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Amy (rosy.wad)
Version: amys, by Katmint Katmint is offline
Developer Last Online: Mar 2017

Category: Version: SRB2 Rating: (10 votes - 4.70 average)
Released: 04-25-2014 Last Update: 08-07-2014 Installs: 12
Characters Scripts

Based off sprites originally made by Chrispy, this version of Rosy has lua abilities loosely based on her gameplay in some of the official games.

The download now also contains a topdown version.

Spoiler: ability list
spin (standing or walking): hammer attack
spin (running): hammer leap
spin or jump in air: hammer air attack
custom1+jump: hammer jump
custom1+spin (on ground): slide
custom1+spin (in air): hammer drop

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File Type: zip rosy.zip (460.4 KB, 3501 views)

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Comments
Old 04-25-2014   #2
Charybdizs
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All applies to the original release, it has since been fixed and majorly improved. See later posts.
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Well, I can vouch for this being reasonably bug free and usable. It has a decent slew of good ideas, but I can't say it's actually fun to play as. I feel like you tried too hard to balance her, and in the process removed everything that would have made her fun.

  1. Firstly, she accelerates way, way too slowly. I understand she's a slow character and all, but this makes her feel more like a semi-truck than a dainty hedgehog. This is all exacerbated underwater.
  2. Secondly, her peelout makes no real sense to me. Charging it doesn't seem to affect its performance as far as I can tell. In addition to that, you're given invincibility frames during it but can't strafe OR jump? For a skill that is so important to getting anywhere fast with rosy, why those nerfs?
  3. Thirdly, her hammer jump. Why is it usable when you are either standing still or going top speed, but not in between? That confuses me, and it screwed up a lot of the times I tried to actually use the skill to my advantage. As if it wasn't hard enough to use already, it completely locks not only your movement, but also the camera? Sonic's thok doesn't even do that.
  4. Fourthly, why would I have any interest in wasting my hard earned speed on the Hammer Leap, when it slows me back to half speed when I hit the ground? And as for air drill, though it feels awesome to smack crawlas with it and go sky high, it suffers from the same annoying control lock that hammer jump is. I dare you, hammer drill into some THZ goop and see how frustrating it is to wait for her to bob in and out and in and out until she finally surfaces. I'm not sure, but I think her bad recovery from it could potentially get her stuck in things like wind currents? I'd have to try that out.
  5. I never really felt this with any character except rosy, but I honestly had to d a double take when I walked up to a crawla for the first time. I caught myself before I jumped on it, because that wouldn't work. So what were my options? I could stop and hammer, which would make me lose my speed. I could jump over it and hammer drill, but that would send me up out of control. If I was going at full speed I could hammer leap, but I wasn't, and even that would have given me a speed penalty. See the dilemma? She has no real efficient way to pop badniks, which is a real problem.

    Lastly, not that this really matters, but I was hoping she'd use the lovable and spammable "WAH!" hammer jump sound effect from Sonic Adventure, and was a tad disappointed when she didn't. That's just my opinion though. :p

    All the same, this is no reason not to move it to releases. I hope you do fix some of these rough edges though.

Last edited by Charybdizs; 04-29-2014 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 04-25-2014   #3
ManicTH14
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I like the great use of Rosy's lua, I feel this may be one of the best wads I've used since the 2.1 release thus far, keep up the great work.
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Old 04-25-2014   #4
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This is a nice character but I think that a lot of the moves could be moved to 1 custom action key.

Normal Hammer Attack
This should be used when not moving. I don't know why she jumps while doing that but it's ok. This would be a great air move if it's like the spin in sadx. Now if she could only break walls with it.

Hammer Spin
This would be nice if you could use it while walking, maybe make it like the spindash, exept that you can hold it down to continue to spin at the cost of deaccelerating.

Hammer Jump
This is the perfect hammer move when running, but I don't know why you locked the camera while doing that.

Super Peelout
I don't know how fitting this is for amy, but I guess it's ok. Maybe make her not invincible while using it ? And why does she float the first few frames while doing that ?

