Tortured Planet v9 (scmrtf_TorturedPlanet-v9.wad)

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Now, as for AAZ1, I have completely removed all Crawlas, B.A.S.H.es, Buzzes, Detons, Green Snappers, Pointies, and Snailers (they are still in Act 2.) I have also slightly increased the presence of FaceStabbers and Egg Guards, and relocated a couple of enemies to better locations. I know that you'd want even more enemy removal, SC, but I'm going to divert my attention to other flaws in the level at the moment.

At the same time, I believe the first room looks better (still not that good, but no longer blackblackblack.) And I have started to construct a bit of the aforementioned sector scenery, too. The dead aliens and missiles don't look quite as good as I had hoped, but they do still add a bit of detail. I'm starting work on the UFOs, and I also just thought up a novel UFO-related gimmick that I might be able to use to replace a content-free section of the level. IMO, the most useless section of AAZ1 is the mishmash of cramped caves and acid pools between the slime-flooded castle and the circuitous button section (although the latter is pretty useless too), so I think that will be the section that gets replaced by the new gimmick.
 
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Fawfulfan said:
Now, as for AAZ1, I have completely removed all Crawlas, B.A.S.H.es, Buzzes, Detons, Green Snappers, Pointies, and Snailers (they are still in Act 2.)
Click to expand...
Great, now I can whine about the Skims and Jet Jaws instead! In all seriousness, I think that alone might help a lot.

Fawfulfan said:
I have also slightly increased the presence of FaceStabbers and Egg Guards, and relocated a couple of enemies to better locations. I know that you'd want even more enemy removal, SC, but I'm going to divert my attention to other flaws in the level at the moment.
Click to expand...
Well, an increased presence of those is fine, considering you need to replace some of those tons of removed enemies with something.

Fawfulfan said:
At the same time, I believe the first room looks better (still not that good, but no longer blackblackblack.)
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Have you replaced that god-awful NCEZW3 texture. It's horrid, I just forgot to mention it.

Fawfulfan said:
IMO, the most useless section of AAZ1 is the mishmash of cramped caves and acid pools between the slime-flooded castle and the circuitous button section (although the latter is pretty useless too), so I think that will be the section that gets replaced by the new gimmick.
Click to expand...
Agreed on that part, but what circuitous button section do you mean?
 
The part right after it, where you have to take a path that loops around and ends in a button that opens a door to another room.

By the "first room" I meant the room before the one you're thinking of. The room you're thinking of has also been improved, but not as much.

Also, it's kinda funny...I added in the NCEZW3 texture for the purpose of trying to improve variety. As a result, I definitely don't want to use the black cliff textures in its place. I'll search for a suitable replacement, and in the meantime, if anyone can suggest one...
 
Fawfulfan said:
The part right after it, where you have to take a path that loops around and ends in a button that opens a door to another room.
Click to expand...
If I am not mistaken, that part has at least some content. Hardly remarkable, but it's there.

Fawfulfan said:
Also, it's kinda funny...I added in the NCEZW3 texture for the purpose of trying to improve variety. As a result, I definitely don't want to use the black cliff textures in its place. I'll search for a suitable replacement, and in the meantime, if anyone can suggest one...
Click to expand...
Oh no please, don't replace it with the black cliff texture. I think you need to to majorly revamped the visual theme of the outside. I have no idea how, but an alien planet made out of black rock is not very engaging. It also doesn't go well with the castle at all. Essentially, outside areas for castles always boil down to mountains with forests. I don't know how to do it, but you could try to make some twisted alien version of such a forest.
 
I'm trying out MRN1T1.

Also, after some consideration, I've decided to keep the useless path as a Coop-only route. I can't think of a way to make the saucer gimmick work multiple times.
 
I shall now explain this fancy, elaborate gimmick I'm working on.

There's a circular paved section, next to a broken sign like the "EGG HARBOR" sign in DDZ1. But this one says "SHUTTLE TO LABOR CAMP". When you step on the circular pad, we see a Spacewalk-style cutscene in which a UFO swoops down and beams up the player. Then, the scene jumps to the character being inside the UFO, where he fights some enemies, goes through some hallways, and finds a control room, where he takes command and makes the UFO crash. There's some noise and alarms, a blinding flash, and then the character is poking their head out of the smashed, burning UFO, now in a completely different area.

