Big Switch to OpenGL Exclusive?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I know absolutely nothing about anything: coding related, mapmaking related...game making related in general.
And I want to be able to play SRB2 official levels redesigned with slopes. Because SRB2 is so close to a perfect recreation of the classic games in 3D, it just needs slopes. Everything else, momentum, physics...it's all good. Just...slopes. I want it. I don't care about all these other technical details or lighting or billboards and whatever else there is. I can deal with worse graphics if I get better gameplay in return.
But...I guess whining about it isn't going to help, since after reading this topic it looks like slopes aren't going to happen. Darn. Whining would've been easier.

Kalaron, you say you didn't know about coding or anything when you started, but you learned in order to make the CB? Sweet. That's something to be proud of. What articles on the wiki or elsewhere on the web did you use to help you learn? Can you link me to them?
Because you're right. The official devs don't owe us anything. We can do all this ourselves if we put our mind to it. And I have a hell of a lot of free time this summer that's going to be utterly wasted unless I do something. Helping out with one of my favourite games ever is something I may have the passion to do for at least a little while. *cracks knuckles*
 
That's the thing. In the SRB2 scope of things, Slopes don't offer much of an improvement to gameplay, and loops would be as pointless as they are in the official 3D games.
 
It's attitudes like that that convinced me that, if I want it (which I do), I may have to do it myself, as unfortunate as that sounds like to the naturally-lazy me.

Loops? No, those really are useless.
 
However, slopes are needed to fully achieve a classic Sonic style. As well, they would offer many new gimmicks, especially in DSZ and ERZ, where they would give some neat effects. The one drawback is the complete change of SRB2's feel... but we could just keep the official levels as-is if need be.
 
It's attitudes like that that convinced me that, if I want it (which I do), I may have to do it myself, as unfortunate as that sounds like to the naturally-lazy me.

Loops? No, those really are useless.
Loops add an additional flare to the environment. If we're going to point them as useless, might as well call the ones in the original's useless too?
I remember in the Blitz Engine I would play with a Green Hill Zone level that came with the download. It was fun gaining enough speed and having a cool camera of going in a loop.
 
That's the thing. In the SRB2 scope of things, Slopes don't offer much of an improvement to gameplay, and loops would be as pointless as they are in the official 3D games.

In that case, loops are pointless in the 2D games. Make it so that you need speed to get around the loop or you take longer completing the stage.

I think the real reason no one wants loops in SRB2 - and let's be honest here - is that the map editor is terrible and no one wants to redo every map with loops.

SRB2's engine is 10+ years old, the map editor has NOT aged well(this is sorta of the same with Source). Adding loops would be hell for everyone still here.
 
Loops add an additional flare to the environment.
Bwahahahahahahaha. No.

If we're going to point them as useless, might as well call the ones in the original's useless too?
There's a difference between loops in 2D and loops in 3D. Unless you force the player onto a strict path (which we sure as hell want to avoid), he can just walk around them.

I remember in the Blitz Engine I would play with a Green Hill Zone level that came with the download. It was fun gaining enough speed and having a cool camera of going in a loop.
I don't think cool camera effects are a significant gameplay improvement, sorry. And the "gaining speed" part is done by slopes as well.

In that case, loops are pointless in the 2D games. Make it so that you need speed to get around the loop or you take longer completing the stage.
Still wouldn't sound very exciting to me. Option a) is pointless because you need speed to get through the loop as well. Option b) would make the implementation of the loop more balanced, but it wouldn't solve the problem that a loop in the middle of an open 3D environment looks awkward.

I think the real reason no one wants loops in SRB2 - and let's be honest here - is that the map editor is terrible and no one wants to redo every map with loops.

SRB2's engine is 10+ years old, the map editor has NOT aged well(this is sorta of the same with Source). Adding loops would be hell for everyone still here.
People have been making blocky loops with zoom tubes in SRB2 stages for ages. They take a while to make, but it's not that much of a hassle. The only reason nobody does it anymore is that these pseudo-loops were pointless and boring. Real loops would probably be even easier to implement because you wouldn't need a ton of stair sectors. I think SRB2CB comes with a test map that has something similar to a loop.

No, the real reason why nobody has implemented loops yet is that they're not good enough of a gimmick to go through the hassle of programming them. Slopes are an entirely different matter, but as Kalaron demonstrated, implementing those into SRB2 is frustrating enough in itself.
 
There's a difference between loops in 2D and loops in 3D. Unless you force the player onto a strict path (which we sure as hell want to avoid), he can just walk around them.

I never really thought about it, but that statement is so very true. Hm..assuming loops were implemented, would there be any way to make going through the loop beneficial so that the player wouldn't always want to skip them? Maybe if at the end/bottom of the loop there is breakable ground, but the ground won't break unless the player is going at speed that can only be achieved through entering the loop? Or perhaps have the loop end up higher than it initially started? That way it's a new method of getting up to a higher path. Are there any other ideas?

I know this isn't probably very relevant to SRB2, but it's sparked my interest.
 
There's a difference between loops in 2D and loops in 3D. Unless you force the player onto a strict path (which we sure as hell want to avoid), he can just walk around them.
So it's impossible to make the loop lead to an area that's faster if you have the speed for it, or force you to go on the loop, then continue with openness and exploration? It might look a bit awkward but there's no reason that the map maker - if he chooses to include slopes - should not be inclined to change the map's aesthetics around the slope in question.
 