If you moved all of the Hammer Attacks to one button you would have space for the slide on the lua buttons. I think it should be moved to custom 2 and changed a bit so that it slides more and doesn't deaccelerate that fast(it's almost difficult to get out of GFZ1), new sprites for the sliding would also be nice.

What happened to the whirlwind shield ? She can't use it ?

The sprites are well made, exept for that middle spike. It doesn't have that much shading, so it doesn't even look like it exists. Other than that the wad is great and fun to play as.

Last edited by r543; 04-25-2014 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 04-25-2014   #5
MightyandRay
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First off, I'm glad to see Rosy back in action for 2.1. I love her new Lua abilities but...
  • Firstly, her Hammer spin is only useful 2-3 second after the press of the button, which makes bosses a beast. No kidding, GFZ3 was murder. Perhaps you could make it so it starts when you press the button and then end after 2-3 rotations of sprites.
  • Secondly, her Hammer jump (the running one) needs more air control. In fact, the character all together is a terror to maneuver in the air, which, for a platformer, is not good.
  • Thirdly, her Super Peel-out is to overpowered. My suggestion is to a.)remove the invincibility frames b.)remove the hovering effect c.) make it needed to charge it up in order to make it faster (like a spindash) and d.)allow jumping while performing the technique.
  • And finally, she seems unable to transform into super form through the double jump, but through grabbing an Armageddon shield and setting it off. Also, any Whirlwind shields she gets turn into Pity shields.
So, it would be great if you read this Katmint, because as she is now, she made me ragequit on the first boss. And I have not ragequit before so quickly. Thanks for reading!

Last edited by MightyandRay; 04-25-2014 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 04-25-2014   #6
Katmint
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Quick update.
-Acceleration increased
-Removed angle lock on hammer jump
-Hammer jump is now always usable when on the ground
-Hammer leap speed reduction removed
-Hammer drill horizontal speed increased

Quote:
Originally Posted by r543 View Post
Now if she could only break walls with it.

What happened to the whirlwind shield ? She can't use it ?

The sprites are well made, exept for that middle spike..
She can break walls with any of her hammer attacks. Try holding forward while using the normal attack to make sure you're actually touching the wall.

The whirlwind shield doesn't get along with Rosy's jump so she gets a basic shield instead.

There is no middle spike. Chrispy based the sprites off this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyandRay View Post
  • Firstly, her Hammer spin is only useful 2-3 second after the press of the button, which makes bosses a beast. No kidding, GFZ3 was murder. Perhaps you could make it so it starts when you press the button and then end after 2-3 rotations of sprites.
  • Secondly, her Hammer jump (the running one) needs more air control. In fact, the character all together is a terror to maneuver in the air, which, for a platformer, is not good.
  • Thirdly, her Super Peel-out is to overpowered. My suggestion is to a.)remove the invincibility frames b.)remove the hovering effect c.) make it needed to charge it up in order to make it faster (like a spindash) and d.)allow jumping while performing the technique.
  • And finally, she seems unable to transform into super form.
If I made every frame of the animation spin, it wouldn't act like a hammer. I'd like to fix the bosses being a nightmare though but it may not be possible. Blame P_RadiusAttack not working on bosses.

Hammer jump is more controllable as of this update.

The peelout's jump is disabled because it would conflict with her float. The float is just there because I added it while messing around and everyone who I showed it to told me to keep it. Also, how is it overpowered? Sonic's thok is way stronger than the peelout could ever hope to be.

Spin in midair will turn her super in multiplayer. I forgot to add that to the first post.

Last edited by Katmint; 04-25-2014 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 04-25-2014   #7
MightyandRay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katmint View Post
Quick update.
-Acceleration increased
-Removed angle lock on hammer jump
-Hammer jump is now always usable when on the ground
-Hammer leap speed reduction removed
-Hammer drill horizontal speed increased

She can break walls with any of her hammer attacks. Try holding forward while using the normal attack to make sure you're actually touching the wall.

The whirlwind shield doesn't get along with Rosy's jump so she gets a basic shield instead.

There is no middle spike. Chrispy based the sprites off this.