And, yes, I already have all the necessary linedef executor configurations in my head.

UPDATE: Disregard my previous statement, I have found a way to make the gimmick smoothly operate multiple times. And that means that the hallway it's replacing will be totally deleted. I gotta say, there's something really satisfying about deleting the worst section of the worst act of the worst zone in Tortured Planet...I feel like the pack got noticeably better just by doing that. Still, AAZ1 has got a long way to go before it's decent, but the degree to which I managed to lessen the crappiness of Spacewalk Zone Act 1 gives me hope that AAZ1 has a chance too.

SON OF UPDATE: In addition to the new purpose to collecting emblems, I have also decided that there will be a purpose to collecting the Chaos Emeralds. If you collect all the emeralds before the end of Liftoff Gantry, you will have the option of skipping Spacewalk and Alien Armageddon. I won't say how, but some of you may be able to guess. I know it's not a tremendous perk, but it's better than there being absolutely no point to the emerald hunt.
 
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Liftoff Gantry
I am very disappointed that this level is an Egg Rock rip. The level feels more like an Egg Rock remix than its own level. Where the level isn't ripping from Egg Rock, it's boring.

Spacewalk Zone
I am equally disappointed that this is a copypaste job. I mean, optimizing it might make netgames easier, but the design is just uninteresting as it stands now.

Alien Armageddon
Fawfulfan, do you use OpenGL? There's a bunch of places here which are too dark for software.

I think I'm allergic to Act 2. It has hallways and extraneous deathpits.
 
BlueZero4 said:
Liftoff Gantry
I am very disappointed that this level is an Egg Rock rip. The level feels more like an Egg Rock remix than its own level. Where the level isn't ripping from Egg Rock, it's boring.

Spacewalk Zone
I am equally disappointed that this is a copypaste job. I mean, optimizing it might make netgames easier, but the design is just uninteresting as it stands now.

Alien Armageddon
Fawfulfan, do you use OpenGL? There's a bunch of places here which are too dark for software.

I think I'm allergic to Act 2. It has hallways and extraneous deathpits.
Click to expand...

I almost never use OpenGL, and absolutely never use it when testing levels.
 
Fume Shaft 2 is unplayable for me in Sonic and Knuckles' route, changing the pipe grates to a transparent flat rather than map geometry should help a lot.
 
Kim the Fox!!! said:
Fawfulfan, could you give me the list of the emblems in a document?
I have no internet, and I talk to you in a cybercafe. Here's my e-mail:
ikaro_neutron@hotmail.com
I can help you too putting the emblems in the Wiki.
Thanx for your help.
Click to expand...
It's really not worth the effort to tell you everything now, because some of the emblems have been moved to new places in v6.0. Besides, why can't you view the Wiki from your cybercafe? Several of the emblems' locations have already been documented. If you have e-mail, you should have internet too.

Zanyhead said:
Fume Shaft 2 is unplayable for me in Sonic and Knuckles' route, changing the pipe grates to a transparent flat rather than map geometry should help a lot.
Click to expand...

That may not be necessary, as lag has been reduced even further in the new version. That route has actually been completely redone, in a way that is less ugly, less repetitive, and less laggy. The reason the pipe grates are map geometry is because it's easier to translate it to all the pipes without much effort. If it was an FOF, it would have to be given a control sector for every instance of the pipe, since each pipe is a different height.
 
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Tortured ideas

Ok i played this level pack several times (for all versions): i write a review soon but now i point in what you should to do for the next version:

·Make longer Snowcap Nimbus act 2 (you have to add 2 0r 3 minutes more of gameplay)
·Improve the altarnate path in SNZ act 2 since both paths are unbalanced.
· Extend Gritty columns act 1, and add an altarnate route in the section where the rocks falls to give the chance to the player to avoid the rise up sand room.
· Why you don't get permision to use the Eggsubsand (also you could use it again in another zone) in GCZ act 3 since the eggslimer don't fit with the level
·Add more altarnate path in FSZ act 1
·Redone the sonic and knuckles route in FSZ act 2 since it's circular, empty, and boring.
·Replace the last part of fume shaft with a new room, since that part is a copy paste of another room.
·Add altarnate paths in LGZ (specially in act 2)
·Make longer and better the room added recently when you became small because it's really easy and boring.
·This is urgently IN SPACEWALK ZONE : REMOVE THOSE WHITE THINGS THAT MOVE UP AND DOWN YOU CONSIDER AN ENEMIE. THOSE THINGH'S DON'T FIT IN A SONIC GAME.
·Add more altarnate path to SWZ act 2
·Replace copy paste rooms in SWZ both acts
· You could use the Crawla Commander and the Pop Up Turret (those enemies fit with the ambience) in Spacewalk zone (although they are already used but they aren't overused, don't worry)
· You should put the spiked eggmobile in SWZ act 3 because it's really easy to beat.
·You have to overhaul Alien Armaggedon both acts (the unique parts that i really like are: the first section in act 1, and the dark-light room and 2D room in act 2).

