Concerning the "Rail Ring"

lol no, not really.
Tails, even with just red rings present, is a sitting duck among Sonic and Knuckles players no matter what. He has the slowest acceleration, top speed, and his ability doesn't help propel him forward to evade decently like S&K. His flying isn't helpful at all and if anything just draws attention to him from everyone in the server, he's pretty much free points. In fact, flying is more risky than climbing in match mode; when you do so you're usually trying to skip giant gaps and pits, get shot down, and either die from the death pit as a result or fall into the hands of the glorious thok-mob.

-generic statement about skilled Tails player can win here-
Yes, but pit this skilled Tails player against any skilled Sonic or Knuckles player and they lose by default.

I really haven't had any problems playing as Tails only that if your Tails and the other player is using rail rings then that means you are a goner.Another ring that really messes him up badly are the explosion rings.

Infinity said:

There is always a way to counter the rail ring players.And like mentioned before if rail rings wouldn't have existed Tails would be kinda op.

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Sure, Tails would be overpowered when in order to fly you have to constantly mash the jump button, while also aiming and strafing to find your opponent when the software render is better off when you're moving horizontally and not vertically. Sure, Tails has to land because he can't fly forever and when landing he is extremely open and allows for easy shots from any ring so long as you know where he's going. And unlike Knuckles and Sonic, the former is a sporadic maniac that can hardly be predicted when in the air bombing you like an jet plane, and the latter moves as fast as the rings you shoot with the double press of the jump button.

But sure, Tails would definitely be overpowered without rail, sure.

Well if you put it that way of course hes underpowered.Knuckles is annoying to go against with any character and Sonic is a different story.

Don't forget controller players. Thanks to the lack of proper analog controls it's really difficult to use Ring weapons from a distance in general.

That's why no one should use the controller at all in match... This isn't Call of Sonic: Ring Warfare 2, It's Doom.

Iceman dude I gotta see you play online lol. Cause I'd be really flippin' impressed if you could hit a strafe flying Tails shooting bombs at you just by shooting random rings. Unless the Tails player is flying like 2 feet in front of you, I don't even see how that's possible. I'm sitting here trying to imagine hitting a strafe flying Tails in nimbus while he's speeding away from me while tossing bombs at me on the little platforms just by throwing red rings at him #srb2god
Also, side note, flying is more risky than climbing? If you wanna talk about sitting ducks, try climbing up a wall with Knuckles in any ring toss multiplayer mode. That is most definitely the slowest motion in the game and a good way to get yourself blasted. That moment when you realize not only can you not see jack while climbing walls, but you couldn't even defend yourself even if you could lol, just free points. No matter how fast Sonic thoks, the ground will always be his achilles' heel:he can't fly. This fact makes it very easy to plan against him, since his movement will be limited to the ground. Basically without the rail this would be Tails Robo Blast 2, and even now there are lots of Tails players that are truly difficult to play against with Sonic.

Chrome said:

Sure, Tails would be overpowered when in order to fly you have to constantly mash the jump button, while also aiming and strafing to find your opponent when the software render is better off when you're moving horizontally and not vertically. Sure, Tails has to land because he can't fly forever and when landing he is extremely open and allows for easy shots from any ring so long as you know where he's going. And unlike Knuckles and Sonic, the former is a sporadic maniac that can hardly be predicted when in the air bombing you like an jet plane, and the latter moves as fast as the rings you shoot with the double press of the jump button.

But sure, Tails would definitely be overpowered without rail, sure.

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Most Tails players have some idea of where they're going to land in case something goes wrong. If Tails is attacking you from the sky in Cloud Palace, then goes to the roof before he gets tired, what can Sonic do? Thoking around like a mad man isn't going to help him, no matter how much the player mashes. And good luck to any jet plane that wants to take on Tails in an aerial battle, I salute you. Tails typically has infinite chances to come back w/o being harmed, whereas Sonic is always at risk, always in some type of danger, which is the whole reason SRB2 players adapted to thok spamming and hectic gameplay, because Sonic would be toast without it. As for Knuckles, it's up to the player how to use him, but his firing rate is enough for him to hang with Sonic and Tails. For these reasons, I think the gameplay mechanics that we find annoying at times is all in place for good reason, and ultimately it's up to the player to decide which character's strengths and weaknesses suit their style of gameplay.

