Tortured Planet v9 (scmrtf_TorturedPlanet-v9.wad)

SpiritCrusher said:

In other regards, I'm currently playing through, and I'm impressed at some points, disappointed at others. But I didn't expect you to fix everything at once, so all in all it's a great improvement. The first five zones are much better now, but the rest is still pretty much like it used to be. Long review coming later.

Click to expand...

Well, now I know which zones to devote extra time to in v4.0! However, first and foremost, I have plans to add a new alternate path in SNZ2, which features a freezing river. I may also add a couple new alternate paths to GCZ1; no matter how much I work on that level, I'm never satisfied with it because I'm always mentally comparing it to ACZ, which outstrips it in basically every regard and probably always will.

I'm going to focus a lot of energy on improving FSZ and SZ. I think that the way I've made Fume Shaft Zone, there's too many cave elements and not enough mining/technology elements. As for Spacewalk Zone, that's definitely still a work in progress. SZ2 has not been updated nearly as much as SZ1, and even SZ1 itself still needs serious work.

On a different note, remember how disappointed I was that the gears in Clockwork Towers Zone were stationary, after Blade said he was going to make them rotate? Well, get this: AAZ2 now has an alternate path (about two thirds of the way through the level), which features identical gears that actually DO rotate! You might want to check it out.

fawfulfan said:

On a different note, remember how disappointed I was that the gears in Clockwork Towers Zone were stationary, after Blade said he was going to make them rotate? Well, get this: AAZ2 now has an alternate path (about two thirds of the way through the level), which features identical gears that actually DO rotate! You might want to check it out.

Click to expand...

ahahahahahahahahahaha oh wow

But seriously, you obviously haven't played it enough in that case. Have you found the Grenade panel? That's where they are, and there's even one in each base!

Anyways, I'm with SpiritCrusher on that not all zones have been improved, but the first few obviously have. And I'll probably drop a long review later on, hopefully.

fawfulfan said:

WHowever, first and foremost, I have plans to add a new alternate path in SNZ2, which features a freezing river.

Click to expand...

Just a short thing regarding SNZ: The rope pulley section at the beginning of Act 1 is still skippable. Get creative with them, otherwise they're just a fake gimmick.

Spherallic said:

But seriously, you obviously haven't played it enough in that case. Have you found the Grenade panel? That's where they are, and there's even one in each base!

Click to expand...

There WERE rotating gears there? *facepalm*

[joke]For the record, I blame the confusing, mazelike structure of that level.[/joke]

EDIT: I just checked CTZ again, and found the spinning gears. If I may say so myself, I think the ones in AAZ are better; the spinning is much smoother-looking, and the surface of the gear is a circular conveyor belt, so if you're standing on it you spin with the gear. But I do take back everything I said about there being no spinning gears in CTZ.

SpiritCrusher said:

Just a short thing regarding SNZ: The rope pulley section at the beginning of Act 1 is still skippable. Get creative with them, otherwise they're just a fake gimmick.

Click to expand...

Well, to begin with, I'll increase the length of the pulleys, so that Sonic can't jump that far. Then, I guess I'll add floating obstacles along the way. Come to think of it, I might also add a 2D rope hang section in SNZ1, to complement the 2D PolyObject cable car in SNZ2.

Yes, we were quite nearing the deadline, so we quickly submitted it. After that, we found out we didn't apply conveyor belts to the surfaces.
Also, why did you choose the exact same textures for the gears? It makes it seem a little bit ripped off, honestly (and I'm not basing this on my opinion solely).

[joke]Also, I find it hilarious that you blame your failure on my map.[/joke]

Spherallic said:

Also, why did you choose the exact same textures for the gears? It makes it seem a little bit ripped off, honestly (and I'm not basing this on my opinion solely).

Click to expand...

I know, it was an uncreative and derivative choice. The thing was that those were by far the best textures to use for the sides of the rotating gears, and as for the flats, it's extremely hard to find a texture suitable for a rotating surface which is also dark gray or black. In the end, I decided on your same textures because I couldn't think of anything better. I might change that later.

Spherallic said:

Also, I find it hilarious that you blame your failure on my map.

Click to expand...

I was joking, you know.

You made your point about the chains and water, so I'll let it go. But there are two other issues I'd like to address. Both regarding Blue Springs...

