SRB2 Message Board  

Go Back   SRB2 Message Board > Sonic Robo Blast 2 > SRB2 Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-17-2016   #1
Jerme
Default First time playing in years!

My last login was 06-20-2011..wow how time flies.
Anyways I've built a gaming PC and decided to re-download this for some fun.
First thing I've noticed about the new version was Techno Hill Zone, especially the polluted water.
https://wiki.srb2.org/wiki/Version_2.1#Techno_Hill_Zone

Any word on the developer's choice on the new mechanic? I always liked how careful I had to be not to drop in it, especially in act 1.
Jerme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2016   #2
toaster
トースタちゃん
 
toaster's Avatar
Default

Developer here! I wasn't around when this decision was being made, but I've gleaned from conversation the reasons as to why it was changed.
  • The old mechanic was extremely punishing. Falling in the liquid not only made you lose your rings, but it meant that if you didn't get a ring, get to a spring, or get to the edge of the pool by the time your damage timer ends, you would die. Considering the depth/width of some of the pools, that was a major issue.
  • Techno Hill Zone is only the second zone in the entire game. Punishing is reasonable for something towards the end of the level campaign - which it was before 2.x - but these days SRB2 has many more levels. We don't expect new players to be pro on only the second zone; they're still learning.
  • The new mechanic is unique. There's no upwards pushing slime in the old games, so it's a new experience. The closest relative would probably have to be Sonic CD's Wacky Workbenches, but even then it still allows you to go underneath the surface.
  • The new mechanic is fantastic for bonus items and alternate pathways. The nature of the gimmick allows us to do things like placing 1up Monitors, Emerald Tokens, or Emblems underneath the water and challenge the player to find a way to get down there, when "down" is usually the easiest direction to travel!

I hope this sates your appetite for developer commentary. c:
__________________
Quote:
<fickle> giant robo-hood that rips the map apart with her bare hands
shameless plug: please check out my sonic mania lego ideas project, it could become a real thing if yalls support it

Last edited by toaster; 07-17-2016 at 05:01 PM.
toaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2016   #3
Rob
Administrator
 
Rob's Avatar
Default

I want to expand a little bit on toaster's second point. It's largely accurate but I think that it bears just being a little more specific.

SRB2 is being developed with a specific difficulty curve in mind. You may notice that some levels are ridiculously harder than others (Going from RVZ1 to ERZ1, for example). That is by design. There are 2 planned zones between RVZ2 and ERZ1. So the difficulty curve will get fixed there at some point.

The reason this is relevant to THZ is that old THZ represented a massive difficulty spike on the difficulty curve. It introduces not one, but two concepts to players that are hazards. One is water. The other is pain liquids. The next zone, DSZ, merely has water as a hazard, and that stage is far easier and more forgiving to the player than THZ. Pain liquids are also reintroduced in RVZ and are roughly as challenging there as THZ, with the exception of added platforming.

This put THZ in a weird spot. It was way too difficult for where it was in rotation. The only options were to rework it, or put it somewhere else on the curve. This was a big debate for a while until someone (JTE I think) was fucking around with physics and came up with the goop. The goop idea was cute but we didn't really think much about it until it became apparent we HAD to do something about THZ. The goop solves our difficulty issues nicely because, while it's a liquid, it's presented in a very fun, non-hazardous state that the player can dick around with and explore.

Last edited by Rob; 07-18-2016 at 01:33 AM.
Rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2016   #4
Jerme
Default

Thanks for the explanations. I was initially a bit disappointed because I always liked the challenge, but found it weird that I can now traverse the surface with no punishment. But after reading your posts, it does make sense from a developer's view, introducing new mechanics slowly and getting more challenging. So it returns back in RVZ later in the game, I can get my challenge there then. Overall I can agree on decision.

