July/August 2010 Contest Voting

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As previously stated, you might want a new mushroom texture and lilypad texture
I still don't know why. Both seem to fit just fine for me.

There were a few minor issues, most notable being that one area required the use of a spring-shell or a hidden spring to continue as Sonic. I have no issue with them unlocking an alternate route, but if the player can't use them, he should be able to continue on without turning around.
He can. Just take the spring. I agree it's not an elegant solution, but there is a way to continue if you screw up.

The main issue with the level however, and the reason why it doesn't get a higher score is that the two paths are extremely different. One is an enjoyable JCZ-esque stretch with a few creative gimmicks while the other is a bunch of lilypads over a stretch of water. When you put the two in the same level the latter really feels uninspired.
Did we... uhm... play the same level? In my copy of it, the right path contained none of those "creative gimmicks" you mentioned, expect for that one mushroom, which of course is used a lot more on the other path. And while the left path did have some lilypads, it didn't exclusively consist of that. It also had the aforementioned mushrooms as well as a section where you had to jump over tree trunks. So, I agree the paths are very different, but a. I think that's a good thing, and b. they're not different in the way you described them. If anything, the problem is that the other path is lacking.
 
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I'm inclined to consider the picture on the right a more creative design. While jumping on lilypads and trunks is good and all in moderation, its still just jumping on platforms over a body of something. Personally, I've played far too many levels which were 100% jumping on platforms over a body of something for me to consider it the superior design. Also, there are mushrooms on both paths. On the right path, its just at the end of that room depicted.

I know this may just be me, its also the reason why I'm the only dev that really hates RVZ1. Regardless, there are other matters to take into account as well. The right path has almost too much detail and the left path has almost none. The right path can be backtracked and the left path cannot. Its as if the left path was part of an older level that was just crammed in there.

--

Also I'd given my reasoning for nitpicking (and yes, it IS nitpicking) the lilypad and mushroom textures. In the former case, the texture of the seaweed (as in the actual perceived texture) is at odds with the appearance you'd expect from a lilypad, and in the latter case the mushroom is just too grainy to fit with the rest of the level.
 
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I'm inclined to consider the picture on the right a more creative design. While jumping on lilypads and trunks is good and all in moderation, its still just jumping on platforms over a body of something. Personally, I've played far too many levels which were 100% jumping on platforms over a body of something for me to consider it the superior design.
I'd still rather jump instead of doing nothing, like in the right picture.

Also, there are mushrooms on both paths. On the right path, its just at the end of that room depicted.
That's what I said.

Its as if the left path was part of an older level that was just crammed in there.
Isn't that actually the case? Still, the fact that both paths are so different makes them both unique. I'd rather not change that.
 
I just ran through both rooms, cleared the lilypad one in four jumps (no, I didn't hit every lilypad), the other one in five (one of them was an unnecessary leap to a ledge on the side). It is possible to get the player to jump without forcing him to simply leapfrog over platforms repeatedly. Lava Reef is an example of a level that really suffers for the latter problem.

That said, I know the platforming on the left path is more involved, but its also more repetitive... and its not THAT much of a difference. The right path just feels more solid. Besides, not counting the required jumps, there's plenty along the side of the right path to see that involves MORE platforming, whereas on the side of the left path there's really only one thing worth your attention.
 
Maybe a solution would be to mix the elements of these two paths in different ways. If we're just looking at the separate rooms in the level, I'd consider none of them weak on their own. It's just the way that they're mixed that makes the left path more repetitive. But then again, if we mixed these two paths, we'd lose the choice that the player makes when choosing either path. In the left path, he chooses platforming over visuals, and in the right path, he chooses visuals over platforming. I just think the level would lose some of its diversity if both paths contained a bit of both.
 
OKAY SO IM BACK AGAIN​

I know I missed out on last time, but I'm back to remind you that your levels suck. A lot. As per usual in the OLDC. I'll probably only do SP and possibly Race this time though, so don't be too fond of it (if you ever were), despite some lows and even a Zero possibly needing to be thrown around.

SO OKAY SINGLE PLAYER​

Golden Palace INCONCEIVABLE FACESTABBER TANGO ZONE : 2/10

The second I start the level, I am introduced to several flashing lights and a giant dollar sign on the building. Immedietly, I thought this was going to be a casino-type level, but noticed the lack of music. So as I walk through the garden, picking up the easy powerups and killing all the Facestabbers, I push the button and wait for the door to open. As I wait for the door, I start thinking to myself "Why the heck am I waiting for something in a Sonic game? This totally breaks the flow.", but I thought this coulpled witht he music was supposed to bring some kind of tension to the level or something, so I walked through and continued.

