.
Also, remember this?: Labyrinth Zone Fire

Lastly, I think the lava underwater idea could look pretty neat.
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Old 05-08-2012   #83
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In about 12 hours I will close zone submissions and make the voting thread. So if you have any ideas you want to submit, or make any edits to your zone suggestion, make sure you do it soon or you'll miss your window of opportunity.
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Old 05-08-2012   #84
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@Katmint, I think the main problem is that the lava texture used shouldn't be RLAVA1, which is used for lava that is transculent and can be fallen in. It is better to use DLAVA1, which resembles molten rock and should act like quicksand and, of course, should have fire damage.
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Old 05-08-2012   #85
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Does this include unlockable level ideas, or just main zones?
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Old 05-08-2012   #86
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Originally Posted by LightspeedX View Post
I think the main problem is that the lava texture used shouldn't be RLAVA1, which is used for lava that is transculent and can be fallen in. It is better to use DLAVA1, which resembles molten rock and should act like quicksand and, of course, should have fire damage.
Actually, I was imagining texture-wise:

Floor lava: Opaque RLAVA.

Floating: The DLAVA texture you suggested. It wouldn't act like quicksand, just a floating harmful lump of hot squishy rock.

Surface: The non-animated black DLAVA. This lava is cooled enough to be used as a safe platform and bobs on the surface.

Basically, the general idea is that the lava comes up from the ground, then as it floats up it becomes cooler, being solid rock by the time it reaches the surface. There's really no way to make it actively do that but it was my inspiration for the different kinds of lava.
Just pretend it happens offscreen, I guess. :P

Last edited by Katmint; 05-08-2012 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 05-09-2012   #87
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Originally Posted by Blade View Post
Does this include unlockable level ideas, or just main zones?
Just main zones. Unlockables is something that needs to be discussed further down the line, and to be honest the unlockables will likely be made out of unreleased scraps or levels people made a start on that are not going to be included in the final pack, like Boinciel's Arpifact Zone Zone. Developing the main zones will always have a much higher priority though.
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Old 05-09-2012   #88
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First off, a few additional gimmicks for zones already suggested.

Cloudy Domain Zone
-Wind : pretty obvious. Would need some texture/partical effect to show where it is. One part could be where you're floating through a hallway, dodging storm clouds.
-Rainbows : would act as conveyor belts.

Zany Ziggurat Zone
-Earthquakes : Imagine this; You come up to a fairly easy looking platforming section, when all of a sudden RUMBLERUMBLERUMBLE, and the ground it broken up, revealing lava and islands of land bobbing in and out of it, making it far harder.
-Dinosaur Badniks : Not totally sure what they would do yet, but they should be themed off them.
-Piranha Plant Badnik : Stationary. Fires bouncing fireballs at a distance, and tries to eat the player then they are close. May also work as a boss mecha.

And now a new theme:

Frost Factory
--Theme--
Blue factory with a pale-blue colormap. Metal textures could have some icy effect to show that they're frozen over.

Act 2 could have the heating systems turned on, adding fire jets and hot metal to the mix. With a lot of the factory now unthawed, there are a lot more moving traps, such as crushers and moving platforms.

--Gimmicks--
-Ice : Seeing as it'd mostly be made out of really cold metal, almost all of the level would be slippery.
-Conveyor belts : Moves the player through various construction lines. Some would be disabled, and would require a switch to turn them on. others would be reversible.
-Frost Jets : Freezes the player.
-Fire Jets : Act 2 only.
-Thick Ice : Would need to be melted. Maybe have switches that turn on near-by Flame jets?
-Burning Platforms : Metal too hot to touch. Perhaps have switches that turn on near-by Frost jets to cool them off?

--Badniks--
-Hot Head : Periodicly fires a ring of fire around itself. May also have fire coming out of it's head at all times.
-Cool Head : Icy version of Hot Head.

--Boss--
Not really sure yet.

--Music--
Calmer version of the Ice Factory from Kirby 64, maybe?
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Old 05-09-2012   #89
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Why not? I enjoy really outrageous gimmicks. It really makes the level a lot more memorable.
Outrageous is fine. It should be obvious why violation of common sense isn't, unless the theme of the level is "messing with the player's head".

