Nostalgia

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Spazzo said:
Newcomers usually don't think to read rules, the FAQ, or the Wiki because they believe that they are better than that, and can suffice without viewing any of them.

Yeah. It's bad for them and ever worse for us. They don't learn, and we have to answer their stupid questions. People should get banned for making stupid, pointless, and retarded posts.

Mystic said:
We've had a monstrous amount of bans in the past few weeks, and honestly, I think we're actually getting somewhere.

Yes, we still get retarded questions constantly, but they get banned constantly as well.

Thank you.
 
SSNTails said:
I think what all these words are trying to say is that n00bish behavior is not a problem exclusive to this board, rather it is a product of today's culture. You're going to have lots of n00bs, everywhere.
Yes, that's more or less it. Personally, it just doesn't work for me to just accept that as everlasting fact. We have to draw the line somewhere. But just telling people "not to be n00bs" and leaving it at that doesn't do anything. You have to pinpoint where the real problem is coming from, and then try your best to fix it.

That's why I say such a thing is out of the scope of the community: the real problem, in my eyes, is one that exists everywhere. Even amongst people who have never posted on a message board in their lives.

We can control what we have right now and make it better in our eyes, though. It's really the best we can do at this point. Even though I actually find it counter-productive to the big picture, it's really more productive in some circles -- ours, for instance. We enforce these rules for a reason, don't we? Here, let me pitch an idea: we enforce them for ourselves. Ourselves. What we want, for instance. And I'm talking about personal desires. I don't see that as bad, exactly. It's not exactly our faults.

For this reason, I'll try to stop talking about the counter-point -- the "big picture", that is, -- to making things better, because we can almost certainly try to make things around here better for ourselves, at least. Nobody can make a utopia using the methods commonly employed across internet communities right now, but it would be absolutely inaccurate of me to say "don't try." The "big picture" should be saved for another day, but I just want to make sure why we're even doing this in the first place. That's honestly the main point of me talking. :)
 
Man, there are a lot of walls of texts.
But anyway, I think there should be a spelling and grammar test when you register. It would be kind of hard to code, though. Plus, the people might just copy and paste whatever they're supposed to write, and if it's an image, they could just copy it exactly, and then later they just type lik ths lolololol. Of course, n00bs might not be smart enough to think of that.
 
Kayasakado, please read he walls of text before commenting. Please.

Digiku said:
SSNTails said:
I think what all these words are trying to say is that n00bish behavior is not a problem exclusive to this board, rather it is a product of today's culture. You're going to have lots of n00bs, everywhere.
Yes, that's more or less it. Personally, it just doesn't work for me to just accept that as everlasting fact. We have to draw the line somewhere. But just telling people "not to be n00bs" and leaving it at that doesn't do anything. You have to pinpoint where the real problem is coming from, and then try your best to fix it.
I'd say text messaging and IMing, for starters. People are really only interacting with other people who can actually read text like "i luv u". Then once they start interacting with us, users who type things out, conflict emerges. If we could somehow fix this, I'd love it. Unfortunately, most of us do start as idiots, whether or not we start here. I was lucky enough to get that out of my system on Wikipedia, but I can't say others are as fortunate.
 
Well, the thing is, I was saying that this is something we can't really fix the problem by measures like that. Just control it to an extent.
 
Just by lurking recently after a long absence, I can easily tell how the community has fallen apart and this truthful topic makes me feel sad now. *sigh* I'm getting older by the minute. How I'd yearn for the early days...
 
Why do I always see you popping in and out of everywhere, Pikawil? I swear, I must have seen you in at least five or six different communities. It's... weird.
 
Pikawil said:
Just by lurking recently after a long absence, I can easily tell how the community has fallen apart and this truthful topic makes me feel sad now. *sigh* I'm getting older by the minute. How I'd yearn for the early days...

Just don't visit the Releases forum.
 
I never read the rules.

I just knew that, even on the Web, you should be polite.

EDIT:

SSN, there is no Releases forum anymore.

It shut down on February 22.

In case you forgot.
 
Sorry about the away time. I was, uh, "resolving" my computer time, so to speak.

Basically, one of the main answers I see is to think outside the box and eliminate the source(s) of noobs. SRB2, I'm sure, has been hosted many places, and advertised in even more. The game feeds on all places that show that SRB2 exists and is a game that you will like. If noobs dominate those communities, then that's what we're being fed. If that's the case, the creator (SSNTails and/or Sonikku, whom is currently nonexistant) or a staff member of SRB2 can request that the webmaster of that site to take SRB2 off of there. If they do, the income of noobs should be lessened. If not, well, it was worth a shot.

