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Old 09-03-2013   #101
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Originally Posted by speed2411 View Post
I actualy dislike the idea of forcing Knuckles onto another path then the rest. It gets to me that I cannot explore that area of the stage as another person and it makes me feel like I am missing out... I feel as if this idea should be removed, but that is just me.
Is there a particular reason you want to play the same linear game again with a different double jump, rather than an entirely new experience.
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Old 09-03-2013   #102
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I have to add, Knuckles exclusive paths are welcome additions to the game since they give off more replay value like it has been stated already. In the current version I already beat the game as Sonic, but I am playing it again for the few Knuckles exclusive paths that are in the game right now.

I liked them in Sonic 3&K because it gave me another reason to replay the game again and I definitely would love to see more of them in future versions of Srb2 whenever they do get added.
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Old 09-04-2013   #103
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I disagree entirely. Exclusive paths are a big part of replay value; that's the main reason I spent so many hours as a kid playing Sonic & Knuckles as opposed to so few in Sonic 2. Without the branching levels, you're just replaying the same thing with a different ability.

EDIT: I should add that I've only beaten Sonic 3 & Knuckles as Tails once. After realizing that nearly nothing was different from Sonic's route, I became uninterested to replay as Tails. I've tried many times since, but I've never felt motivated enough to finish.
Not even close. Who says you can not have multiple routes, but be able to play them with any charector.

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Hardly surprising how playing Sonic's routes as Tails would be boring regardless of exclusive paths or not, he's basically easy mode with that flying of his after all.

Now, if it was instead, say, Robo-Hood going through those routes...
Not for me. You see, in a level like this one, it is really annoying to go right if you want to go straight. Not only that, it also looks ugly as well.

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Is there a particular reason you want to play the same linear game again with a different double jump, rather than an entirely new experience.
Easy. It makes the affect of being a open enviormeant more belivable, instead of havnig a straight path that you are forced to follow. It is like saying, I am going to a store. I can go right into the parking lot by turning left, but there is a "Do Not Enter" sign. The entering area is all the way on the other side of the parking lot, and you are forced to go around, and then you look back and see a tractor with "Authority" entering the "Do Not Enter Area." How would that make you feel?

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I have to add, Knuckles exclusive paths are welcome additions to the game since they give off more replay value like it has been stated already. In the current version I already beat the game as Sonic, but I am playing it again for the few Knuckles exclusive paths that are in the game right now.

I liked them in Sonic 3&K because it gave me another reason to replay the game again and I definitely would love to see more of them in future versions of Srb2 whenever they do get added.
Who says having many other paths, but having all charectors being able to access it is wrong? Sure, you MIGHT be able to make a tails path, but have knuckles be able to use it as well. Sure you can have a knuckles path, but why not have Sonic be able to use it as well?

I know you guys all disagree with me, but try to look at things at my perspective. I do not like to be forced to go this way, or to be this charector. I am just throwing my ideas out there... If you guys do not like it, fine with me. I am not complaining.
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Old 09-04-2013   #104
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Easy. It makes the affect of being a open enviormeant more belivable, instead of havnig a straight path that you are forced to follow. It is like saying, I am going to a store. I can go right into the parking lot by turning left, but there is a "Do Not Enter" sign. The entering area is all the way on the other side of the parking lot, and you are forced to go around, and then you look back and see a tractor with "Authority" entering the "Do Not Enter Area." How would that make you feel?
It would make me feel like an idiot for trying to enter a parking lot from the wrong side. Clearly I didn't have the authorization to come in from that side, and I should've known better.

I don't see what your objection to character-specific paths is. More to the point, your argument that it's more fun to explore the same paths everyone can access with the characters that can easily gain verticality highly devalues Sonic. He can't go as high as the other two, so what's the point of playing as him if you could play as Tails or Knuckles instead? At least with Knuckles-only paths, you now have areas that Knuckles can't easily reach, making playing as Sonic more worthwhile, while also having areas Sonic can't reach, making playing as Knuckles more worthwhile. (Also, it adds the implicit challenge of "get character X into character Y's path, where they're not supposed to be", which is a fairly interesting bonus perk.)

