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Old 05-19-2008   #21
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I don't bother with Collision scripts unless im making a 360 engine/game, I just use masks
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Old 05-19-2008   #22
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Game Maker also has poor resource management and in some cases actually has memory leaks (in object creation (!!)), which is really, really bad. As such, I do not recommend it. If you're going to use Game Maker to make a real basic 2D game with no special effects, I suggest you use version 5 instead, so that it can actually run on most computers. Game Maker 6 and up have horrible compatibility.
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Old 05-19-2008   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by light dasher
I don't bother with Collision scripts unless im making a 360 engine/game, I just use masks
Collision isn't the problem, how the player deals with them is :P

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Originally Posted by FoxBlitzz
Game Maker also has poor resource management and in some cases actually has memory leaks (in object creation (!!))
Garbage collector :P That's what all new scripting languages do, there's no delete function anymore, the memory leak happens, then every certain amount of time a garbage collector is run to get rid of it. Yep, that's how languages work these days.

Anyways, probably the strongest suggestion you'll hear will be the same as with fan characters: "don't do it". People seems to want to hate even the word "fan"...
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Old 05-19-2008   #24
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No, Sik, I'm referring to the fact that Game Maker loads every single image, sound, song, background, and miscellaneous resource into memory at the start of the game, resulting in horrendously long loading times for large games unless you set some of your resources to not preload. Even then, when they get loaded on call they're never removed from memory. And please, garbage collection? You have to be joking, because as far as I'm aware Game Maker has none. On my older 512MB RAM machine I couldn't play longer, large-media games written in Game Maker for more than ten minutes without the machine running out of physical RAM and causing performance decrease. You just have to unload your resources. That's just all there is to it.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the goal of a programmer is to avoid leaks, not just let them happen.
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Old 05-19-2008   #25
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Once I did a test and it turned out that Windows eats up all physical RAM always, and the conclusion is that it seems it loves the swap file. So honestly checking the available RAM isn't a good proof >_> But still, even if Game Maker does that, trust me, Sega engines do way worse, not for no reason they love slow down :P

Anyways, memory leak is memory that is lost and can never be recovered. Loading all resources isn't memory leak, it's just bad memory management. Loading a resource for then losing the pointer to it so it can't be accessed anymore by any means is a memory leak.

Honestly, all game makers suck :P You'll be always better programming. And using your own engines, because third-party engines often are way too advanced and take up a lot of resources unnecessarily too, and only work in high-performance computers (seriously, why the heck even the simper examples have to use shaders?). Take up some low-level libraries (like Allegro and SDL) that access hardware but don't try to do everything for you, and you'll be done.
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Old 05-19-2008   #26
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Actually, no. I actually saw a memory leak in a Game Maker game once. As more player objects were created and destroyed there was a steady increase in memory - from the base 100MB (!!) up to 150MB (!!!) before freezing entirely, after which memory usage began to skyrocket at 4MB consumption per second. For your information this game is Karoshi 2.0 and the "population" custom level will cause this after you play it six or seven times. Really, there's no excuse for this kind of problem. Add that to the fact that Game Maker never removes resources from memory and you have the worst management in a game engine ever.

As an FYI, don't simply pin blame on Windows - properly coded engines actually remove resources that are no longer needed. Click products have been able to do this from the start (yes, Klik & Play) - they do so upon map change. That's why I still consider MMF2 acceptable to use even though it has slow code interpretation and its software renderer isn't all that fast.

This is why I use C with the Allegro libraries now.
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Old 05-19-2008   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBlitzz
Actually, no. I actually saw a memory leak in a Game Maker game once. As more player objects were created and destroyed there was a steady increase in memory - from the base 100MB (!!) up to 150MB (!!!) before freezing entirely, after which memory usage began to skyrocket at 4MB consumption per second. For your information this game is Karoshi 2.0 and the "population" custom level will cause this after you play it six or seven times. Really, there's no excuse for this kind of problem. Add that to the fact that Game Maker never removes resources from memory and you have the worst management in a game engine ever.
If I'm not wrong, doesn't Game Maker make local variables available to all kind of objects, even if only one of them uses it? Not to mention they're variable type. In Visual Basic, such a variable takes up at least 133 bytes - yes, even to store a value that could fit perfectly in a single byte. Fixed types FTW :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBlitzz
As an FYI, don't simply pin blame on Windows - properly coded engines actually remove resources that are no longer needed. Click products have been able to do this from the start (yes, Klik & Play) - they do so upon map change. That's why I still consider MMF2 acceptable to use even though it has slow code interpretation and its software renderer isn't all that fast.
I never mentioned Windows. Moreover, several of those engines are cross-platform. And that isn't an excuse because those projects have dedicated code for each supported platform. They just want to offer everything the hardware can give, which is OK, but they do it at the expense of making it all always available, so even if you don't need them, the engine will be using them. And that slows down things a lot, not to mention the extra memory consumption and the lower hardware compatibility.

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Originally Posted by FoxBlitzz
This is why I use C with the Allegro libraries now.
New API or old API? Because both me and Tails92 stopped using Allegro due to the stupid API change.
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Old 05-20-2008   #28
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The surprising thing about this topic is that it's turned into a conversation about Clickteam products, and no-one has actually commented on the game yet.
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Old 05-20-2008   #29
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Good point, but there's really not that much to comment on...
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Old 05-20-2008   #30
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Like criticise it, in the way that you would criticise an SRB2 level. I have a beta with a whole new zone ready, but there's no point in releasing it until I know what to fix.
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Old 05-20-2008   #31
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Rocky road zone? DELICIOUS!
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Old 05-20-2008   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triangle Trumper
Like criticise it, in the way that you would criticise an SRB2 level. I have a beta with a whole new zone ready, but there's no point in releasing it until I know what to fix.
It looks like SRB1. What more do you want people to say? Even with Jamie's incredible scrolling hack, there really isn't that much you can do with Klik and Play that's really going to come close to a real Sonic game engine.
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Old 05-20-2008   #33
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Like I said, Mystic, Jamie's scrolling hack is terrible. I can do a much better job in far fewer lines of code. Seriously, he has the tendency to write way too complicated systems to do a menial task, and doesn't even manage it correctly.

Seriously, want proof? Here, grab the scrolling system I made:
http://chaos.foxmage.com/AkuKitsune/KNPScrolling.zip

Now open it in Klik & Play, and compare it to the scrolling system Jamie used in The Fast Revelation. I promise you that mine works better and uses far fewer lines of events.

More proof can be found in Sausage Roll Islands' palmtrees. They look more like they're dancing than passing above your head.
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Old 05-21-2008   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triangle Trumper
Like criticise it, in the way that you would criticise an SRB2 level. I have a beta with a whole new zone ready, but there's no point in releasing it until I know what to fix.
It looks like SRB1. What more do you want people to say? Even with Jamie's incredible scrolling hack, there really isn't that much you can do with Klik and Play that's really going to come close to a real Sonic game engine.
I want them to say stuff like:

-What's good about it
-What's bad about it
-Sound choice
-Graphic choice
-Sprite problems

etc, etc.
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Old 06-01-2008   #35
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Why cant you use Multimedia Fusion 2, or it's cheaper but less featured version, The Games Factory 2?

I use Multimedia Fusion 2 for my projects, and if you used MMF2 for yours, this could be a LOT better.
So yeah. It does look like a fangame that was made ages ago, though.
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Old 06-01-2008   #36
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The Doom engine was one of the best engines available when SRB2 was created, does this mean Sonic Slam 2 will be using Unreal Engine 3? Or maybe Crystal Space 3d, since it's free... =P
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