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Old 05-15-2017   #5681
SamVision
 
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Default Some ideas and concerns

Ever since I first played SRB2 12 years ago some things have consistently bothered me.

One is the huge trail that appears when you spindash. It’s too big and visually obstructive, I would prefer afterimages instead or nothing at all.

Another thing is the checkpoints. They are too small, if the checkpoints were more like SA1 it would be much better. I don’t think it’s very hard to implement I’ve seen it done in some maps.

Sonic feels very underpowered especially in the later levels. He needs an additional ability, such as running on water without speed shoes, or being able to thok under any condition once, or maybe having the light dash which could make for exclusive routes. As fast as he is and even with the potential of Super Sonic, he feels limiting to play as in more ways than one.

The lack of a drop-shadow can get very frustrating later on. This is another thing I’ve seen done before so I am certain it is possible.


The following I posted on a Discord discussion but I thought I'd post them here as well.

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I was thinking of replacing Dark City Zone with an ice level inspired by Superman's Fortress of Solitude.

The first act would be climbing out of Red Volcano Zone and making your way toward the fortress, which can be seen in the distance thanks to skyboxes.

The early areas of the first act would begin with leaving red volcano zone, it would take place underground. You would leave behind the fire and lava gradually. At some point there would only be earth and rock. A little bit later you would see an opening and emerge surrounded by a snowy area with the fortress visible from a distance.

For Grand Eggship Zone, I just thought of replacing it with a more fleshed out and polished version of Aerial Garden Zone as a sort of homage to Sky Sanctuary.
I apologize if any of this has been discussed before or if I was out of line with anything in this post. I've been a big fan of SRB2 for a long time but only recently I sought to get involved in the community.
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Old 05-15-2017   #5682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamVision View Post
Ever since I first played SRB2 12 years ago some things have consistently bothered me.

One is the huge trail that appears when you spindash. It’s too big and visually obstructive, I would prefer afterimages instead or nothing at all.

Another thing is the checkpoints. They are too small, if the checkpoints were more like SA1 it would be much better. I don’t think it’s very hard to implement I’ve seen it done in some maps.

Sonic feels very underpowered especially in the later levels. He needs an additional ability, such as running on water without speed shoes, or being able to thok under any condition once, or maybe having the light dash which could make for exclusive routes. As fast as he is and even with the potential of Super Sonic, he feels limiting to play as in more ways than one.

The lack of a drop-shadow can get very frustrating later on. This is another thing I’ve seen done before so I am certain it is possible.
Some of these are being addressed for 2.2. Spin trails are being removed AFAIK (for the default characters anyway), and I saw screenshots of player shadows in development somewhere.

As for Sonic's balance, most would argue that he's pretty fine the way he is. In fact, he's the character that must take advantage of the level design, instead of skipping over it like Tails and Knuckles do. In the case of a race he would probably lose out to Tails in some of the later levels, depending on the skill of the player—but I'd say he's far from underpowered. In every other gamemode he's considered the best character, and certainly the most exciting and rewarding in all game modes (at least in my opinion). The abilities you suggested wouldn't even help, anyway—especially running on water, which is useless in RVZ and ERZ, and hardly useful at all in the previous zones.

Still, none of this invalidates the suggestion, though I believe it has already been said (correct me if I'm wrong anyone?) that Sonic is receiving no gameplay changes.

Last edited by Lach; 05-15-2017 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 05-15-2017   #5683
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As for Sonic's balance, most would argue that he's pretty fine the way he is. In fact, he's the character that must take advantage of the level design, instead of skipping over it like Tails and Knuckles do. In the case of a race he would probably lose out to Tails in some of the later levels, depending on the skill of the player—but I'd say he's far from underpowered. In every other gamemode he's considered the best character, and certainly the most exciting and rewarding in all game modes (at least in my opinion). The abilities you suggested wouldn't even help, anyway—especially running on water, which is useless in RVZ and ERZ, and hardly useful at all in the previous zones.

Still, none of this invalidates the suggestion, though I believe it has already been said (correct me if I'm wrong anyone?) that Sonic is receiving no gameplay changes.
Okay I understand. But how about something a bit more subtle. In SA1 after you let go of a spindash, you can press the action button again to make Sonic start running. This way you never lost speed. Making the spindash work exactly like SA1 in SRB2 is not a good idea, but giving Sonic the ability to uncurl from a spindash would flow well with his speed focused gameplay.

In addition, how about giving Sonic the FSonic's ability to go past top speed after running uninterrupted for a bit. I am not confident in this suggestion, but it's an idea to play with.
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Old 05-15-2017   #5684
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Sonic's difficulty is probably going to be partially addressed by the inclusion of slopes, which will give him new ways to use momentum as a height advantage.
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Old 05-15-2017   #5685
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I think allowing the player to uncurl from a spin is a bad idea, regardless of if it were implemented better than SA1. Rolling in the classics was always meant to be a bit of a commitment; lose speed when going up hills and less control over your character, but in return you gain extra speed when going down slopes and you can damage enemies. Not to mention, jump + thok is a pretty nice way to uncurl and keep your momentum.

