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Old 04-04-2013   #61
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100 looks fine and is easily deducible when next to the ring and time emblems. And the game already has enough Touhou references, stop it already
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Old 04-04-2013   #62
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Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Special stage records are accessed through a NiGHTS mode, which is similar to Record Attack mode, except purely for the NiGHTS stages. You still have to beat the special stages in the main game to get access to them in NiGHTS mode.
So let's say I just beat Special Stage 1. Does that mean I unlocked NiGHTS mode but only have access to the first special stage or do I have to beat all the special stages to unlock the mode?
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Old 04-04-2013   #63
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Definitely go with the "100". Nothing could represent score better in a Sonic game, you also see it every time you destroy an enemy! About the blue Special Stage emblem, if it's a placeholder for the A-Rank emblem (as SpiritCrusher says), I'd say use an "A".

By the way, what's the symbol on the first SS emblem?
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Old 04-04-2013   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whackjood View Post
Why not just use a small flag?
To me, a flag would indicate something more like time attack than a score.

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Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
Turns out it's a lot more complicated than that. "Points", and in particular, the abbreviation "PT" for it, is used in Competition mode, and it is separate from Score. You can't easily use "S" either because of the constant usage of Super Sonic, both words starting with "S".
Does that leave PTS out? Or maybe just the letter P? That makes more sense than Kanji to me.

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Originally Posted by Blazing Inferno View Post
I'm not sure why you'd want a level as simple and bland as that. Even if a method like this was implemented into

the "assumed" final zone, there would be various changes involved so that it even meets srb2's standards.
I don't know, I thought the disproportionately long ovular planets and Unregistered Hypercam 2 logo were a brilliant new direction for SRB2!
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Old 04-04-2013   #65
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Originally Posted by Iceman404 View Post
I still have no idea why card symbols for character-specific emblems. And what is that gray heart emblem anyway?
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Old 04-04-2013   #66
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To Brown the dog: the first 5 emblems can be collected as ANY character, none is character-specific.
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Old 04-04-2013   #67
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Originally Posted by SSNTails View Post
Dave Perry gave a speech at GDC in 1999(?) that covered this topic. I'd link it if I could still find the transcript. You don't want to use color to differentiate stuff in a game when possible. This was a huge driving force behind (finally) changing the look of the shields in SRB2 so they weren't just colored orbs.
Ah yes, you are totally right. I forgot about people with color blindness. I guess it is better to do both.
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Old 04-05-2013   #68
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I think 100 fits much better than the random Kanji symbol which no one will get at all.
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Old 04-05-2013   #69
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Does it really matter? Really? Ask yourself, what will i gain? It does not really make a difference to you. The only bad thing would be new players, but they learn eventually, so really, they both mean points, and the only way i will change my view point, is if they replace it with some random thing, like a Justin Bieber head, but that will never happen, so yeah.
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Old 04-05-2013   #70
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I cast my vote in with the 100.
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Old 04-05-2013   #71
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You know...if it's really so confusing, put a "emblem guide" in the menu.

When you select it, it shows you the icon, and the name and how to get it.
ex: *star emblem* "Hidden emblem - Find it hidden in the level"
*100 emblem* "score emblem - earned for reaching x points in the level"

*shrug*
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Old 04-05-2013   #72
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Guys, we're not using the 100. If we're fixing this issue, we're fixing it properly, and that means using an icon and not a character or group of characters that has any direct written meaning in English, Japanese, or any other language. This means that "100", "Sc", "Pt", or any other similar suggestion is off the table. If you want to suggest new ideas or present a variation of an old one, feel free, but this isn't a popularity contest and saying "I agree" isn't going to accomplish anything.
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Old 04-05-2013   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
Guys, we're not using the 100. If we're fixing this issue, we're fixing it properly, and that means using an icon and not a character or group of characters that has any direct written meaning in English, Japanese, or any other language. This means that "100", "Sc", "Pt", or any other similar suggestion is off the table. If you want to suggest new ideas or present a variation of an old one, feel free, but this isn't a popularity contest and saying "I agree" isn't going to accomplish anything.
There is such irony in this,
But i agree with Mystic. As long as it is clear, not confusing, i am fine with it.

Edit: Is it the "I's"?