Last edited by Jerme; 07-17-2016 at 08:47 PM.
Jerme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2016   #5
Prime 2.0
Grape flavored
Administrator
 
Prime 2.0's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerme View Post
Thanks for the explanations. I was initially a bit disappointed because I always liked the challenge, but found it weird that I can now traverse the surface with no punishment. But after reading your posts, it does make sense from a developer's view, introducing new mechanics slowly and getting more challenging. So it returns back in RVZ later in the game, I can get my challenge there then. Overall I can agree on decision.
Just like in version 2.0.x, Lava is solid to the player.
Spoiler:
Unlike version 2.0.x however, the lava is not solid to your rings. A fairly small change, but it's made lava into a fairly impressive hazard.
__________________
Science tells us that nothing can be proven, only rendered more likely to be true. If we do not question what we already know, how can we know, much less admit, when we're wrong? Such things are vital to progress.

Last edited by Prime 2.0; 07-17-2016 at 10:47 PM.
Prime 2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016   #6
JTE
 
JTE's Avatar
Default

I programmed the goop, yes, but it was at the specific request of Nev3r, who wanted to use it for the new THZ2. As a result, the new THZ1 we already had in progress (including all the new textures and most of the new geometry) was reworked to use the THZ2 goo, which is why there are lots of little goo-related bonuses in THZ1 but no hard walls that force you to go under it to get somewhere -- which further lends to the difficulty curve, letting THZ1 serve as a gentle introduction to the new mechanic in a way you might discover by accident rather than having it forced on you right away.
__________________
<Chimera> jte you're scaring me <Chimera> jte stop <Mystic> too much catnip

Last edited by JTE; 07-18-2016 at 03:24 AM.
JTE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016   #7
Jerme
Default

I see. Well I gotta thank you all for continuing this game for so long. I first discovered it in like...2005? I was just a kid and thought this was the most amazing thing ever, especially with the netplay integration. I'm really surprised it hasn't been abandoned. Like, one other fangame I've been waiting so long for ever since I was a kid back then as well, was a Starfox game, Shadows Of Lylat. I only discovered about a year go it ceased development due to lack of interest, so that was one childhood dream shot down for me, lol.
Jerme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2016   #8
Gemini Spark
The EX version
 
Gemini Spark's Avatar
Default

I figure this is probably a good place to bring up my small return into SRB2. I first found this game during its 1.09.4 days and played until about...2.0.4? So playing the game now in 2.1.15 (single player as Tails, the way it's meant to be played Kappa) gave quite a few surprises:

1) THZ's new goop mechanic being goop instead of damaging sludge was pretty cool, and the Buzzes actually buzzing is nice since now they can't sneak up on you from behind. (Also I was wondering if Detons were still a thing and OH MY GOSH THEY'RE STILL A THING!!! D8 )
2) The boss battles overall seem more difficult than they were before. DSZ3 and CEZ3 come to mind (if there is an ERZ3 now I haven't gotten to it because ERZ2 is a thing), especially CEZ3. I died a bunch during the first part and had to do a lot of trial and error for the second part, I was so relieved when I beat him.
3) RVZ1 actually has enemies now! I was a bit confused at first on how to deal with those spike balls they throw at you, but then I realized I could just sidestep them.
4) Having not played SRB2 for about 5-6 years I had to remember that ERZ is meant to kill you in the most creative ways.
5) Emerald minigames using NiGHTS mechanics is a nice touch.

I've yet to play in the multiplayer, though I suppose it's more difficult to find a server now than it was before, but having played some Overwatch I learned how to mouselook which I didn't do much before, so maybe that helps me for Match/CTF mode?
__________________
Visual Basic is the language of people who want to create stuff out of nothing and then point that stuff to nothing so that nothing gets done.
Java... well, it can make Coffee objects at a rate of order n, but I don't drink coffee... Eclipse ftw!
Gemini Spark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016   #9
Jerme
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini Spark View Post

I've yet to play in the multiplayer, though I suppose it's more difficult to find a server now than it was before, but having played some Overwatch I learned how to mouselook which I didn't do much before, so maybe that helps me for Match/CTF mode?
Ha, same exact for me! Back in the day, I used to play the VS modes in 3rd person and failed miserably... eventually tried first person and found that's how it really is meant to played. Welcome back as well, Overwatch is great.
Jerme is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.