I'd admittedly like to have Tails-only paths as well, but that'd require having some kind of gimmick that Sonic could overcome that Tails couldn't, and I can't really think of any. (Maybe Tails Adventure-style wind that only affects you when you fly, but that could be difficult to communicate visually.)

Either way, while your objection is noted, frankly I'm inclined to disregard it.
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Old 09-04-2013   #105
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.
At least with Knuckles-only paths, you now have areas that Knuckles can't easily reach, making playing as Sonic more worthwhile,
But if Sonic can not even get to the knuckles path, what is the point?


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.

while also having areas Sonic can't reach, making playing as Knuckles more worthwhile.
Same thing reversed. If Knuckles is forced to go on his own path, then he can not go on the Sonic path and reach the areas Sonic can not. The point is, having Sonic forced to go in ONE path is bad. I agree Knuckles and tails can go up and explor more then sonic, but FORCING knuckles to go on this path bothers me a lot.
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Old 09-04-2013   #106
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Originally Posted by speed2411 View Post
But if Sonic can not even get to the knuckles path, what is the point?
If you could do everything there is to do as one character alone, there wouldn't be much point using the other characters at all.

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I'd admittedly like to have Tails-only paths as well, but that'd require having some kind of gimmick that Sonic could overcome that Tails couldn't, and I can't really think of any. (Maybe Tails Adventure-style wind that only affects you when you fly, but that could be difficult to communicate visually.)
Didn't RedEnchilada once do that sort of thing using strong wind, so only Sonic with his high-speed thok can get through? Can't remember the name of the map that was in right now though.
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Old 09-04-2013   #107
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But if Sonic can not even get to the knuckles path, what is the point?
The point is to motivate you to play as Knuckles at some point instead of only ever playing as your favorite character. I fail to see how this isn't obvious.
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Old 09-04-2013   #108
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If Sonic and Tails get multiple paths, and Knuckles gets exactly one path and no choice in the matter whatsoever, that doesn't motivate me to play as Knuckles. If anything, it makes me not want to play as him.

The bigger problem, though, is that the easiest - and thus, most used - way to block out Knuckles from a path is to make a platform that is just barely out of his reach. This feels like a complete cop-out and winds up being rather aggravating for some players, because the jump doesn't look impossible until it's been tried a few times. It also means Knuckles never gets to see whirlwind shields, because otherwise they can just ignore the attempt at a forced path and go down another character's path anyway.

Subtle level differences (using No Sonic/Tails/Knux flags) causing a character specific path switch would work much better, in my opinion... but they're more difficult to create.
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Old 09-04-2013   #109
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Subtle level differences (using No Sonic/Tails/Knux flags) causing a character specific path switch would work much better, in my opinion... but they're more difficult to create.
And they don't work at all in multiplayer anyway.
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Old 09-04-2013   #110
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And they don't work at all in multiplayer anyway.
Knuckles-specific paths don't work in multiplayer in the first place. Not when you can switch characters on the fly or have a Tails friend carry you around.
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Old 09-04-2013   #111
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Originally Posted by 犬夜叉 View Post
If Sonic and Tails get multiple paths, and Knuckles gets exactly one path and no choice in the matter whatsoever, that doesn't motivate me to play as Knuckles. If anything, it makes me not want to play as him.

The bigger problem, though, is that the easiest - and thus, most used - way to block out Knuckles from a path is to make a platform that is just barely out of his reach. This feels like a complete cop-out and winds up being rather aggravating for some players, because the jump doesn't look impossible until it's been tried a few times. It also means Knuckles never gets to see whirlwind shields, because otherwise they can just ignore the attempt at a forced path and go down another character's path anyway.

Subtle level differences (using No Sonic/Tails/Knux flags) causing a character specific path switch would work much better, in my opinion... but they're more difficult to create.
I have to agree on you except with the "No Sonic" tags thing.