Alien Armageddon Act 1 has a slime pool where the blue springs are supposed to save you if you fall in. Everytime I fell in, I would hit the spring and just before I hit the surface, I die. The Blue Spring kinda fails to be your life saver in slime pools because you lose momentum quickly, thus leading to said death.

Secondly, Act 2 has a line of blue springs place before a small 'bridge' like path that you can walk under (this is somewhere after the submerged library section). If you're moving too fast when you hit the spring, you'll get stuck between the bottom of the 'bridge' and the blue spring trying to send you up. The only way I've escaped this is by getting damaged by the enemies... May I suggest removing these springs?

metalsonicmk72 said:

Alien Armageddon Act 1 has a slime pool where the blue springs are supposed to save you if you fall in. Everytime I fell in, I would hit the spring and just before I hit the surface, I die. The Blue Spring kinda fails to be your life saver in slime pools because you lose momentum quickly, thus leading to said death.

Click to expand...

Hmmm...I'll have to give some thought to how I might work on that problem. But you might want to consider that it is the last Zone, so things shouldn't be too easy in it.

metalsonicmk72 said:

Secondly, Act 2 has a line of blue springs place before a small 'bridge' like path that you can walk under (this is somewhere after the submerged library section). If you're moving too fast when you hit the spring, you'll get stuck between the bottom of the 'bridge' and the blue spring trying to send you up. The only way I've escaped this is by getting damaged by the enemies... May I suggest removing these springs?

Click to expand...

The springs aren't going to be removed...but what I DID do is create a barrier directly after them, stretching up to the bridge. This way, you can't get stuck.

Sorry, but Spacewalk is so ducking horrible and tedious that I lost all nerve about midway and quit. It's simply so repetitive, ugly and useless that I won't bother about it. You don't get a review for this stage for me, either you transform it into something completely different or you scrap it.

I hear you...it's a bad level. I'm just not willing to completely scrap it, because I'm going to work as hard as I can to transform it into something less sucky. And I firmly believe that the new version of SZ is an improvement...it's just that the both the original and the new versions are so horrible that it's hard to focus on what isn't as bad.

Over time, I hope to transform the outside areas so that they are genuinely unique. I am also trying to add more texture variation. The problem is that FSZ and LGZ have both already used ERZ textures, and I'm reluctant to include them in a third consecutive zone. Or is that problem small potatoes compared to how ugly the level will be if I don't use them?

Of course, it won't just be about textures; I'll also need to make the space junk less ugly. That shouldn't really be too hard; among other things, I might try creating new kinds of satellites and less ugly kinds of broken pipes.

One thing I have already done is to add far more secrets and alternate paths into Spacewalk Zone, though many of the secrets are found in the outside areas, so it gets repetitive, and most of the alternate paths lack any novel gimmicks, so they are pretty pointless now. I'll attempt to work on that.

And I also suppose that I'm not using the gravity flips very creatively, either. I should probably try making more complex gravity gimmicks, but I'll have to make sure they aren't irritating.

I probably can't do all of these in one go, but you should expect at least some of these improvements to happen in v4.0. You may probably will still not like SZ, but I think you will have to admit that there will be some level of improvement.

Hey, this is exactly what I wanted to hear from you, so I might as well give a few tips on what to do:

First of all, the visuals are not as problematic as the gameplay. All the space junk sections consist of basic platforming, and this zone doesn't really have all that many unique gimmicks that don't involve jumping from platform to platform. This is what makes the zone the most frustrating (even though it gets a total bore as Tails as well, because I can fly beyond everything).

The visuals have been drastically improved, I'll give you that. But all the textures used here have been seen in either Eruption Conduit, Fume Shaft or Liftoff Gantry. It simply looks boring. That's actually a slight problem in Fume Shaft as well, the factory elements don't feel fresh after a zones that already used them. It's generally a problem that whenever you themes deviate from the standard, they look either ugly or boring. I think Alien Armageddon should be a standard castle level and Fume Shaft should stay completely cave-y. You can implement technology elements without using THZ texturing, look at that age-old Flooded Mine level Boinciel made.

But the whole point of FSZ is that it is a dumping site for chemicals, just like THZ. Nevertheless, I'll try to focus more on wood and cave elements in there...I was going to do that anyway.