Bwahahahahahahaha. No.
Eh, I disagree with you here.
There's a difference between loops in 2D and loops in 3D. Unless you force the player onto a strict path (which we sure as hell want to avoid), he can just walk around them.
That is if you just make the basic "loop". What if at the end of the loop there is a slope that moves upwards? Gaining enough speed could shoot you off to a higher area or let you skip a bottom area. There are also those loops that don't end at the same level at where it started, which means you could make it so the player goes higher when taking the "loop" path.
Ugh! All this talking about my ideas makes me more interested in becoming a mapper. I'll guess I'll finally try to make a map and even incorporate my slope ideas into them.

At the very least, loops could be useful for 2D. Even if you don't use them in the actual gameplay, it would look nice to see a loop in the background. (Similar to how Brawl has a loop backdrop)
 
There's a difference between loops in 2D and loops in 3D. Unless you force the player onto a strict path (which we sure as hell want to avoid), he can just walk around them.

Just throwing out a suggestion here, but what if a "loop" was used to create a long, tubular hallway in an Eggman factory or something, and there were rings on the ceiling that you could collect if you got enough momentum to zoom up the side of the wall? That would be an example of a gimmick that would both feel natural in 3D and would be impossible without loops.

A more general point might be that just because loops can't be used the same way in 3D as they can in 2D, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are useless for 3D purposes. Yes, a loop just standing there in the center of a field would be awkward, but not much more so than an FOF randomly placed above that same field. In fact, I'd say that a creative mapper could invent dozens of interesting uses for them.

Like FOFs, loops would simply be another basic tool for the creation of complex gimmicks; they wouldn't be the gimmick themselves, any more than the component FOFs of a setpiece are themselves setpieces.
 
Last edited:
Loops? In SRB2?

When they fix the camera and collision glitches then let's talk about loops.
 
One acronym: SRB2CB.

FAULT!

One word: COMMUNITY

DOUBLE FAULT!

The day the community does something for SRB2CB will probably never come, or be something so minor that it wont make much of a difference outside of allowing more support for those cold, soulless walking statues you call MD2s. Despite being an alleged community project, it was mostly Kalaron. Inu probably had some hand in it I bet (as he sometimes has a usually uncredited hand in most EXEs), and maybe JTE. I dunno. Possibly others, but I doubt anyone else will pick up this EXE and bring it to extraordinary heights.

Slopes was great, but without FOF slopes, I don't see too much use given how important to SRB2 FOFs are. Few people here know coding, and Kalaron has worked on SRB2CB since 1.09. The most I can see slopes done for are a few gimmicks and a great scenery boost. However, neither are enough to propel a mod.

SRB2CB had more features than those, sure, but I am not sure there's really anything outstanding amongst them.Slopes were the only real standout, and like I said, they don't work on FOFs anyway. As much as I hate to say it, I dont think SRB2CB will get much use. It'll probably go the way of SRB2Morphed; having tons of neat features but not enough to restrict wads to that mod.

tl;dr: srb2cb cant rely on the community, will probably barely get any wads and eventually die
 
I'm sorry, but this attitude really bugs me a lot. There is a bandwagon in this thread that "community" means "awesome people other than me will do it all for me". That's simply not the case.

Kalaron has a right to talk about community productivity and say it'll do things. He saw a problem that he wanted solved and instead of going onto the forums and posting the five-hundredth thread about how awesome slopes would be in SRB2, he went and put the blood, sweat and tears into actually making it a reality. While I think he's too optimistic on what the community can actually put out, he's clearly put in the investment necessary to talk big about community involvement because he is a textbook case of it.

However, all of the people cheerleading on the sidelines are starting to bug me. I've seen a rewording of the following a million times:
This thread and every similar thread before it said:
My, feature X would be cool. I'm too lazy to learn anything related to SRB2 editing, so can you do it?
Sure, not everyone has the time and patience to learn to code or to make levels for Doom, but I'd wager that 99% of the people whining like this have never even legitimately tried. While doing something on the scale of what Kalaron is doing recently isn't likely, editing the stages in the WAD to add slopes as a proof of concept test isn't exactly beyond the realm of even a beginner at SRB2 level editing.

The fact of the matter is that nobody is trying; they're just all waiting for someone in the nebulous "community" to do it.
 
Last edited:
The fact of the matter is that nobody is trying; they're just all waiting for someone in the nebulous "community" to do it.
Actually...
Ugh! All this talking about my ideas makes me more interested in becoming a mapper. I'll guess I'll finally try to make a map and even incorporate my slope ideas into them.
I won't learn mapping in one day though. I guess I'll start tomorrow and learn step by step until I know how to use Doom Builder.
 
OpenGL begets slopes begets models begets entire level redesign begets deciding it better to go true 3d begets rewriting gameplay code begets changing to a true 3d map format begets...hey, wow. It would have been quicker to start with a new engine and port the content!

Like Megaman 9 & 10, SRB2 styles itself after a videogame 'era', creating a belivability of the universe it resides. You don't expect to have slopes, 3d models, and full orchestral music in Megaman 9 & 10, now do you?

If you feel SRB2's content itself doesn't need to update with the times, then you're just going to end up with one big 'engine test' thing like every other joe schmoe out there (Sonic GDK, Ashura Dark Reign, Egg Engine, Blitz Sonic, Sonic Fan Remix, etc.). The idea was to make a GAME, not an ENGINE - and frankly, that's what has always put SRB2 above the rest. I've always considered the editing capabilities 2nd priority.

I believe what SSNTails says, I mean, it was his inspiration that begat this whole project! SRB2 is supposed to be based after the good old days when games were simple, easy, and awesome.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Who is viewing this thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Back
Top