For unlockables and emeral hunt:
·Why don't make a super sonic level? you could make one in which don't necessary you have to fight a boss. It could be like this: After beat eggman in SSZ, he furious active his ship chargued with TNT to crash in the alien planet and super sonic must to find it and turn OFF or an autodestruction a switch to prevent it hits in that tortured planet.
That level could star in the satarshodown, then (with teleporter go to the space, after a gameplay into the space go inside a ship (with a lot of death traps) and finally the switch, and after pressing it, sonic beat the level and eggman's plan to conquer the world fails again.

·You could put the old version of ECZ act 1 as unlockable also

·Also this is optional, but you could edit the emerald stages.

Also, probably a review comming soon...
 
SpiritCrusher said:
That would make the level five minutes long, thus much longer than anything up to Liftoff Gantry. So no, not really.
Click to expand...

yes but the act 2 of SNZ is much shorter than act 1, or at least he have to make it 1 minute long. I could beat SNZ act 2 in 1:43 and the act 1 in 3:55 when i played the version 5.3. I could see the difference, aldo DDZ is longer than SNZ, so it need to be longer, with two or three more room.

Also i don't like the texture variation in this level, except for the ground texture (and those beautiful pines) added in the new path split that appear after the v4.0.

Edit: i found a glitch in LGZ act 3 if you hit eggman before he stop move and star to shoot missiles the boss became invincible.
 
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I'm going to respond to each suggestion personally.

corrector said:
·Make longer Snowcap Nimbus act 2 (you have to add 2 0r 3 minutes more of gameplay)
Click to expand...
I have already made the level a bit longer. But no way am I adding 2 or 3 more minutes...as SpiritCrusher said, it would massively imbalance the levels, as they don't get that long until much later.

corrector said:
·Improve the altarnate path in SNZ act 2 since both paths are unbalanced.
Click to expand...
Kinda vague request, but I have made general improvements to the paths on that level, so I hope you're satisfied.

corrector said:
· Extend Gritty columns act 1, and add an altarnate route in the section where the rocks falls to give the chance to the player to avoid the rise up sand room.
Click to expand...
There's already an alternate route, but it's Coop only. That may have to wait for another version. However, I have indeed made the level slightly longer. Not much though; it was mostly about making it better, not longer.

corrector said:
· Why you don't get permision to use the Eggsubsand (also you could use it again in another zone) in GCZ act 3 since the eggslimer don't fit with the level
Click to expand...
Several people have suggested that. I am not going to use the Sand Sub. Though in a future version of SRB2, I will likely use a different one of the official bosses (one of the ones that isn't out yet).

corrector said:
·Add more altarnate path in FSZ act 1
Click to expand...
Hmmm...haven't done that, at least for now. FSZ1 did get some visual updates, though.

corrector said:
·Redone the sonic and knuckles route in FSZ act 2 since it's circular, empty, and boring.
Click to expand...
Already did that for the new version.

corrector said:
·Replace the last part of fume shaft with a new room, since that part is a copy paste of another room.
Click to expand...
I haven't yet done that, though that's something I hope to eventually do. But I have changed that room around a bit in other ways.

corrector said:
·Add altarnate paths in LGZ (specially in act 2)
Click to expand...
That's a great idea, but I likely won't get to it in this version, unfortunately.

corrector said:
·Make longer and better the room added recently when you became small because it's really easy and boring.
Click to expand...
You know, I might be able to do that...