As for Spacewalk Zone, it's good to know that I should focus more on gameplay this time around. Not that I won't also work on the visuals a bit more, too; I think that Spacewalk Zone needs more than one kind of satellite, as I have already said.

As for the gameplay in Spacewalk Zone, I am trying to think of new ideas for alternate gimmicks. I've already got the invincibility machine, the flipping water pool, and the intermittent-gravity-switcher I ripped off from ERZ. From comments I've seen, these gimmicks aren't enough to break up the monotony of the basic platforming (and some of them seem to be annoying in their own right). So I'm just going to bounce some of my brain goo off the wall here:

*More creative uses for crushers (but I can't go overboard with this, or it'll be a boring retread of GCZ2)

*A space station or two which you can actually go inside, and will have complex control boards and stuff in the interior.

*Upside-down conveyor belts in reverse gravity.

*Sliding PolyObject doors leading into new areas (perhaps they would only open with the use of a switch)

*Another, more complex use of the shrinking character trick in LGZ (would this be too retread-y?) Maybe this time I could actually make the player LARGER.

*A character-specific path split, reminiscent of FSZ, but this time it would be between a Sonic and Tails only path and a Knuckles only path.

*A machine that, when you press a button, beeps a few times in warning, and then opens a bay door and blasts you out into space. But it would be handled differently than in LGZ2; this time, you would WANT to be pulled out into space.

*A new, high-tech rope hang device.

*A 2D section which is heavy on gravity flips.

*A sector-based enemy which moves up and down, pulses, and damages you on touch (I'm already thinking about how I would do this).

Tell me what you think of these ideas, and let me know if you have any of your own.

fawfulfan said:

But the whole point of FSZ is that it is a dumping site for chemicals, just like THZ. Nevertheless, I'll try to focus more on wood and cave elements in there...I was going to do that anyway.

Click to expand...

What I basically means is that the rooms themselves should stay mine-textured. You can have machines in there without using THZ textures on the wall, as you have done in a few cases.

fawfulfan said:

I've already got the invincibility machine, the flipping water pool, and the intermittent-gravity-switcher I ripped off from ERZ.

Click to expand...

The problem is that the flipping water pool isn't even enjoyable, because it is basically platforming with gravflips every now and then. The invincibility machine is a cool idea, but I think you can do some complicated things with it.

Regarding your ideas, most of them sounds interesting, but the gravflip-heavy 2D section doesn't. This pack already has a lot of 2D sections, and while most of them are good, you have to draw a line somewhere.

Well, a gravflip-heavy 2D section would be a lot of effort...and as you say, I already have a lot of 2D sections, especially since I'm already adding a new one to SNZ1. I'll bag that one...but I'm going to seriously explore the other ideas.

Could you please reduce the lag in the second purple slime room in FSZ1 and the green slime part in FSZ2????

You do realize that I have already done that. I don't know how much more I can reduce the lag without significantly reducing the contents of the room.

This will become my uber-long review post, and I'll add in reviews for more zones as I make them. Spoiler tags so you don't get a heart attack, because they are very long.

Said review was moved to a more recent spot.

SpiritCrusher said:

Also, whar iz mah palmtree hopping sequence?

Click to expand...

Would that I could, SpiritCrusher. Those palmtrees are so complex and taxing to the renderer that they can cause unexpected, terrible HOMs if they aren't placed in exactly the right locations, particularly in SAZ2. That is partially why the ending of SAZ2 feels so empty; originally it had more content, but I had to erase some of it to clear up the HOMs. I'd rather my level be kind of plain than glitch up horribly.

Then fix ur unclosed sectors kthx. Seriously, I think the framerate could be drastically improved by just merging more sectors of separate trees at the same height and fixing the aforementioned unclosed sectors.

SpiritCrusher said:

Then fix ur unclosed sectors kthx. Seriously, I think the framerate could be drastically improved by just merging more sectors of separate trees at the same height and fixing the aforementioned unclosed sectors.

Click to expand...

From my experience, sector merging helps reduce the file size of a level, but does absolutely nothing for the framerate unless said sectors are all bordering each other.

Also, I have checked for unclosed sectors. There are indeed one or two of them, but I'm pretty sure the real cause of the HOMs is the openness of the rooms. I'll see if I can reduce problems by fixing them, though.