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Knuckles-specific paths don't work in multiplayer in the first place. Not when you can switch characters on the fly or have a Tails friend carry you around.
Agreed there.
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Old 09-04-2013   #112
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Personally, the right balance would be having 'x' character only paths, but being able to access most of them with other characters if the player has enough ability or by using a not so obvious way. For example:

Sonic´s emblem on GFZ1 in SRB2 (most players wouldn´t have even tried to reach the house with Sonic if it wasn´t because that emblem):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku_dWyraQNE

Reaching Carnival Night boss with Knuckles in S3&K:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2tPUcG3bKk

I mean: Yeah, there should be paths made specially for Sonic, Tails or Knuckles. Being able to access them with other characters doing something not so obvious is cool though.

About Sonic only paths: They can be done either by high speed (ERZ2 already did it if I´m not mistaken), or having some kind of trap that could only be passed with a thok. Again, you could make these kind of paths accessible by having a speed box either hard to find or timed far away, requiring playing too good to reach the path with Tails or Knuckles with them on.

Anyway, I think that was the original idea in SRB2 to begin with, and that´s how S3K actually plays on many parts. One of the fun parts about that game when I was young was trying to get into a path where I shouldn´t be.
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Old 09-04-2013   #113
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Sonic paths could easily be pulled off if you reintroduced waterskimming, but made it less broken. You can only perform it by running onto a water FOF from another platform that's about level height at full speed, and slowing down makes you fall immidietely.

You also shouldn't be able to run on rising water, you'd fall through immediately.
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Old 09-05-2013   #114
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Sonic paths could easily be pulled off if you reintroduced waterskimming, but made it less broken. You can only perform it by running onto a water FOF from another platform that's about level height at full speed, and slowing down makes you fall immidietely.

You also shouldn't be able to run on rising water, you'd fall through immediately.
Tails and Knuckles could just spindash onto the water to skim across it you know. Sonic can do it too so it isn't really changing anything.
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Old 09-05-2013   #115
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They'll just hit a wall when they do. So if you're gonna separate sonic just have a jump at the end of the water. He only falls through when he lands. I thought that'd be a simple implication I wouldn't need to explain.
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Old 09-05-2013   #116
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But then you're forgetting that Tails could probably just fly from further away over the ledge and Knuckles might be able to glide over there as well.
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Old 09-05-2013   #117
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But then you're forgetting that Tails could probably just fly from further away over the ledge and Knuckles might be able to glide over there as well.
No, they can not. They want to FORCE Knuckles to go on this path. So Knuckles will not be able to follow the rest at one point.
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Old 09-05-2013   #118
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But then you're forgetting that Tails could probably just fly from further away over the ledge and Knuckles might be able to glide over there as well.
The new Sonic 3 flight in 2.1 means Tails won't be able to cross many distances cheaply. Could easily be done by putting stuff in tails' way or making the path too long for him to cross fully, making sure he can't get enough height by any nearby platforms.
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Old 09-05-2013   #119
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Personally i like the idea of adding knuckles path. I finally have a good reason to play as all characters , sonic for a hard gameplay, tails for a easy and knuckles for is unique paths.


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Originally Posted by Knuckles MetalMind View Post
Personally, the right balance would be having 'x' character only paths, but being able to access most of them with other characters if the player has enough ability or by using a not so obvious way. For example:

Sonic´s emblem on GFZ1 in SRB2 (most players wouldn´t have even tried to reach the house with Sonic if it wasn´t because that emblem):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku_dWyraQNE

Reaching Carnival Night boss with Knuckles in S3&K:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2tPUcG3bKk

I mean: Yeah, there should be paths made specially for Sonic, Tails or Knuckles. Being able to access them with other characters doing something not so obvious is cool though.

About Sonic only paths: They can be done either by high speed (ERZ2 already did it if I´m not mistaken), or having some kind of trap that could only be passed with a thok. Again, you could make these kind of paths accessible by having a speed box either hard to find or timed far away, requiring playing too good to reach the path with Tails or Knuckles with them on.

Anyway, I think that was the original idea in SRB2 to begin with, and that´s how S3K actually plays on many parts. One of the fun parts about that game when I was young was trying to get into a path where I shouldn´t be.
The sonic path is in EGZ1 not 2

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Old 09-05-2013   #120
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The sonic path is in EGZ1 not 2
The acronym is ERZ, actually, and the crusher path can be completed by any character with a spindash.

...for that matter, that path can be completed by Robohood thanks to the wallslide glitch, but it's kinda silly to count that.
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