corrector said:
·This is urgently IN SPACEWALK ZONE : REMOVE THOSE WHITE THINGS THAT MOVE UP AND DOWN YOU CONSIDER AN ENEMIE. THOSE THINGH'S DON'T FIT IN A SONIC GAME.
Click to expand...
The RBZ spikes are staying.

corrector said:
·Add more altarnate path to SWZ act 2
·Replace copy paste rooms in SWZ both acts
Click to expand...
Also good ideas, but I'm so involved in other stuff that that may not happen.


corrector said:
· You could use the Crawla Commander and the Pop Up Turret (those enemies fit with the ambience) in Spacewalk zone (although they are already used but they aren't overused, don't worry)
Click to expand...
Maybe, but I don't know...

corrector said:
· You should put the spiked eggmobile in SWZ act 3 because it's really easy to beat.
Click to expand...
Originally it had spikes, but that was TOO hard.

corrector said:
·You have to overhaul Alien Armaggedon both acts (the unique parts that i really like are: the first section in act 1, and the dark-light room and 2D room in act 2).
Click to expand...
I'm currently working on improving AAZ.

corrector said:
·Why don't make a super sonic level? you could make one in which don't necessary you have to fight a boss. It could be like this: After beat eggman in SSZ, he furious active his ship chargued with TNT to crash in the alien planet and super sonic must to find it and turn OFF or an autodestruction a switch to prevent it hits in that tortured planet.
That level could star in the satarshodown, then (with teleporter go to the space, after a gameplay into the space go inside a ship (with a lot of death traps) and finally the switch, and after pressing it, sonic beat the level and eggman's plan to conquer the world fails again.
Click to expand...
You know, for a guy named "corrector", you sure have terrible spelling.

Do you mean that I should add a NiGHTS level? Actually, there is going to be one...an improved version of Fire Flight Zone. But I don't think I can edit the storyline in that manner.

corrector said:
·You could put the old version of ECZ act 1 as unlockable also
Click to expand...
Why the heck would I do that? The original ECZ1 was terrible.

corrector said:
·Also this is optional, but you could edit the emerald stages.
Click to expand...
No plans to do that...but duly noted anyway.

*whew*

And as for LGZ3, I know about that, but I do not have the ability to fix it. It's a problem with SRB2, not Tortured Planet.
 
Fawfulfan said:
I'm going to respond to each suggestion personally.

I have already made the level a bit longer. But no way am I adding 2 or 3 more minutes...as SpiritCrusher said, it would massively imbalance the levels, as they don't get that long until much later.


Kinda vague request, but I have made general improvements to the paths on that level, so I hope you're satisfied.


There's already an alternate route, but it's Coop only. That may have to wait for another version. However, I have indeed made the level slightly longer. Not much though; it was mostly about making it better, not longer.


Several people have suggested that. I am not going to use the Sand Sub. Though in a future version of SRB2, I will likely use a different one of the official bosses (one of the ones that isn't out yet).


Hmmm...haven't done that, at least for now. FSZ1 did get some visual updates, though.


Already did that for the new version.


I haven't yet done that, though that's something I hope to eventually do. But I have changed that room around a bit in other ways.


That's a great idea, but I likely won't get to it in this version, unfortunately.


You know, I might be able to do that...


The RBZ spikes are staying.


Also good ideas, but I'm so involved in other stuff that that may not happen.



Maybe, but I don't know...


Originally it had spikes, but that was TOO hard.


I'm currently working on improving AAZ.


You know, for a guy named "corrector", you sure have terrible spelling.

Do you mean that I should add a NiGHTS level? Actually, there is going to be one...an improved version of Fire Flight Zone. But I don't think I can edit the storyline in that manner.


Why the heck would I do that? The original ECZ1 was terrible.


No plans to do that...but duly noted anyway.

*whew*

And as for LGZ3, I know about that, but I do not have the ability to fix it. It's a problem with SRB2, not Tortured Planet.
Click to expand...


Okay you don't have to make all i said for this version, but those things could improve a lot your level pack.


Please remove those RBZ spikes in spacewalk, they are horrible. I don't know if other people like those things.

Spacewalk zone is a long zone that has a good amount of gimnicks, but some areas feel empty.
Why don't try to test how the crawla commander and the pop up turret fit in SWZ, specially in the inside areas of act 2, to make it more interesting.