Strafe fly has always been a glitch, as well as flying faster that the top flying speed IIRC. This would mean that Tails' flight slows him down tremendously if the glitches weren't around.

Furthermore, while a strafe flying Tails, or a Tails flying high into the sky may be hard to hit, they also won't be hitting many other people to get points or help the team. This is because firstly in software players cannot aim completely downwards, and secondly, hitting people from the air is much more of a challenge anyway. You're always moving slightly so you can't control where you're aiming as well, and players on the ground are moving much faster across the screen when you're looking down because they're generally moving further in both directions instead of just across the X axis.

So, unless you have explosions that you can spam, most of the time which are already taken by the faster characters so that you cannot get to them, or can aim a rail at targets moving collectively faster across the screen. Shooting from the air is almost never ideal.

In 2.1, its not only been said that Knuckles can just see himself while climbing now in first person mode (it zooms out.), but that Tails' flight has been modified to play like Sonic 3 and strafe fly has been removed in the trunk builds for ages because bug abusing is stupid.

Another thing 21kHzBANK21kHz hilariously neglects in his post is how predictable flight is. You know where Tails is landing and just send a bomb ring in the general direction of that spot, no matter if he lands on a higher platform than you can reach or not, he's finished.

I shall place my ten cents into this thread. In all honesty, over the years I've been around Sonic Robo Blast 2. I've seen such a wide crowd of people complaining over two weapons in this game. (Or in other cases "Mostly two weapons") Is the Rails, and the Bombs.

Now, now. Before I continue down along this post. I do mind other people opinions. To each and their own.

Now to continue. This whole debate on the fact this whole Rails get go is just sometimes just way overly argue. So to be quite honest, I play as all 3 characters by the way, so I feel how everyone else feels when they get bombarded by a huge amount of rails coming at your way.

And in all honesty, I don't mind this. Really I don't. I just don't get all the fuss about why people get so mad over Tails being the "under powered" character in this game. Yes he is sure challenging use in a game of Capture The Flag or Match. I have to admit though. Tails does need something special like Knuckles does. I could totally see Tails having some faster fire power like Knuckles does, that be neat for him. Because in all, flying honestly does not save him, Not one bit. Yes strafe flying is helpful, but at the same time. It is a glitch, and it is being removed.

But lets go back to where this topic was really about, and that was Rails. Rails is honestly, not that over powered. I am not saying it takes this so called "Skill" as others would says, When really it does not. Its just like any other game. Each game has a weapon that is strong. Look at all kind of games for example. Most games will have those instant shoot weapons that reach one side of the map to the other. Some games has Sniper Rifles that can reach one end of the map to the other. And it just makes the other players have a hard time as well. Yet I don't see as much people complaining over it. Hell, there are games that has weapons that will kill you in one shot. And it does not get as much complaining as a damn Rail weapon does. I don't get it. I honestly don't get it. I mean we should all think about what we got right now, no zoom on the rails. You realize how terrible that would be if rails on this game could zoom. That be just a bit to much on everyone. And plus it takes a few seconds before you can shoot another rail. This gives the other player perfect amount of time to send a scatter or two directly at the player who others would like to say "Sonic" since he seems to be the most hated for his thok.

What I am trying to say is, this game needs this weapon. It balance the gameplay. It allows snipers in this game that we need to dodge when we are either thoking. climbing (And gliding) or flying. I mean, I've been railed plenty of times. And never really cared either. Of course unless you got one of those players who purposely aim at you constantly to take you down can get overboard.

Anyway, I don't think I got anything else to say. Besides the fact that this whole complaining about Rails topic. Is just kinda pathetic to me.