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The water would still drown you and act like water, the lava would still burn you and act like lava. Nothing acts against what the player would expect, it's just both at the same time.
Exactly, it's both at the same time. In SRB2, water cancels out fire damage, so a player would expect lava to vanish upon touching water (in real life, the water would vaporize, but SRB2 is not real life). I'm not even sure if you could get the lava to damage the player at all, because SRB2's water is programmed to cancel out fire damage.

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Originally Posted by Katmint View Post
Also, I should point to Super Mario Galaxy which violated all matter of "common sense" especially with ice touching lava and nothing happening which is arguably a worse violation than water touching lava and nothing happening, and yet I've seen nothing but praise for that level's creativity.
Does ice have fire-extinguishing properties in video games? Or does lava have ice-melting properties in video games? Even though I think it's a stupid concept anyway (haven't played the level), it doesn't violate the player's expectations anywhere near as much as mixing a fire-based hazard with something that cancels out fire.

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On a closing note, this.
What about that?

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Originally Posted by Ultimate View Post
Just another opinion regarding Katmint's idea. I personally don't find lava underwater to be too mind-blowingly unrealistic for a Sonic game.
The problem isn't that it's unrealistic. The problem is that it violates the game's ground rules.

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Also, remember this?: Labyrinth Zone Fire
That part is really stupid and should have never happened.
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Old 05-09-2012   #90
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Starlit City Zone
--Theme--
A calm city near the edge of a green valley, taking place at night. A faint blue color map could help make it feel more darkish.

Act 1:

You start out on a countryside road next to some grassy cliffs, from time to time the player will be forced off into the valley thanks to road blocks. While in the valley the player must climb trees and explore caves. After making their way out of the countryside they finish the level at the city's small tourist square.

Act 2:
You start off in a small residential area, and quickly work you way through the streets, going into some scenic areas for some more tree-based platforming. From the tops of the trees you make it onto a large building through a ladder, and start to work your way back down from the inside. Afterwards, you find yourself on the city's streets. You must now make your way through the city, using the objects on the streets to help you get past some blockaids that try to stop you. You clear the act by reaching the city's plaza, with a fountain in the center.

--Gimmicks--
Speed pads: these will be used in some areas to help give the player a boost by sending them into ball mode, useful for breaking objects that are in your way. They can also be used to send the player the WRONG way, and breaking open a trap!
Water slides: While in the valley, the waterfalls will sometimes be connected to a stream that the player can ride down. Watch out for the debris on them though, it will hurt if you slam into them!
Water geysers: These are found in the valleys and city, you can use these to get to higher areas, they can also be holding up platforms!
Thick grass: The grass in the valley can get thick causing, the player's movement and jump height to be hindered. This can lead to some tricky platforming, and also hide some nasty traps.
Fans: While in the city, there will be fans placed about on the roads that will blow you back if you try to walk towards them. They can also be used on the floor to blow you upwards!
Escalators: When inside buildings, escalators can be used to quickly travel up to higher floors!... IF they are going that way, sometimes you will need to switch the directions to get higher up!

--Badniks--
Unidus Type A: This one moves at the player with it's spiked balls spinning horizontally.
Unidus Type B: This one moves at the player with it's spiked balls spinning vertically.
Molebot: Stays in it's little hole, pops up with a mushroom when the player gets close and throws it at them, if it hits it will knock the player back as if they hit a spring.
Bomb Bot: Dat bomb from Sonic 1, only this time it chases you once lit.
Cattakiller: Slowly moves at the player, can only be killed by spinning into him. Trying to jump on him will only make you look stupid by having yourself impaled by spikes.

--Boss--
The boss takes place in the plaza at the end of act 2, the boss being the Eggmobile with monster truck wheels added on.

Attack 1: Dashes at the player at a extremely high speed, if the player is hit they will be knocked back as if they was hit by a bomb ring.
Attack 2: Pulls a wheelie while moving forward a bit and then jumps into the air, when it lands it will send out a shock wave that will knock the player upwards if they do not jump.
Pain: When hit, Eggman pulls into reverse and backs a good distance away while firing missiles at the player.
Panic: Dashes at the player 3 times, right before dashing he will fire out 2 missiles.