SWZ act 3 was too easy for me (i have to running only in circles to avoid eggman attacks and when his is near hit him several times), i suggest you to put again the spikes to the eggmobile, and if you think that is difficult make a little big the boss arena . Or at least much easier than act 1 and 2.

Okay you could consider foy v7.0 or 8.0 add altarnate routes for all levels, you are doing well the improvements for now. I have more ideas for future versions also but i will say you after you release v6.0 to not make you rush the project.

Fawfulfan said:
Why the heck would I do that? The original ECZ1 was terrible.
Click to expand...

For me the v3.0 of ECZ was better than THZ act 1, also better designed than AAZ. However the new one is better. But you could put that as an archive of a redone level.

I will be happy if you put a super sonic level in tortured planet. Those i said before was simply an idea. This level will be in version 6.0 on in a future version?

not much to say for now about suggestions, except that i think that the boss music is overused in all level packs and i prefer the main SRB2 boss music. Also i will advice you with the same thing that spiritcrusher said to you: you should improve the visual and make an effort to make a sector based on scenary.

As for my nick name, it's sarcastic hehe!

This mod has potential, in the future it could be in the hall of fame. It's well designed, although i didn't talk about the most beautiful and interesting parts that it has. Here's a review of it


SAZ: This zone is better than GFZ, it has good scenary and the textures are very pleasant. On another hand i don't like the music, for me it's overused in level packs. Also you could add more robo hoods.
Act 1: 8/10
Act 2: 8/10
Total: 8/10

ECZ: This zone, although is short, is well designed. I like the entrace to the factory and the ambiance. The miniboss in act 2 was cool, also i like the idea at the end of the act. You could make it a little longer since there's no much to improve here.
Act 1: 8.5/10
Act 2: 8.5/10
Total: 8.5/10

DDZ: In the past was one of the worst levels, but now it turns great. A good example of a city zone levels. I really enjoyed it. I only dislike some mazes and labirinths, but it's nothig super important for now. Also i like the gameplay of this zone, is long (specially act 2) and plenty with altarnate paths. This is an example of a good level.
Act 1: 8.5/10
Act 2: 9.5/10 The high rated level!
Total: 9/10 Great work here! This should be the 4º zone and SNZ the 3º zone.

SNZ: this levels looks good althogh some parts are better than others. this zone has some flaws. For example act 2 is much shorter than act 1. Some paths splits are unbalanced and some colors like the purple hurt my eyes.

Act 1: 8/10 This one is currently good. It needs some enemies in the 2D part.
Act 2: 5/10 Too short, and the paths split are unbalanced. The unique i like is the new route added recently.
Total: 6.5/10

GCZ: I think that the act 1 is average and decent but not great, and the act 2 is really interesting. The act 2 isn't great, i feel that it was linear at first and it's shorter and boring than SRB2's ACZ. It needs more sector based on scenary and altarnate routes. However the act 2 is great. I like the multiple altarnate routes, the textures, the gimnicks, and the ambience. Great work here!

Act 1: 6/10
Act 2: 9/10
Total: 7.5/10

FSZ: This zone has some innovative things. I don't see any mine theme zone, however it has multiple flaws. The first act is really linear. The act two has repetitive and some boring areas (fortunately you are redoing one of this). The bleech bouncer fits perfectly here. I think that you have to move the spiky eggmobile to GCZ and use here the eggslimer changing the boss arena, it fits more with the level theme.
Act 1: 6.5/10
Act 2: 7.5/10

LGZ: this zone is good, and the act 2 is a little long (i like interesting long levels). The unique problem with this zone is the linearity, it needs more altarnate routes. I like the gimmnicks, and i think that you have to make one gimmnick for the laser cannon interruptor like in ERZ. This level could be improved a lot if you want, but i think that is good for now.

Act 1: 8.5/10
Act 2: 8/10
Total: 8,25/10

SWZ: This was the worst level in the level pack, and now is decent. When you release the v1.0 i rate this level with 2/10 in my mind, it was poorly designed. Now it is improved a lot. You add new gimnicks well done, but there are areas that are empty, and i think it needs enemies that fit with the ambience. Also i hate copypaste rooms in the outside areas (fortunately now there are less than before). Also those robots that throw flames with their eyes are only decorative no?
Act 1: 6.5/10
Act 2: 5.5/10 It need more altarnate paths. Other thing: i like knuckles only path, althogh some parts are repetitive. Also you could keep knuckes emblem somewhere here.
Total: 6/10

AAZ: the worst level in the level pack. Bad colors texture+ bad design+ overused enemies that don't fit with the level+overused stairs+linearity+ repetitives hallways= Bad level
The unique parts that i like:
·Act 1: the first section, the castle entrace although is too square the plattforms here.
·Act 2: the light-dark maze and the 2D parts.