All of this "tension" (or attempt at it) was broken completely by the gawdy textures. However, the music STILL wasn't there. So I just waltzed through the hallway, killing MORE Facestabbers and laughing at how useless RoboHood is, went though the checkpoint, and HIT started playing. I immedietly thought who would think this would fit for a prolonged stroll though a casino, only to realised that this level wasn't EVEN a casino! It was just gawdy "gold" textures mixed with some grey metal ones. It all just turns into one golden smudge after awhile, and the music certainly did not help, nor did the obnoxious SFX or the totall half-assing of incorperating SX8k's lame graphical "upgrade" and not evne bothering to change the damn HUD words. A lot of texture choices didn't evne make sence with the "theme", like suddenly having the floor graphics, which look just like the wall texture, be a SLIPPERY surface, or... THIS thing.

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I... Have no idea.

Troughout the level, I wasconstantly stopped by pointless gimmicks that did nothing but slow the game down and break the flow into pieces, like the button puzzle. And there's barely any platforming to speak of, as well as making the rather awful decisions, like locking rings and monitors into a place you can't reach (and thus, no perfect bonus) and putting RANDOM monitors of all things into your level. And once again, someone thinks simply taking the boss and giving it the spikeballs automatically makes it original and sould be used as the boss. At least I tried SOCcing the boss (granted, I used spikeballs too, but realised they were stupid and took em out in future versions). And the music COMPLETELY clashes with the previous tune. I don't care if it's a Dynamite Heady reference, it STILL does not fit.

Oh, and let's not forget ALL THOSE FACESTABBERS. It's like you had no idea how tomake this place castle-y, so you used all the castle enemies, but made 80% of them Facestabbers. All they needed was KO's comedic Backdash soc and this place would just be downright silly.

This level was a giant chore to go through, and I just didn't have fun at all. It tries to be good with all the extra details (and the HUGE size), but falls flat. Sorry, no A for Effort from me.

Emerald Lake INSURMOUNTABLE WAIST HIGH FENCE ZONE: 2/10

Now, there once was a time where a chest-high wall could toally block all progress. Mostly apparent in Doom, where despite being able to run 80 miles per hour while holding a giant gun and various other equipment, Doomguy couldn't grasp the concept of jumping untill source ports gave him pogo stick legs. However, once Doomguy researched the concept of "step on bigger ledge", Doom and Doom II suddenly felt more open, and free. Sure, it broke gameplay, but by removing all of these railroads, it added a new feel to the game and suddenly all of those short walls were exclimations saying "ALTERNATIVE ROUTE HERE" and gave the games rather unexpected replay value.

Then with mods to the source like SRB2, this make the open running and jumping concept in a Doom 3D Enviroment into the focus, and with all of these invisible walls, it really feels like the original DOS was possed off at your defiance of gravity and took revenge by making every fence suddenly be capable of touching the heavens, teasing you and often making you think that the top of that cliff is a safe place to land, only to smack your face on the wall and slide down the constant Fawx-Hill-Top wall and into the dark, murky and just plain ugly waters below.

This kind of teasing feels like a major restriction. Hell, even in the original Doom games, John Romero made one of his personal rules that if the player can SEE it, they should be able to GO there. Same problem with that Azure Lake map awhile back, where everyone flooded to the hills but ended up face to face with Mr. Invisodickweed. It just feels like a rather hard punch in the groin, thrusting us back into the days of unclimbable ant hills. I mean, what's next; forcing the player into first person and taking away our ability to use the mouse and looking Up & Down?

And if you WANT to show the evniorment without letting the player pass, there sould be some goddamn SENSE behind it, like glass (and being obvious it's glass) or something if it's obviously not a place you can go. Can't make it work for the level? Then DONT USE INVISIBLE WALLS. I'd rather have a sky touching wall then a ledge that seems like I can walk on but shoves me off with some invisible forceshield that might as well have a voice saying "PISS OFF" as you get pushed away.

As for the other flaws in this level, they've mainly already been touched on (ugly water, bland gameplay), but I must say that those Motobugs are really hard to look at and don't add anything to gameplay from what I noticed. And GODDAMN am I sick and tired of Jade Valley's theme. SICK of it. It's an otherwise just below average level with a fault SO GLARING that it makes it much worse than it probably was without it.

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Despite his rebel, Knuckles still can't get over this. Somehow.