Second, there are the "minor" sources, those being the people who advertise SRB2 or directly tell about it to their friends. These are obviously small problems, but they add up phenomenally when there's a lot of them. Since most of these people are noobs, it's a safe guess that the audience that looks at their advertisements or talks to them are noobs too. Trying to get rid all of the sig ads and such that only idiots see by, I dunno, contacting the webmaster or whatever, would clearly be a waste of time. Instead, we'd have to keep more from popping up and getting to the wrong public. How we do that is simple, but tricky. We just disencourage those people to play SRB2's master server. There are a couple ways of doing this.

The first way, is for us to neglect his idiocy. If the community is supplied with netgames by responsible hosts, the noob will be kicked out of the netgame whenever demanding that they "add sms", "startrings plz", or "gravity 0"; if the community as a whole is smart, then whatever dumbassery the noob commits on his own server, people aren't going to like, and they're going to leave. Undoubtedly, the noob isn't going to tell others what a great online game SRB2 is. If everybody's roleplaying or chatting or whatever lame crap the noobs would be interested in, then SRB2 is pretty much a haven for lamers, and they'll likely tell others about it.

Of course, there mostly consists of noobs on the master server, so that plan doesn't seem to work. So, onto the second way of resolving noob income. If none of the above is to be done, then at the VERY LEAST, remove the info from the main page that you can netgame, and/or erase the location of the master server given in SRB2. We know that the noobs are commonly lazy as freakin' hell, so they won't bother looking at the wiki, and maybe not the forums either, for the master server url. Or better yet, they might not even know about netplay. Doing this, I think, will eliminate a lot of trouble; noobs mostly hear about wads and console from other SRB2 users during netplay. If they don't even know about netplay, then we've skipped through crappy servers, overflowed coop servers, "how do u add wads", "add sms", at least 40 times for a year onwards. They may ask for the server address on the MB. Hopefully, if the server address is up as a forum sticky or something, we won't give them it, and they'll be banned from the MB and still not know how to go onto netgames. Since most online noobs are here for mostly multiplayer, eliminating that from them pretty much kills their interest in SRB2 as a whole. For the noobs who still figured out how to play online, it will still help lessen the difficulty of the "first way" mentioned.

Personally, I don't think it's just the admins that should be trying better the community. Everyone should give their input and ideas if they want better netgames. The negative "Okay, but the noobs will still keep coming" comment, however, is not what I'd consider input unless a valid reason is given.

Oh, and speaking of "everyone", another idea I had on decreasing noobism: don't answer stupid questions on the forums. Don't even tell them to look at the wiki. Leave the number of replies to 0, and let the admins kill the topic off. We aren't helping the community by aiding noobs on something they clearly didn't bother to look up. So try not to give into your kind side.
 
Luckilly, I read the biggest and most important wall of text. The one above this post, and I'd just like to say that it's GENIOUS(sp?)! I think that for the Netplay thing, there could be a console command named Netplay, and it would take you to the multiplayer menu. The SRB2Netgame Launcher should be renamed to the SRB2Launcher, and not let you start or join netgames. And the default Master Server will be "La-la Land", and you'll have to change back to Srb2.Servegame.org
 
Blue Warrior said:
If the community is supplied with netgames by responsible hosts, the noob will be kicked out of the netgame whenever demanding that they "add sms", "startrings plz", or "gravity 0"; if the community as a whole is smart, then whatever dumbassery the noob commits on his own server, people aren't going to like, and they're going to leave.
Perhaps strange, I'd say this calls for a demand for Mystic Realm to be unpopularized in netgames. My main reason being levels featured such as Prismatic Angel. The degree of difficulty featured means n00bs can't do it, and thus ask for startrings to go super (assuming they have the emeralds) and gravity commands. There are many, many other spots in MR that feature "impossible" jumps required to finish the level that encourage this behaviour as well, but not as prominent.

If this wasn't in MR in the first place, I'd say we'd have less of this. I'm still waiting to push for Mystic to scrap some of the carp in MR, but the last MR topic was in the old releases forum. ;.;
 
Blue Warrior said:
A bunch of stuff.
It really would work for us, wouldn't it? On the other hand, it's like you're drowning the fish by trapping them in air. (Sorry.) The fish being the newbies. The drowning-in-air being neglecting their whims and stuff. And wouldn't that make them miserable? Though, if you think about it, you could probably do that and it would actually work by driving the newbies off to places where they would feel better.

