Elemental Shield vs. Water and Fire

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I think the elemental shield is good, but I think there should better be 2 shields:

Offensive Shield: Makes you ringsling faster, make fire trails and damage people on contact, but disappears upon contact with fire, water, slime, electricity, or being shot.

Deffensive Shield: You run slower, but you are resistant to all elements and takes 2 shots to be taken out.
 
You know, before reading Mystic's post, I was a pretty strong supporter of splitting up the Elemental Shield (out of curiosity, was it my post in Suggestions that got this whole ball rolling in the first place?). But now I'm really starting to see the superiority of the current system.

I was thinking more in terms of Single Player when I decried the merging of water and fire powers, and while I still argue that purely from the standpoint of SP stages, it would allow for more strategic options for the designer to have Inferno and Liquid Shields back, it didn't occur to me that shields in Multiplayer stages that would be totally useless in a given situation would simply sit there gathering dust, and stifle powerup collection. It now seems to me that what has been lost in Single Player has been more than made up for in strategic possibilities in netgames.

In netgames, by the way, I actually tend to avoid the Attraction Shield in favor of the Elemental Shield and Force Shield. That's because my strategy is to collect weapons and emeralds as much as I can, and increased ring gathering abilities aren't in the interests of that strategy nearly as much as increased ability to hold onto the items, or the ability to search underwater sections from top to bottom without having to pause for air. The Whirlwind Shield I also avoid, because I find it too weak for my Multiplayer interests. The Armageddon Shield may be super-powerful in netgames, but I can never seem to set up the perfect opportunity for a multi-opponent nuke, so I don't value it much either.
 
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Why don't we split up the elimental shield for Single Player and Coop, but keep it all in one for match, ctf, etc?
 
Consistency.

We are not going to set things up so that there's massive differences between singleplayer and multiplayer with regards to something as integral as shield types. It's either split up everywhere, or combined everywhere.
 
I would't call that a massive difference, but your most likely right. Well then I say just keep all three, and for online games make it a server's choice, 1 shield or 2. As for in 1 player im not sure.
 
Titanium said:
This is the main reason why I don't like the fact that you can't go Super with a shield on. Doesn't help that it may lead to your emerald collecting efforts being a waste.
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Not true at all. I know myself that I think this might be offtopic, but see, there is one fault in that statement.

As someone kindly pointed out, the fact that you have all 7 emeralds will mean that they -don't- want to shoot you because they's be screwed. Which means you're clear of any harmful attacks to your person, making you technically the one who is going to probably win that match. With that in mind, if someone is dumb enough to shoot you, then you can always go Super and kick their sorry butts in match.
 
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I would always shoot a person with 7 emeralds, and then de-super them quickly. If you let them alone, they will be guaranteed to win.
 
Sonnarkku said:
I think the elemental shield is good, but I think there should better be 2 shields:

Offensive Shield: Makes you ringsling faster, make fire trails and damage people on contact, but disappears upon contact with fire, water, slime, electricity, or being shot.

Deffensive Shield: You run slower, but you are resistant to all elements and takes 2 shots to be taken out.
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That bit was what caught me...

The increase ringslinging speed should just stay for Knuckles. I mean sure, new shields sound pretty cool if the abilities stand out from others like Armageddon to Electricity, but the idea of making one where all characters gain Knuckles ability sounds overpowering. The Defensive sounds slightly overpowered as well.

I'm just saying, I don't want to sound like I'm picking a fight. I just think that the idea might become to game breaking in-game when compared to other shields during a match or CTF netgame...

I don't have much to say on the Water & Fire vs. Elemental Subject as of now...
 
If I recall, they went back to the Elemental to simplify the code a bit (now water (or slime) and lava (or fire) damage are one and the same) and to make space for the Force Shield. This way it gets less cluttered up and confusing, although I -DO- agree the Elemental is sometimes cheap as heck, and the force shield being able to get confused for the old Water shield. Even so, the Force shield can be really awesome sometimes. Get hit at a very close range and the ring will reflect and smack your opponent right in their face just afterwards.

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Eliwood said:
The fact that you have all 7 emeralds will mean that they -don't- want to shoot you because they'll be screwed.
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That, and you can protect your Chaos Emeralds if you don't have all of them, specially with a Force shield.
 
