Funny thing is, it's not supposed to. I've already started working on Act 2's theme.
-
Do not use Works in Progress as a way of avoiding the releases system! Works in Progress can be used for sharing early betas and for getting suggestions for improvement. Releases of finished content are not allowed in this forum! If you would like to submit a finished addon, click here for instructions on how to do so.
Single player collab discussion thread
- Thread starter MellowJacket
- Start date
- Status
742mph
My work is never done yet
I can and have logically denied that my boss is just an Egg Mobile. It has a different strategy (get close after it attacks, quickly run away, dodge each attack with a different movement pattern, etc.), different attacks (rotary attack, explosion cloud, turretfire, shrinking, throwing its shield), a different method of damaging it (deplete its shield by encouraging it to attack more, then quickly run up and hit it before it recharges), and is in general a different boss. I suspect that if the sprites were unique from the beginning, you wouldn't be insulting it by calling it an Egg Mobile, because it really isn't. I'm not the one being stubborn here. I'm backing up my conclusions with logic. I'm not making unexplained and indeed unexplainable accusations. And as for turning it into a badnik, how exactly would you propose to condense all of its abilities into a single enemy with one attack? You probably just said that because I proposed downgrading the steampunk Metal, so now you're trying to start a pointless downgrading war that will ultimately go nowhere. Don't try to deny it, I've seen newbies do stuff like that before, and even did it myself when I was as new to the MB as you are.
...I really don't understand how you think. You don't put any real pride in your work, do you? You dismiss everything you've made as (insert overly profane insult here) because there's some insignificant flaw that nobody but you cares about. I don't remember anyone mentioning the fact that DK used the basic Egg Mobile thinker or any of the other things that you said about him in their reviews of Dumbventure, and that can only mean one thing: other people approve of your work more than you do! Somehow, you, the designer, the only one who can truly appreciate the thought and effort put into constructing your creation, have failed to get as much out of it as the players, who are usually the ones who don't get very much out of a single boss or level other than "Eh, I liked it". I'm sorry, but I just have a hard time grasping how the relationship you have with work as complex as what you create can exist.
Last edited:
742mph, personally I think you're just blinding yourself to the obvious because you created the thing. There is only so much you can do with bosses that act like the Eggmobile. Just look at the custom bosses in Mystic Realm and you can easily see that limitations of the "floating weapons platform that moves around" boss concept. They all operate really similarly no matter what you have them shoot and surely we all figured this out 5 years ago back in 1.X. At this point you're dangerously close to flaming D00D for simply stating his opinion and ignoring everything around you. I really suggest you calm down and notice that nobody is backing you up before you continue down your crusader's path.
Katmint
My main problem with the shield mobile is how slow and tedious it is. You stand next to the shield, get hit by projectile spam, pick up your dropped rings, rinse and repeat until his shield is down, then rinse and repeat again for each hit. The pinch phase is slightly more interesting with the shield throwing bit, but in the end the boss is just a boring waiting game.
On the other hand, the ZZZ boss is fairly neat if a bit too similar to the Sea Egg.
On the other hand, the ZZZ boss is fairly neat if a bit too similar to the Sea Egg.
MellowJacket
The unreliable judge
Many of the problems which plagued the original boss are still present in the updated version and that's just the fact of the matter. It's certainly better now, but there's still a lot of improvements that can be made.
If you are determined to continue improving the boss, then find a way to give the player something to do while waiting for the shield to go down instead of endlessly dodging attacks and occasionally standing near Eggman. Even if this means the player can bring the shield down faster than you originally expected by attacking a generator, or the shield itself, it's much preferrable than forcing the player to wait for 3 attacks between each hit.
Regarding the issue of the boss (or any boss made in future) being a reworked eggmobile. Unless someone steps up and makes new bosses that aren't reworked versions of older bosses, then we're just going to have to deal with it. But I also know very little about soccing and I have no idea what is possible and what isn't.
I'll Begin
🐑✨
And to deviate from the Steam Engine controversy. (even though he clearly asked for criticism)
Lava is opaque anyway, you know. It's not water, it's molten rock.
742mph
My work is never done yet
The lava in RVZ is actually transluscent. That's why I pointed it out.
The reason it's so common for custom bosses to be "Egg Mobiles" is because that's pretty much the only way to make custom bosses without them being extremely complex. To make a boss that moves around like the Sea Egg (such as my Egg Blazer) but doesn't use the exact same strategy as it requires a minimum of 6 objects. Plus, the Egg Mobile thinker is the one that custom bosses automatically use, so a workaround is required in order to override the thinker. Also, all of the projectile-related actions fire directly at the target and cannot be set to shoot in a specific direction, meaning that more objects must be created (such as the "bomb waypoints" at the centers of ZZZ3's four platforms) in order to create missile-based attacks that don't aim right at the player. That is basically why so many custom bosses fly around and shoot stuff directly at you. This will all change in 2.1, hopefully, with the appearance of Lua compatibility, but we'll see. As for now, scrap the Egg Proximity if you want. I would recommend keeping the Egg Blazer, however, since the few people who have mentioned it seem to like it.
Last edited:
Really, because if I recall, no one in IRC likes the boss very much. It's just an egg-mobile with an unnecessarily super complicated attack pattern and projectile spam. D00D gave great points about what actually makes Donkey Kracken so interesting to fight as well, quit blinding yourself and outright flaming. Just because someone doesn't have equal talent doesn't mean they have no right to criticize serious and obvious flaws in other people's work.