If I made every frame of the animation spin, it wouldn't act like a hammer. I'd like to fix the bosses being a nightmare though but it may not be possible. Blame P_RadiusAttack not working on bosses.

Hammer jump is more controllable as of this update.

The peelout's jump is disabled because it would conflict with her float. The float is just there because I added it while messing around and everyone who I showed it to told me to keep it. Also, how is it overpowered? Sonic's thok is way stronger than the peelout could ever hope to be.

Spin in midair will turn her super in multiplayer. I forgot to add that to the first post.
The Hammer is supposed to supplement the jump, which means it should be like the spin jump, except it requires a second button press. The delay is unnecessary. I tried to go super with the spin, but it only works if you have the Armageddon shield. As for the Peel-out, the invincibility factor is what makes it overpowered, like Jet's boost. That's about it for now.
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Old 04-25-2014   #8
Katmint
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The delay is necessary right now to prevent an inconsistency with the hammer animations. If I had proper, separate sprites for the midair hammer attack I'd have made it work like you said in the first place. MotorRoach has offered to sprite new animations for her but for now I'm stuck with what I have from the original wad.

Rosy's peelout and Jet's boost are very different. The peelout already has a lot of drawbacks and it can't actually destroy any enemies.

As for the super, you can't transform with a shield. This applies to all characters and includes the basic shield you start with.

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Old 04-25-2014   #9
MightyandRay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katmint View Post
The delay is necessary right now to prevent an inconsistency with the hammer animations. If I had proper, separate sprites for the midair hammer attack I'd have made it work like you said in the first place. MotorRoach has offered to sprite new animations for her but for now I'm stuck with what I have from the original wad.

Rosy's peelout and Jet's boost are very different. The peelout already has a lot of drawbacks and it can't actually destroy any enemies.

As for the super, you can't transform with a shield. This applies to all characters and includes the basic shield you start with.

Ok, thanks, now to bother MotorRoach for those sprites ;)
EDIT: Actually, the jump+spin combo bypasses the shield in super transformation.
F.Y.I. Maybe I should be your tester for this :) just saying...

Last edited by MightyandRay; 04-25-2014 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 04-25-2014   #10
BlueBlurForever
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Rosy's Peelout is pretty damn fun.
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Old 04-25-2014   #11
CobaltBW
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Stat-wise, I think Rosy could do with a lot more acceleration and less top speed. This gets her away from the momentum-based physics and puts full focus on the use of her utility belt for mobility. Additionally, DSZ won't feel like she's running through molasses. One thing that's also worth noting is that Rosy's jump height is completely static, you can't tap the button to do small jumps. I don't know if this is intentional, but I don't like it; change that if you can.

The basic hammer ability is a chore to use. Its hitbox is pretty small, the hammer isn't out for very long, and the delay causes it to require a lot of timing precision in order to hit any of the bosses. GFZ3 took forever for me to beat on my first try. I would either increase the size of the hitbox, the longevity of the hitbox lifetime, or reduce/remove the delay, because otherwise this is borderline unusable for anything other than killing spring turtles and ring monitors.

The hammer jump feels great, but you should reduce the cooldown time for reuse. It's not that safe of an ability, so it doesn't need the extra wait time. Also, add some sort of check for water so that it doesn't launch Amy five stories into the air when she's submerged. Right now the only reason Amy doesn't suck in DSZ with her current stats is because her hammer jump breaks the everliving shit out of underwater segments.

The spin drop is functionally very sound; you can cancel out of it with the hammer attack if you get stuck, which is an incredibly important failsafe, and the ability itself is useful for dropping down on slime, homing in on enemies, and fast falling onto other areas if you're in a hurry; there's probably more applications I didn't list. If you wanted to increase its utility further, currently the spindrop doesn't allow the player to change Rosy's momentum, so it's very stiff and unsafe if used incorrectly. I personally think it's a good ability already, but if you wanted to change that specifically, you could and I don't think it would be a balance issue.