(speed2411 received an infraction for this post: Use correct grammar and spelling.)
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Old 04-05-2013   #74
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Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
Guys, we're not using the 100. If we're fixing this issue, we're fixing it properly, and that means using an icon and not a character or group of characters that has any direct written meaning in English, Japanese, or any other language. This means that "100", "Sc", "Pt", or any other similar suggestion is off the table.
How does "100" mean different things in different languages? Arabic numerals are used essentially worldwide. "100" also has clear connotations with the concept of points, dating all the way back to pinball machines. Both Mario and Sonic games, along with other classic platformers, display an "100" whenever you defeat an enemy. It seems pretty obvious to me. (And that's not me mindlessly repeating and justifying popular opinion—I came up with the idea in the first place. I'm allowed to argue for it, dammit.)

Last edited by Unknownlight; 04-05-2013 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 04-05-2013   #75
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The problem with the "100" icon is that it immediately begs the question "one hundred of what?" While 100 points are commonly granted for hitting enemies, the number "100" is used in the game quite a bit for quite a lot of things, and the most relevant one isn't even score. If you're going to go with enemy destruction as your motif, then the suggestion of using a Crawla or a Flicky is far better.
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Old 04-05-2013   #76
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This is a really crazy idea; but what if a symbol of certain meaning can be added at the end of a stage next to the SCORE at the end of a stage (maybe near the enemy bonus?). If you do that, then you can use the same symbol for the emblem.
If you make the player associate with that symbol early in the game, then they will understand when they achieve the goal. Even as simple as a pentagon or something. Maybe even have the three areas being recorded at the level with the emblems next to it.
That's what I think, I'm not sure if that will clash with the current UI or if the devs are willing to rework the result screen to fit a single symbol for this. But hey, just throwing it out there.

Last edited by Violo; 04-05-2013 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 04-05-2013   #77
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@Mystic:

Point taken. I decided to test it with my dad, who played the original SMB when he was younger.

Me: Okay, so pretend that this is for a Mario game. You win emblems by fulfilling certain conditions within levels.
Dad: Okay.
Me: You win the one with the hourglass by beating a level within a certain amount of time.
Dad: Right.
Me: You win the one with the ringóthis game's equivalent of coinsóby getting a certain amount of rings within the level.
Dad: Okay. What's the point of this, again?
Me: Nothing much. Just asking a question. How do you think you would get the one in the center? What does the hundred represent?
Dad: *pause* ...Points?
Me: Exactly! Thanks, Dad.

That's only one test, sure, but undoubtably more people will understand that the "100" refers to points than there will be people who recognize Kanji. "100" is really not as confusing as you think it is. Test it with people.

By the way:

Quote:
and that means using an icon and not a character or group of characters that has any direct written meaning in English, Japanese, or any other language.
...But you're using a Kanji symbol. That means "score". How is that any different from using "Pt."?
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Old 04-05-2013   #78
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What's funny is that the "100 points of what" excuse falls apart considering you only see the emblem once you've obtained it, meaning the player by then would already know it represents points and not a specific requirement of them. That said, its really boiled down to whatever represents it better in general in the long run: what most people understand and will after they've gotten the emblem itself, or something that was snuck in for the reason THAT NO ONE getting it is okay because then the specification-nazis can't bash us for it.

If I were to pick my poison it'd be Pt., or 100. Kanji is just out of place and ridiculous anyways, it should just be ruled out if you're picking options. I'd rather there be two second confusion about getting 100 of something than not knowing what the emblem is at all.


If it is really necessary to have everything be an icon or symbol, and not just make an exception this one time, I've pretty much just clocked out at this point.
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Old 04-05-2013   #79
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I think you all have made it clear that you don't like our lazy solution to the problem. That doesn't mean we're going to sit down and use another lazy reactionary answer like "Sc" or "100". Give us time to think about it, and if you have a good suggestion that fits in well with the rest of the icons, feel free.

Last edited by Mystic; 04-05-2013 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 04-05-2013   #80
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Gentlemen, I believe I have a solution that will please everyone.



As for an actual solution, I'd still be up for SOME way to show a Crawla or other badnik, but with such a small space, it's rather difficult. Having any form of text just really sticks out and looks odd, especially since not a single other emblem is like this. As much as it needs changing... I'm running a blank. I can't even come up with anything that COULD be the solution if size wasn't an issue. a sillowette of a badnik or small animal just wouldn't get the detail needed to be anything but a strange geometric shape that could be anything. Score is just a number, and given how score is earned purely through badniks and post-level bonuses, there isn't much to go off of.

...And before anyone things "Bonus = Signpost", that just looks like act completion.
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