What makes you think YOU are the "collective" opinion?
Last edited:
PrismaticAngel
Dutch word-doer
Like EvilEternity up here, I have also drawn up some ideas, though they don't look nearly as nicely drawn as he has.
Anyway, here they are:
FFZ icicle: Tries to impale the player, and after it falls on the ground, stays there and can be used as a stepping stone to get to hidden or otherwise inaccesible areas.
SEZ hot steam: Pretty much the steam equivalent of flame jets, which come out of broken pipes.
HoHZ beehive: Releases bees that attack the player, either the bees are enemies themselves or are projectiles shot by the beehive. After the hive is empty, it falls to the ground and explodes, either immediatly like a bomb from a skim, or after a certain time like a grenade ring.
HoHZ Honey shooter: Shoot honey that acts like Brak Eggman's goop that holds the player still for a few seconds.
ZZZ Electro eel: When a player comes within the vicinity of this enemy, it flashes for a while before zapping everyone within a certain distance of the enemy.
Not shown is an idea about fake spikes that teleport the player to a secret area after stepping on them.
Anyone is free to use my ideas to make them into sprites and such, just give me credit for it.
Last edited:
Monster Iestyn
Fangtastic
...Act 2 doesn't sound as busy as that to me, hrm. As for what you've said about Act 1 though, that's somewhat okay, given it's meant to be only the mountain path/garden/graveyard/whatever leading to the main castle, and so wouldn't be necessarily as scary as Act 2.
Also, Act 2 sounding like the moon crashing to the Earth? That's more downright terrifying than merely creepy, really. Hedgehog-eating pianos and giant eels would probably kill the creepy atmosphere - besides which, there's not supposed to be any enemies/monsters/ghosts in HHZ whatsoever, if you remember my description of the zone back in the suggestions topic.
On the other hand, there are supposed to be guillotines about in Act 2, but showing actual blood and gore and whatever would obviously be going too far. =V
I think you misunderstood him. He wasn't suggesting any of those things, he said that your MIDI sounds too creepy for the purpose of the level.
I think it sounds fine. It's supposed to be a scary level that uses scary surroundings and scary ambience. Not to mention lots of unexpected things.
Monster Iestyn
Fangtastic
SpiritCrusher: Oh whoops, got carried away criticising the descriptions rather than the actual point of them. =S
As for the Gravity Garden concept room's problem though, I'm starting to think the problem is actually a bug with SRB2 itself involving anything that's supposed to move floors upwards. Might need to make a test map to be sure of this though.
EDIT: Nevermind that, appears to be a problem with the map itself. =V
EDIT: Nevermind that, appears to be a problem with the map itself. =V
Last edited:
742mph
My work is never done yet
First of all, I wasn't present when the newest version of the boss was discussed on IRC, so I don't know what people said about it. Second of all, I don't think I'm the collective opinion, but D00D was the only one I knew of at the time I said that who wanted to get rid of the boss completely. Third, I would counter some of the things you said, but that would probably lead to Mystic intervening again, and I'd rather not risk that. This argument basically ended 12 hours ago, and it seems like the boss is being scrapped. That's okay with me at this point, though, since I've started an alternate boss for SEZ that'll probably be sumbitted in a week if I get Whackjood's permission. (No, it is not an Egg Mobile, even by D00D's definition.)
I could go on for several more posts explaining just why your boss is an Egg Mobile edit and now it isn't very good. But I'm not even going to bother anymore. All you do is try and defend and fail at defending that your Egg Mobile is not an Egg Mobile, even though it clearly is. And as you can see, I'm not the only one that says this either. Right now, you're like the kid who keeps defending his red-colored Sonic "fancharacter" and saying he's a totally legitimate character.
The boss isn't even fun or an example of GOOD difficulty. It's a waiting game, as you avoid a bunch of different ammo types as he scampers around the arena until his shield goes down and he lets you hit him. That's all he does. He does nothing unique other than the types of things he shoots, and even then, he's completely unremarkable and an unfitting end for the final normal zone of the mod. There is nothing fun about this Egg Mobile edit.
You can go ahead and try to respond, but you're just gonna say the same shit you've been saying, and we're never going to get anywhere. You might as well not bother, because I probably shouldn't have either.
The boss isn't even fun or an example of GOOD difficulty. It's a waiting game, as you avoid a bunch of different ammo types as he scampers around the arena until his shield goes down and he lets you hit him. That's all he does. He does nothing unique other than the types of things he shoots, and even then, he's completely unremarkable and an unfitting end for the final normal zone of the mod. There is nothing fun about this Egg Mobile edit.
You can go ahead and try to respond, but you're just gonna say the same shit you've been saying, and we're never going to get anywhere. You might as well not bother, because I probably shouldn't have either.
742mph
My work is never done yet
Now I'm convinced you aren't even reading my posts anymore. Go back and throughly read what I said and you'll notice this:
Does that sound like I'm trying to convince anyone that my boss is better than they think it is? I think both of us realize at this point that we're not going to get the other to see things the way we do, so why don't I just accept that the boss isn't going to be used (which I have) and you accept that I don't think it's a piece of shit?
This discussion has become pointless and annoying. How about it stops right now?
- Status