I don't understand what you were going for with the dash, but I would drop its current mechanics entirely. It's super cheesy and doesn't make any sense. All Rosy needs is a method of travelling fast; if you just make it activate a temporary max speed increase, it will be fine.

The slide only activates when Rosy is moving, and the dash only activates when Rosy is standing still... so why aren't they tied to a single key?



You've got a great thing going here, but the toolset still needs a lot of polish. Fix the above and you'll be golden.
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Old 04-25-2014   #12
Katmint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyandRay View Post
Actually, the jump+spin combo bypasses the shield in super transformation.
I forgot to add a shield check to the super transformation code. It will be fixed next update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Warrior View Post
The slide only activates when Rosy is moving, and the dash only activates when Rosy is standing still... so why aren't they tied to a single key?
It's a leftover from my several attempts to add a crouch in. I'll move the key to spin next update.

I'm currently splicing together an awkward placeholder animation to use for the midair hammer jump because it will fix a lot of Rosy's issues with hitting stuff.

Also, I'm considering changing Rosy's peelout to have the invincibility and/or float be a benefit of the basic shield. Since she can't use whirlwind it'd fix the useless shield issue while also being a middle ground to all the conflicting opinions about the peelout.
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Old 04-26-2014   #13
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I think this is an AWESOME wad. But I found a little glitch while I was (SPAMMING) using the Peel-out.

Geez, Rosy! You can stop running.

[insert a gotta go fast joke here]
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Old 04-26-2014   #14
CobaltBW
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"everyday i'm shuffling"

also here's another problem:



I can't move myself in these roll frames, so I'm stuck here.
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Old 04-26-2014   #15
Goldenhog
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So I decided to simplify her control scheme. And change her balancing while I was at it too. Attached to this post is a modified version of this Rosy WAD. Here's a list of what I did:
  • First of all, I removed her Hover Peelout. When did Amy have anything like that in any the games?
  • With the Spin key free, I moved her Slide from Toss Flag to Spin. It's the only change it received.
  • And with the Toss Flag key free, I moved her Hammer Jump there. Again, no other changes other than that.
  • I took the Hammer Attack, the Hammer Leap and the Hammer Drill into a single button: Custom Action 1. Push it when going REALLY slowly or standing still, you'll do the normal Hammer Attack. Push it when going actually fast and you'll Hammer Leap. And push it in midair to do the Hammer Drill. I don't understand why you thought spreading it all like that was a good idea.
  • I reduced the delay for using the hammer for attacking. That long-ass delay got really annoying really fast, especially when trying to go fast and drilling through enemies.
  • I made it so that she can Hammer Drill when Hammer Jumping. It makes platforming and boss fighting a lot better.
  • Rearranged the code. It was all over the place.
  • Added some comments here and there. Makes reading the code a lot easier.
Even if you decide against using anything from this version, at least reduce the delay for the hammer. Please.

Moderator Notice:
This is not your release or topic. This is not marked reuseable content. Why did you think uploading here was a good idea?

(Goldenhog received a warning for this post: Don't upload modifications of other peoples' work without permission.)

Last edited by Prime 2.0; 04-26-2014 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 04-26-2014   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenhog View Post
  • First of all, I removed her Hover Peelout. When did Amy have anything like that in any the games?
Well, I personally find it kind of efficient for her. Specially because her air mobility is almost none in this.

One big improvement is that her abilities aren't all over the button layout now, but it feels weird to play as her at the moment without the peelout in general.