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Monochrome said:
If I recall, they went back to the Elemental to simplify the code a bit (now water (or slime) and lava (or fire) damage are one and the same)
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That is as far from the truth as you can get. Slime damage makes a water block only hurt you if you're deep enough in it, while fire damage makes the top solid. Also, if you're still confusing the Force Shield for the old Liquid Shield, you are doing something wrong.
 
I have only this to say: If they were separate, it would be harder to make fire-and-water stages. There happens to be a CTF stage in the contest like that, for the record.
 
AndyMan123 said:
I have only this to say: If they were separate, it would be harder to make fire-and-water stages. There happens to be a CTF stage in the contest like that, for the record.
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That level uses water damage both for the lava and the water, so that wouldn't be a problem.

Monster Iestyn said:
...what that sector special needs it's own sound effect for when you are hurt by it, just like with spike damage.
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Electrical damage is not as useless as it might seem. It's useful for hurting floors for example, or liquids that hurt on contact but aren't solid.
 
SpiritCrusher said:
Electrical damage is not as useless as it might seem. It's useful for hurting floors for example, or liquids that hurt on contact but aren't solid.
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And then the console reads "Player was electrocuted!"

If we only have a single elemental shield, we should only have a single elemental damage. Special properties added to water blocks should have NEVER been hardcoded based on damage type. It just makes for inconsistency and confusion.
 
Neo Chaotikal said:
And then the console reads "Player was electrocuted!"

If we only have a single elemental shield, we should only have a single elemental damage. Special properties added to water blocks should have NEVER been hardcoded based on damage type. It just makes for inconsistency and confusion.
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I'm sorry, but that's just simply not true, no matter how much elemental protection we lump into one shield. Each sector special behaves differently. You can wade safely in water FOFs with water damage, but you get hurt if you are submerged in them. Water FOFs with fire damage hurt you on contact, but are solid from the top and bottom and intangible from the sides. Water FOFs with electrical damage hurt you on contact and are intangible.

I actually agree there should be a special sound for electrical damage. It would enable players to know immediately how they were hurt, seeing as electrical damage is not always used in a manner quite so self-explanatory as water damage or fire damage.
 
Neo Chaotikal said:
The fact that you can't go Super with a shield is actually a great way to rickroll someone in Match. Simply don't shoot at them and they can't do anything about it. The only way for them to let go of a shield is via a stage hazard (slime/lava/laser), or picking up a different shield which can be discarded by other means (attraction in water, armageddon by pressing spin). Seeing a player with all the emeralds running around with an Elemental Shield without anything that can hurt him is one of the funniest things I have ever witnessed in SRB2 match.
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Or a smart player can just say "Hey, I'm INVINCIBLE" and shoot up everyone till someone finally hits them. Runaway players are easy rail targets.

Neo Chaotikal said:
As for the shield argument itself, the only problem I have, apart from the mismatching red flames coming from a green shield, is the fact that we still have separate fire, water and electric damage. With the weird changes fire and water damage do to water blocks (solid on top; only hurts when submerged), I can understand why a level designer would pick one over the other, but nobody ever uses electrical damage because it's completely useless.
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Obituaries. Hell, this is part of why I'm waiting for the Ice damage tag: Ice water isn't nasty goop damnit (even though Ice water is a pretty lousy gimmick, though an Ice damage tag would be nice for enemies and turning corpses into ice sculptures like Hexen/ZDoom). Speaking of, where's our SOCcable obituaries?
 
D00D64 said:
Obituaries. Hell, this is part of why I'm waiting for the Ice damage tag: Ice water isn't nasty goop damnit (even though Ice water is a pretty lousy gimmick, though an Ice damage tag would be nice for enemies and turning corpses into ice sculptures like Hexen/ZDoom). Speaking of, where's our SOCcable obituaries?
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"Icy water" is the single most stupid hazard ever made up and I still hate Mystic for making it spread to almost every single ice-themed level (the fact that in vanilla SRB2 there is both one with water that hurts you and one with water that's harmless doesn't help).

SpiritCrusher said:
That would make things more complicated for no good reason.
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Right, because using a completely distanced sector effect (which I might again remind, has only this effect on water blocks and water blocks alone) makes a whole lot fucking sense. That's like saying if you put ECVINES as an FOF's flat, then its planes become intangible.

EDIT: If the relative obscureness of linedef flags is your problem, then by all means just have separate "Slime Blocks" and "Lava Blocks".
 
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