Lava Reef Zone: 2/10

I'll do this later. I can only do so much typing in one run without cramps/boredom.
Okay, so basically, all I can say is that the map pretty much copies everything lava levels are about... except for the FUN. Where are the gimmicks? Aside from those crushers (which I got past as CREAM, not Sonic), I don't remember anything. I can't even be arsed to take a picture because ITS THE SAME AS ANY BAD VOLCANO LEVEL. I can't even complain talk about it because there's nothing to talk about!

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Instead, take this image of Toon Link holding Mr. Sandbag hostage on a giant gun.

Aqua Relic 5 INCREDIBLY FORGETABLE TEXTURES ZONE: er.../gimmie a sec

There's always that ONE MAP fromt he contest nobody remembers; it's not bad enough to be memorable, nor is it somewhat above subpar (which is all it takes to win a contest nowadays), and this is it. All I remember is the use of about 5 textures in this level. And that's it. I might try it again later, but I honestly can't be arsed ATM. It's pretty sad when a level is so forgettable that I don't even WANT to play it again...

EDIT: Ah screw it, I really don't care about this level. Like... At all. And time is running short anyways.

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Instead, here's Luigi trying to hook up with a Sandvich.

Sapphire Coast THE SLIGHTLY ABOVE AVERAGE MAP WINS AGAIN ZONE: 6/10

I'll write this up laterAh screw it, I'm low on time, so I can't do a proper review, so I'll just say this: It's okay, for a first level. Because that's mainly what I would have said, in addition to just saying what other issues people have pointed out.

You're completely invincible if you have the elemental shield. To the water, AND to the boss. Except direct contact with the boss itself (which you can spawncamp with flames)

So here's some I Am Error pics.

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oh dear

CONCLUSION:

Once again, the only marginally better than average map wins because all of the others were lame. No zeros or ones this time, but it's still not good. The SP division has fallen under "RedEchidna Syndrome", where one average/below average map wins simply because the others are worse. Tisk Tisk.
 
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Not a lot of time left so i'm going to attempt to be brief. Note that I hardly got any chance to play most of these in a decent sized server (ie, more than 4 people), especially in CTF.

* Match *

Secluded Woodland Zone by Spherallic - 7/10
-Frikken gorgeous map.
-The layout is pretty good but it tends to be unclear where you're going in the narrow hallways; as a result, I almost never encounter anybody on the upper path and most of the fighting gets done around the water, which I imagine is because they keep looping around through the Scatter room.
-The random boxes seem to be a bit too out of the way
-<@Titanium> tunes 29 is proof that SSNTails is a pian killer

Random Valley Zone by nightmare cenz - 7/10
-Also very pretty use of the textures
-Yes it has too many redundant rooms and too many rings, though I didn't find it to be as disastrous as some of the votes would suggest. Let's file this under "excess of level design".

Cold Canyon Zone by RedEchidna - 3/10
-Unbalanced as all get-out, Rings are scarce in a large group
-Seriously? This feels like it was halfway crapped out of a drunken algorithm.

Sparkling City Zone by Neo - 8/10
-Awesome layout sabotaged by desperate lack of building texture/appearance variety
-Perhaps related to the above, can be a little tough to find people in small groups
-Just maybe too many rings
-1up theater screen kicks ass, just to reaffirm
-Just throwing this out here, but the unconstructed building seems like a slightly underutilized idea...
-If you update this without changing the BGM to Speed Highway At Dawn, you are a bad person and I will hurt you with a knife :( (seriously, i've got a perfect looping OGG of the song if you want it)

Midnight Park Zone by KO.T.E - 6/10
-I tend to lose track of people very easily on this map, be it due to the awful wall texture around most of the place or the colormap or whatever it is, but i'm not having much fun when i'm repeatedly getting beat up by shit that comes from seemingly nowhere :x
-Layout is otherwise alright I guess
-Bouncebouncebouncebouncebounce *ragequit* (auto is also a little cheap here)

Rocky Schlocky Mesa Zone by Brawl - 1/10
-Ha ha, no
-This is a 1094 map pulled out of cryogenic stasis in one's ass
-Independant floating waterfalls! Serious shit guys!

* CTF *

Slime Stronghold Zone by RedEchidna - 4/10
-My, what a confused level this is (read: what the fuck is with these textures)
-A couple interesting layout ideas (glass pipe base exit is one I guess) wrapped up in a heap of bad or poorly executed ones
-Flag rooms are quite curious. Extremely campable yet a nightmare to defend. No thanks.
-The map does seem salvageable, at least

Disrepaired Sanctuary The Hell Is In Our Water Supply? Zone by Mach - 3/10
-What everybody else has said: straight level, no base defense whatsoever, rail is OP if you're any good with it, takes eons to clear, ect... playable but weak.
-
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Just a lil' stuck there Inu?