Spindash is a lot more useless in 2.1 as it lacks slopes (what makes rolling an appealing option in the first place), but as Cobalt also mentioned, 2.2 uses them pretty extensively :p
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Old 05-15-2017   #5686
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To add to what's been said: lightdash was implemented a long time ago as part of Adventure mode. It was buggy, annoying, and the ring paths it used couldn't respawn in multiplayer, making the path one-use. Add that there's no way to block off the entrance to non-Sonic characters, and it's a pretty poor addition to the game to the point that unlike the Homing Attack - which was also made at the same time and still exists for modders to use - we completely wiped all traces of lightdash from the code.
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Old 05-15-2017   #5687
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Alright, I know that this is a branch off of someone elses suggestion to add Top Down to the game, but it is a far bit separated from it.

Essentially, give the option to allow for map packs to toggle a line in the MAINCFG or something in order to enable Multiplayer Emblems. This is similar to how Chaos Coins functioned in Top Down, so you might instinctively want to avoid this, but at the same time, you have mods like Sugoi and Subarashii that use the collection of Emblems to measure in-game progress, and losing your progress just because the server needs to be rebooted is a gigantic pain.

Or maybe just make it a server option and skip the maincfg definition. Then you could do it with older packs, too.
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Old 05-15-2017   #5688
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Would it be possible to allow 2P save files?
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Old 05-15-2017   #5689
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Originally Posted by toaster View Post
To add to what's been said: lightdash was implemented a long time ago as part of Adventure mode. It was buggy, annoying, and the ring paths it used couldn't respawn in multiplayer, making the path one-use. Add that there's no way to block off the entrance to non-Sonic characters, and it's a pretty poor addition to the game to the point that unlike the Homing Attack - which was also made at the same time and still exists for modders to use - we completely wiped all traces of lightdash from the code.
I always found light dash useful for collecting rings in any 3D Sonic game, but if it must be removed that is fine.

Also I want to add the suggestion for the option for whether or not you want the Super Sonic music to play.
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Old 05-15-2017   #5690
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That exists per-map as a level option, but not game-wide.
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Old 05-15-2017   #5691
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Well it's just that skilled players can maintain Super Sonic for extended periods of time, especially in older Sonic games. Hearing the short therefore repetitive Super Sonic theme over and over again will get annoying. In Sonic 3 Complete there is an option to play the fast version of the Zone themes instead of the default super/invincibility theme, but I'd settle for just the normal Zone theme. Still, the option would be appreciated.
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Old 05-15-2017   #5692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamVision View Post
Well it's just that skilled players can maintain Super Sonic for extended periods of time, especially in older Sonic games. Hearing the short therefore repetitive Super Sonic theme over and over again will get annoying.
I can fix that
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Old 05-18-2017   #5693
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Any chance we could get some sort of custom FOF flag to render the sides of a sides-only FOF that's abutting a sector wall? Right now, the game either just renders the wall texture, or it displays the sky if FF_RENDERSIDES and FF_CUTSOLIDS are set. Doesn't seem achievable right now, but it'd be super useful for decorative texturing.
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Old 05-22-2017   #5694
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is Software renderer going to get updated anytime in the future ? would be nice to see it support .png textures, sure it won't have 32bit colors but it would at least be less pixelated, depending on how this thing is implemented, ZDoom allows png textures on both renderers and the difference is very little, what's ZDoom doing right that SRB2 isn't.

* OpenGL Screenshot
* Software Screenshot
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Old 05-22-2017   #5695
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PNG graphics is a very slight maybe at this point, from some recent developments. Don't start waiting for it, and don't expect to get any additional features that the current texture system doesn't have outside of convenience.

Also be aware that ZDoom is going for a very different goal than SRB2 is. ZDoom and other source ports are modding-focused because the game they're working on was finished 25 years ago. We're making a game first and foremost, and time spent working on modding features is time spent not working on the game itself. We're usually prioritized on the game, unless a modding feature would also benefit us.

(And in case anyone wasn't aware yet, we can't just lift features from ZDoom due to a number of codebase differences, such as language. For instance, the only ZDoom code I was able to use for slopes was the C backups for span rendering, with a lot of backporting to C; everything else was rewritten or borrowed from Eternity.)
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Old 05-22-2017   #5696
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Oh you got me wrong, I wasn't asking for a feature to be borrowed from ZDoom and put into the code, I was asking for if it's possible to have something similar to it, But it's okay I guess if you don't have plans to support modding yet.
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Old 05-22-2017   #5697
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Could it be possible to have server descriptions viewable ingame to give more info before anyone joins the game?

I.e.

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ServerName: Steves Silly Server

ServerDescription: Welcome to my server! We typically play coop,
Tag and ctf!
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Old 05-24-2017   #5698
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Oh! And possibly make it so you can change a secondary color in addition to the primary, like that one lua mod. Adds a lot more variety in distinguishing players.
The other question from this post got an answer but I never got one for this question.
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Old 05-24-2017   #5699
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Secondary colors is an idea that's been tossed around before in development, but I forget offhand why we haven't implemented it. Though that said, it'd probably require you to set two ranges of colors to remap to other colors. That might be a tricky thing for character makers to sort out, potentially.
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Old 05-24-2017   #5700
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I still don't quite get the purpose. The only place you'd even get a benefit is CTF, and considering the size of the secondary features you'd be changing, it'd be really hard to tell based on the sprite who is who anyways. We show names when you point the crosshair at people nowadays, too, which is way more effective than changing Sonic's shoe color or whatever would be.
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