Act 1: 4/10
Act 2: 5/10
Total: 4.5/10

I rate higher the levels of this mod, because is hard to make all these levels in a few time. This mod has potential and could became better.


I hope that some of my comments could help you!
Good luck!
 
Spacewalk Zone 2 is a giant middle finger to OpenGL users who can barely see gravflipped springs, that and the whole zone is just bad. It's not too easy to get lost in for the concept, but I think it would be better if the outside areas were mostly space countdowns with the air pockets marking the routes to take, and the intact chunks of spaceship being breathable. The gravflip areas could also be better represented in some parts.
 
I figured out what I don't like about Snowcap Nimbus 1. I'm not sure if Snowcap Nimbus has these fixed or not because I haven't really payed attention to it.

Snowcap Nimbus 1
The level structure is the culprit of my dislike. This is your level flow:
Clouds -> Hallway -> Gimmick -> Hallway -> Clouds -> Hallway -> Clouds -> Hallway -> Repeat

The main problem with your structure is that it's boring. Whenever we finish with the obstacle in the room, we know there's gonna be a hallway waiting for us. And whenever we come out of a hallway, we know you've got some quaint obstacle set up between us and the next hallway. This is not how you want people to play your maps.

But also, the individual parts are boring. Here's a part-by-part breakdown.

Clouds
Clouds are good. I like clouds. The problem is how you're using them. If you need to make a platform between two other things, use a cloud. Your problem here is that you're using the clouds exclusively to form an obstacle. They're not woven in with anything else. You've made an entire obstacle-room out of clouds. You're making me jump on like 6 or so clouds in succession, and then you've called it "good" and moved on. I want real content.

Gimmick
Gimmicks are also great. You're just not incorporating them into your design. You end one hallway and put down a single, isolated gimmick to lead the player to the next hallway. It's just not incorporated into the design.

Hallway
I've actually revised my stance on the definition of "hallway." I went back and realized that my definition of a hallway actually included a lot of my own content, which didn't feel right because I'm proud of that content and have sentimental value for the parts that have bad design.

I now define hallway as "any corridor which exists due to the necessity of the design". In other words, the hallway is necessary because of the content around it. You need the player to travel from point O to point P, but the structure of the level is so complex that you can't possibly perform surgery on it without leaving a negative impact on the surrounding content. Alternatively, your nodebuilder goes kaput and you need something simple to go from points O and P without using too many linedefs. Either way, you're forced into making a hallway.

At this point I'm more questioning your design philosophy than the level itself, but tell me: Do you imagine your levels in your head with these long corridors of nothing? Are these stretches of empty running part of your dream level pack? Are these transition rooms your passion? I'm guessing not. What is your passion instead?

My goal, as I make my levels, is to fully realize the idea I have in my head. I make each room until I'm happy with it, and then I move on to the next room as quickly and effortlessly as I can. If I'm lucky, people don't notice the stitching and mistake my jumble of ideas as a cohesive level.

I propose that your hallways are a by-product of your design philosophy. You made a rough rush-job and have come back to flesh it out. Your hallways were a casualty of the original plan you made quickly, because you felt pressured to meet the deadline of--of what? Of college? Of people's expectations? Did you rush to give yourself a feeling of accomplishment?

Again: Quality > Quantity

Relax and enjoy mapping. Start small, and then craft what you have. Surprise yourself with how it comes out. Take a fascination with the details. You don't have to do this for every map, but try it for one map, even one room. If you don't like how it turns out, you can go back to your "schedule" of rushing maps out the door.

Granted, I have only two completed zones, so you might want to read my advice with a grain of salt.
 
@BlueZero4: yes, this level pack need to improve details, decorations, visuals, distribution. Also SNZ hasn't most of the boring hallways.

I found the most borings hallways in FSZ and AAZ, but i think that those corridors could be changed easily if the author get a good idea.
 
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