Spaceport Warfare Zone by KO.T.E/Spherallic - 6/10
-It seems quite solid/fun, in spite of how much work it needs yet (hence why it's not a 7), though i've still not been able to play this yet with more than 4 people.
-Most impressive visuals
-Elevators should not stop your movement once the door closes - what's the point?
-If you're Sonic, there is only one way out of the base
-The SRM room in the base is a sucky dead end that seems very easy to hide in, and needs to be made into something else
-Middle area is rather dull
-Although the rafters around the rockets should be made use of, the map has a lot of hiding places as it is and caution should be excerised in not making them abuseable
-Try to find a way to be able to launch the rockets and cause a giant explosion somewhere else in the level :P *shot*

Flood Forest Zone by Glaber - 3/10
-Collossal excess of ammunition everywhere
-Interesting layout I suppose, but every enclosed space in the map is begging to be bounce-spammed
-Dead ends are bad, mmkay

* Circuit *

Azure Night Zone by Kaysakado - 2/10
-Uh, whatever?
-Even after you find the shortcuts it's still not funny :(

Super Sonic Starway Zone by RedEchidna - I abstain
-Neat idea, fucking awful map. I can't even finish a lap of this evil thing offline...which is your salvation, since I don't feel like scoring it otherwise. Try again with a less brutally obnoxious layout.
-This map is a really easy way to get a server stuck, if the host is AFK and does not move from a checkpoint sector or the finish line. If nobody around is capable of making 4 laps without running out of lives - a very common possibility - then people have to quit and rejoin to try their luck again. Even with the ability to get 50 rings back at checkpoints, it's a tedious pain up the ass once most of the rings get used up. Hence, the easy way out is just to give up and ragequit. And so the server sits. Barf.
-This thing isn't even functional in XSRB2, just for the record.

Cyan Caves Sunkist Slushi Zone by Blade - 7/10
-Not too shabby for a 2-hour rush job
-Horizontal flamethrowers are just a tad annoying to avoid as Knux

Aqua Palace Zone by Simsmagic - 4/10
-Thoooooook Feeeeessst (mostly due to that one underwater path, though)
-See above map for an example of what can be done in a hurry

Sky Cliffs Zone by darkbob1713 - 6/10
-A little plain, but fun. Needs more to do
-I know the blue springs at the start suck, but (speaking as a Knux user) there's a certain sadistic amusement from listening to the Sonics rage when they Game Over on it at lap 1 :p

---
Not voting on single player as usual, but next time some idiot crams a WAD full of 15-odd MB of garbage, a lot of which is from someone else's WAD and/or isn't even used, I might suggest disqualifying them out of spite. No, really.
 
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Yes it is funny. You rate all our levels bad right? No offense but now you know how we hate the low scores from you. It was a decent level though. I'll give it a 5/10.
 
Yes it is funny. You rate all our levels bad right? No offense but now you know how we hate the low scores from you.

HES GIVING US AN HONEST OPINION KILL HIM

Just because he gives low scores doesn't mean that his opinion does not matter, nor does it mean that EVERYONE doesn't care. Some people DO take these scores to heart you know. I know I did with Cloud Cradle, as I tried to remove a lot of the more unfun mechanics of the level, and while it's a lot less harder, it's a lot better. Now, some of us just have high standards, but if your level receives low scores, it's for a damn good reason.
 
I know I missed out on last time, but I'm back to remind you that your levels suck. A lot. As per usual in the OLDC.
You have the wrong idea of "suck" then. A 3 doesn't mean a level sucks, you know. Just like a 7 isn't awesome. It's really hard to make a good SP map, so don't expect too much from the contest.

Sparkling City Zone by Neo - 8/10
-Awesome layout sabotaged by desperate lack of building texture/appearance variety
Blame SRB2 and its lack of city textures.

Slime Stronghold Zone by RedEchidna - 4/10
-Flag rooms are quite curious. Extremely campable yet a nightmare to defend. No thanks.
You thought they were a nightmare to defend? Funny, because I found it extremely easy, actually too easy. Must be the people you or I played against.

Yes it is funny. You rate all our levels bad right? No offense but now you know how we hate the low scores from you. It was a decent level though. I'll give it a 5/10.
So who are you even talking about here? Kaysakado? MrMystery? D00D64? I seriously have no clue.
 
You have the wrong idea of "suck" then. A 3 doesn't mean a level sucks, you know. Just like a 7 isn't awesome. It's really hard to make a good SP map, so don't expect too much from the contest.

shhh i need to keep my negativity status quo okay

So who are you even talking about here? Kaysakado? MrMystery? D00D64? I seriously have no clue.