The only way to attack Eggman is to get up higher with the help of objects in the arena, like the fountain or some boxes. Attacking from below will only get yourself into first-class roadkill.

--Music--
Act 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICw1fflWf2U
Act 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsrRQLET4ew
----

That's all I have for now, not that it matters since the deadline is coming fast.
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Old 05-09-2012   #91
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I'm not even sure if you could get the lava to damage the player at all, because SRB2's water is programmed to cancel out fire damage.
I checked, lava in water works perfectly fine. A little unconventional, but functional none the less. Honestly, I have no problem with lava in water, because it's a safe assumption that the player is clever enough to use some common sense and figure out that lava, no matter the context, is harful to the player.

Anyway, voting thread is up. Go see the approved maps and make your voices heard.
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Old 05-09-2012   #92
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I checked, lava in water works perfectly fine. A little unconventional, but functional none the less. Honestly, I have no problem with lava in water, because it's a safe assumption that the player is clever enough to use some common sense and figure out that lava, no matter the context, is harful to the player.
Oh, the player would figure it out alright. But he would still think "what the hell is this supposed to be?".

Come on, I can't be the only one who would think "this is stupid" upon seeing chunks of lava submerged in water.

Also, you seem to have forgotten Stealth Operation Zone from Zipper's post on the first page in the voting thread. Unless you left it out on purpose for whatever reason I can't fathom.

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Old 05-09-2012   #93
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Also, you seem to have forgotten Stealth Operation Zone from Zipper's post on the first page in the voting thread. Unless you left it out on purpose for whatever reason I can't fathom.
Whoops, thanks for pointing that out. Edited it in now.

Edit: there was a discussion on the irc channel earlier about merging Cloudy Domain and Heavenly Tower together, and also merging the three swamp themed zones, Zany Ziggurat, Blue Lagoon and Pirate Swamps together as well. This would be done because the zones are very similar thematically and having the votes split between them means that there is a chance none of them would be voted in despite community support towards the theme.

If I merge the themes together for the voting, only the voters who voted on any of these 5 maps will need to revote.

While I'm happy to do this, I want to see if there are any objections from this plan beforehand. Especially from the people who suggested these maps in the first place.
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Old 05-09-2012   #94
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There were also some suggestions of merging Frost Factory with Cryonic City as well as merging Black Water with Searing Sea, although these weren't as universally agreed upon.
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Old 05-09-2012   #95
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I think most themes should be merged so we can get the most out of this as we can.

And since this is the suggestions thread, will the special stages be like new SRB2 special stages or will they be original?
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Old 05-09-2012   #96
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I've gotten confirmation from Charybdiz and Chrome that they are okay with their levels being merged, so Zany Ziggurat and and Blue Lagoon have been combined. But Blade turned the offer down, so those are the only two levels that have been merged. Blade and Tyler have since agreed to merge their levels together, so Cloudy Domain and Heavenly Tower are now merged also Charybdiz and Katmint asked for Searing Sea and Black Water to be merged as well, so that has been done.

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And since this is the suggestions thread, will the special stages be like new SRB2 special stages or will they be original?
Original special stages would be ideal, but I'll open up a discussion about special stages to help brainstorm what we want to do with them after the voting is finished and production on the main levels begins. But if you have any interesting ideas already in your head then feel free to bring them up now!
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Last edited by Whackjood; 05-10-2012 at 12:22 AM. Reason: Everybody wants to merge their maps
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Old 05-09-2012   #97
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Just to get clarification, we can start progress on any level we feel like? Just to show our own ideas?
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Old 05-10-2012   #98
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Go for it! Even if you make a beta for a level that isn't voted in, you can expand on it and either release it on your own or ask for me to include it as a secret level in the pack. If it is voted in, then fantastic, you've got a lovely head start.
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Old 05-10-2012   #99
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Come on, I can't be the only one who would think "this is stupid" upon seeing chunks of lava submerged in water.
You're definitely not the only one, I feel this way too, I just don't have anything to add to this completely trivial argument.

The level sounds bad ANYWAY, let alone with the stupid gimmick like that.
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Old 05-10-2012   #100
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Gravity Garden Zone is the main one that stood out at me and caught my attention. I can't really think of any others I'd particularly like to see.
You want Honeyhive Zone.

This is not a jedi mind trick.
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