---

I just thought of this: a lot of these people we're thinking of are those who consider themselves shy, socially inept, part of a stigma, etc. That's why they're here. Heck, I could point out a good few of the oldbies that are here for that. Therefore, if we don't want such newbies, all of us are just going to make it worse. We'll keep on fighting against them, and it's more misery for them, and by them being driven out for that, that's how BW's idea could function.

It's a short-term solution. It works for us, because all of us need the fulfillment, too. Otherwise, why would we be duking it out against the newbies? On the other hand, it doesn't help the newbies at all, or the bigger problem, so it seems. It doesn't make them feel better from their stigma, at least until they find another community they like (and they should.) It's like the more elite Sonic communities. Considering my point in the above paragraph, though, I can't really say anything.

Good thinking, though. I respect that. Yeah, I know I haven't been making much sense. If it makes you feel better, I am holding back. And for good reason, too. Sorry, but nobody here can expect me to help. I lost too much interest around here to consider myself integral, after all. It's not that I don't want this place to succeed, but it's that I work for everybody now, not just here.

It's an idea that's deserving of examination, at the very least. We could certainly try it, but I have a real inkling that the admins have something to say about it.
 
Digiku said:
Blue Warrior said:
A bunch of stuff.
It really would work for us, wouldn't it? On the other hand, it's like you're drowning the fish by trapping them in air. (Sorry.) The fish being the newbies. The drowning-in-air being neglecting their whims and stuff. And wouldn't that make them miserable? Though, if you think about it, you could probably do that and it would actually work by driving the newbies off to places where they would feel better.

---

I just thought of this: a lot of these people we're thinking of are those who consider themselves shy, socially inept, part of a stigma, etc. That's why they're here. Heck, I could point out a good few of the oldbies that are here for that. Therefore, if we don't want such newbies, all of us are just going to make it worse. We'll keep on fighting against them, and it's more misery for them, and by them being driven out for that, that's how BW's idea could function.

It's a short-term solution. It works for us, because all of us need the fulfillment, too. Otherwise, why would we be duking it out against the newbies? On the other hand, it doesn't help the newbies at all, or the bigger problem, so it seems. It doesn't make them feel better from their stigma, at least until they find another community they like (and they should.) It's like the more elite Sonic communities. Considering my point in the above paragraph, though, I can't really say anything.


You raise some good points. These ideas are just aimed at noobs, though; if a downloadable game site hosting it is decent, then they can keep hosting it - I'd love an income of new members, just as long as they're decent.

Besides, there's a clear IQ range difference between noobs and newbies. Any newbie that's been on an online community before will remember: don't act stupid. On the other hand, a newb to the internet may have a hard time with the way the community works. I'm sure that as time progresses and the community gets its standards back up without much hassle from noobs, though, that members of it will be less harsh on newbs when they make a goof-up. The reason why I'm still on the internet is particularly because VGMusic was a friendly community; I wasn't thin-skinned to criticism, and I'm still not, but the members' kind attitudes towards newbies made it really easy -- and fun -- to post on the forums. I'd like this one to grow that attribute too, though I know it'll be hard what with the idiots joining right now.

I know what you mean by the "neglecting their whims" thing. If everyone's died on the seventh zone of Mystic Realm when we have most of the chaos emeralds, I'm not just going to go through the whole friggin' level pack all over again. I'll just press "exitlevel", or maybe even pull "startlives 20" if I'm feeling rather generous. What normally peeves me off, and likely many others, are those who ask to verify them so that they can do whatever they want, ask for 999 rings so they can turn Super Sonic (some people, especially me, prefer to earn Super Sonic first), add crappy wads, or those that most people don't have; I find it also rude when they join just to say those things. I'm still willing to listen to suggestions, such as turning on/off ringslinger in race, do match in a CTF stage for a small while, or just skip to a different gametype. Whatever spices up gameplay, as long as it isn't retarded.

Good thinking, though. I respect that. Yeah, I know I haven't been making much sense. If it makes you feel better, I am holding back. And for good reason, too.

I'm feeling fine, no need to hold back for that; the more opinions, the better. ;)

Sorry, but nobody here can expect me to help. I lost too much interest around here to consider myself integral, after all. It's not that I don't want this place to succeed, but it's that I work for everybody now, not just here.

That's no problem. The members that I want are those that are saying "tHE COMMUNITY'S BROKEN, FIX IT d:" to help give ideas on fix it, rather than do nothing but complain.

It's an idea that's deserving of examination, at the very least. We could certainly try it, but I have a real inkling that the admins have something to say about it.

I would be surprised if they didn't, personally. :P
 
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