To be honest, I have no idea either. I thought it was Kays, but I'm not sure.
 
To be honest, I have no idea either. I thought it was Kays, but I'm not sure.
He only gave one score below 5, and that was a four. In fact, he gave better scores than most other people on average. SO um yeah, I hope he wasn't meant.
 
He only gave one score below 5, and that was a four. In fact, he gave better scores than most other people on average. SO um yeah, I hope he wasn't meant.
I think he mixed up Kaysakado and Kyasarin, seeing as their usernames are really similar.

Also, I think this might be the first time that I don't win a division this year. Oh well!
I hate my computer for refusing to connect to the internet the day the voting started
 
I think he mixed up Kaysakado and Kyasarin, seeing as their usernames are really similar.
I used to do that a lot :V

Also, I think this might be the first time that I don't win a division this year. Oh well!
I hate my computer for refusing to connect to the internet the day the voting started
Are you kidding? Like 90% of people are voting your CTF map higher than they're voting mine iirc.

:(

edit:
"RedEchidna Syndrome"
you bastard, using my name as a syndrome :(
 
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Golden Palace Zone by Interenet Explorer 5/10
This stage has a few good ideas, but it is very linear and execution needs work.

The visuals could use a lot of work as wells since as they are a bit painful to look at with all the yellow that is present in alot of areas. As far as using buttons, they may seem like a good idea but when they are used all through the level they get old really quickly. Look at the Casino zones in the Classic Sonic games and some in later Sonic games, they might have some ideas that could help improve this level.


Aqua Relic Zone by furythehog 6/10
The design and aesthetic of the level is solid, but both still could use improvement.

The level also could use some gimmicks rather than just platforming alone.

Emerald Lake Zone Act 1 by glaber 3/10
The level feels very constricted with the invisible walls. Fences or not, the idea of making something block the player off like it was executed in this level is not a good idea, especially if it makes the player think they could jump in a certain direction only to have them fall into the water.

The surface areas and underwater areas really seemed very tedious and was not very fun to play through at all to the point it felt like a lot of the platforming was the same exact pattern as another area.


Lava Reef Zone by WEREHOG 1/10
You could really do better than this, your level from the previous contest was better than this.

As said above, this is really a boring lava level that does not really add anything fun.
The platforming was really repetive, the factory part seemed out of place and not executed very well, the execution of the split paths needed a lot of work, and the button that leads to the beginning of the level made things a bit confusing, it is quite questionable why would there be a reason to be sent back to the beginning of the level.

I just quit after not being able to find the end, until I watched glaber's video on how to complete the level.

Sapphire Coast Zone Act 1 by Blade 9/10

I really enjoyed this level, it contains a few creative ideas.

The only problem I really have is once either you destroy a Springy-Shell stationed an edge that you absolutely need to progress through one path or one of the Buzz Bomber enemies shoot it you have to go backwards instead of continuing the path.

The secret was a nice touch to this level as well, I really enjoyed it.
 
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Once again, the average map wins because all of the others were lame. No zeros or ones this time, but it's still not good. The SP division has fallen under "RedEchidna Syndrome", where one average/below average map wins simply because the others are worse. Tisk Tisk.
Except that you gave the "average/below average map" a 7, which means it's well above average. Maybe if I stopped complaining, I'd take you seriously :P

The only problem I really have is once either you destroy a Springy-Shell stationed an edge that you absolutely need to progress through one path or one of the Buzz Bomber enemies shoot it you have to go backwards instead of continuing the path.
There is a spring behind the bush. But you haven't been the first to not notice it, so that part should definitely be changed.

EDIT: Look what I got for you. These are the results, according to my calculations. Since it might take some time until FF gets to post the official results, take this in the meantime. Any votes or updates to the scores made after this shall be edited in, of course. I disregarded Kyasarin's votes (if every single of his votes would be dropped, you know something's wrong).
 
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Except that you gave the "average/below average map" a 7, which means it's well above average. Maybe if I stopped complaining, I'd take you seriously :P

To me, 7=%70=C=Average.

I certainly wouldn't call an "F" average.

Unless we've been doing the 5=Average thing this whole time, when I coulda SWORN someone said it was a 7=Average deal.
 
School rating is something entirely different, because if you only manage to do 50% of what is expected of you in school, you sure suck. In contests, it's different. 5 is average of course, seeing is as it's exactly between 0 and 10. Why would we have a numerical scale if the middle wasn't the middle?

inb4 you actually change your score for SCZ to 5.
 
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