Last edited by MotorRoach; 04-26-2014 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 04-26-2014   #17
CobaltBW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenhog View Post
So I decided to simplify her control scheme. And change her balancing while I was at it too. Attached to this post is a modified version of this Rosy WAD. Here's a list of what I did:
  • First of all, I removed her Hover Peelout. When did Amy have anything like that in any the games?
  • With the Spin key free, I moved her Slide from Toss Flag to Spin. It's the only change it received.
  • And with the Toss Flag key free, I moved her Hammer Jump there. Again, no other changes other than that.
  • I took the Hammer Attack, the Hammer Leap and the Hammer Drill into a single button: Custom Action 1. Push it when going REALLY slowly or standing still, you'll do the normal Hammer Attack. Push it when going actually fast and you'll Hammer Leap. And push it in midair to do the Hammer Drill. I don't understand why you thought spreading it all like that was a good idea.
  • I reduced the delay for using the hammer for attacking. That long-ass delay got really annoying really fast, especially when trying to go fast and drilling through enemies.
  • I made it so that she can Hammer Drill when Hammer Jumping. It makes platforming and boss fighting a lot better.
  • Rearranged the code. It was all over the place.
  • Added some comments here and there. Makes reading the code a lot easier.
Even if you decide against using anything from this version, at least reduce the delay for the hammer. Please.
The good:
* Reduced delays
* No cheesedash
* slide on spindash button
* Basic hammer attack and running hammer attack are bound to the same key. Flows much better.

The bad:
* No dash at all hurts the flow of the control scheme. The dash needs to be changed obviously, but tie that and slide to the spindash.
* Tying fastfall and basic attack to the same key is a big no-no. Rosy needs the option to have a regular midair attack. What you could do is keep the running hammer attack on custom1, then tie the hammer jump and hammer fastfall to the same key. Readjust the delay though, so players don't accidentally fastfall right after a hammer jump.
* Toss flag is an ugly key for anything to be bound to, just keep it on custom2.


I am currently messing with the code myself. I would recommend these stats to make Rosy's movement feel more appropriate:

Code:
normalspeed = 25
runspeed = 20
thrustfactor = 4
accelstart = 200
acceleration = 50
The running hammer will have to be adjusted so that it still works at Rosy's max speed.
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Old 04-26-2014   #18
Goldenhog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Warrior View Post
The bad:
* No dash at all hurts the flow of the control scheme. The dash needs to be changed obviously, but tie that and slide to the spindash.
Why not make it a regular Peel-Out? No invincibility, no gravity shenanigans, just charge it up and there you go. I'll mess with the code some more, see if I can make this work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Warrior View Post
* Tying fastfall and basic attack to the same key is a big no-no. Rosy needs the option to have a regular midair attack. What you could do is keep the running hammer attack on custom1, then tie the hammer jump and hammer fastfall to the same key. Readjust the delay though, so players don't accidentally fastfall right after a hammer jump.
I did it because I find the Hammer Jump is totally useless and stupid in midair. But yeah, I'll follow your advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Warrior View Post
* Toss flag is an ugly key for anything to be bound to, just keep it on custom2.
Everyone else was doing it, I just wanted to be part of the winning team D:

(just joking, I'll change that)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Warrior View Post
I am currently messing with the code myself. I would recommend these stats to make Rosy's movement feel more appropriate:

Code:
normalspeed = 25
runspeed = 20
thrustfactor = 4
accelstart = 200
acceleration = 50
The running hammer will have to be adjusted so that it still works at Rosy's max speed.
Isn't a maxspeed of 25 a bit too low? How fast can Tails run? 32, right? Then her maxspeed should be 30 or 28. Gonna give a test run of the other stats you got there though.
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Old 04-26-2014   #19
CobaltBW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenhog View Post
Why not make it a regular Peel-Out? No invincibility, no gravity shenanigans, just charge it up and there you go. I'll mess with the code some more, see if I can make this work.
Sounds good.


Quote:
Isn't a maxspeed of 25 a bit too low? How fast can Tails run? 32, right? Then her maxspeed should be 30 or 28. Gonna give a test run of the other stats you got there though.
To my knowledge Amy's speed was also the slowest in Advance and Adventure. I've only tested it a little bit, but it seems to work fine. Mess with it to see what works for you. The important parts are the acceleration and thrust factor, which seem to be in a good spot with my adjustments.



EDIT: Also the basic hammer attack is totally useless, but it needs to be fixed rather than fazed out. I'm looking into possible fixes for this.
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Last edited by CobaltBW; 04-26-2014 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 04-26-2014   #20
Puppyfaic
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Maybe pull an Adventure and have the basic attack cause a shockwave around the point of impact? That's what Amy's hammer did in Adventure.
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