But everyone has a opinions.

sryder13 said:

Strafe fly has always been a glitch, as well as flying faster that the top flying speed IIRC. This would mean that Tails' flight slows him down tremendously if the glitches weren't around.

Furthermore, while a strafe flying Tails, or a Tails flying high into the sky may be hard to hit, they also won't be hitting many other people to get points or help the team. This is because firstly in software players cannot aim completely downwards, and secondly, hitting people from the air is much more of a challenge anyway. You're always moving slightly so you can't control where you're aiming as well, and players on the ground are moving much faster across the screen when you're looking down because they're generally moving further in both directions instead of just across the X axis.

So, unless you have explosions that you can spam, most of the time which are already taken by the faster characters so that you cannot get to them, or can aim a rail at targets moving collectively faster across the screen. Shooting from the air is almost never ideal.

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Even without strafe fly, a game without rails usually gives Tails the advantage. First of all, the grenade garbage is almost completely avoidable with Tails. While I agree that software mode's inability to point completely downwards can be stifling, a Tails player is, for the most part, not going to be pointing directly downwards at all, or in any one spot for that matter; they'll be pointing at an angle. Getting to bombs is usually 50/50 in this game. In Icicle Falls a Sonic player will more than likely grab it first(neglecting strafe fly), while in Twisted Terminal there's no way in heck Sonic is getting a bomb before Tails. It really just depends on their individual abilities, so the positioning of the weapons also factors in to the overall balance. SRB2DUDE(CHOPPER) posts pretty good examples of legit Tails gameplay. Check out the clip below for an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWIVRlbKU3A
(I am actually in this game; unfortunately I had no mouse at the time [I never learned to use mousepad, so I just played on keyboard] so many of my gameplay methods were gone, and it didn't help that there was over 200 ping considering distance but the point still stands.) Admittedly, he does use rails for a big part of the game, but there is still a reasonable amount of good bomb game in here (I recommend checking out part 2 as well). There are many more examples of good Tails play on his channel without much use of the rail ring. Tails players play like they know that it is next to impossible to hit them when they fly; even CHOPPER had trouble aiming at other Tails players as shown in the clip above (the rise and sink mixup in one part of the match made it pretty unpractical to shoot at one Tails player who was flying almost right in front of him). When a Sonic player panics, they thok. Likewise, when a Tails player panics, they fly. This is where lots of the rail hate comes from: panic-flying will not save you from rails. It might save you from redrings, autos, bounces, scatters, grenades, or even bombs, but once a player is dedicated to using a rail ring on you, flying is not going to help, and it can get annoying knowing this.

Iceman404 said:

In 2.1, its not only been said that Knuckles can just see himself while climbing now in first person mode (it zooms out.), but that Tails' flight has been modified to play like Sonic 3 and strafe fly has been removed in the trunk builds for ages because bug abusing is stupid.

Another thing 21kHzBANK21kHz hilariously neglects in his post is how predictable flight is. You know where Tails is landing and just send a bomb ring in the general direction of that spot, no matter if he lands on a higher platform than you can reach or not, he's finished.

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Thing is, kte can already do that with good scripting. Just go 3rd person and zoom out. Either way, a climbing kte is the true definition of a sitting duck in this game. It's possible to see someone coming and try avoid rings, but it's still alot less safe than just flying, and Tails doesn't have to be close to a wall (bombs away) to get wherever Knuckles is going.
Bomb range is OP, yes, but I think you're kind of overestimating it. When I said there's nothing Sonic could do, I meant it. You could try bombing the underside of a platform in Meadow Match, but the likelihood of you hitting the target you can't see is very small (not even considering that anyone would be able to tell you were trying to bomb them and just fly above the platform, forcing you to waste your ammo on nothing). And Meadow is just a saving grace in this situation, most platforms are too dense for the bomb's range anyway, such as the platforms in Sapphire Falls that most Tails players escape to scathe-free or better yet, my Cloud Palace example. Tails may be more predictable than Sonic, and definitely more predictable than Knuckles, but whether or not you know what he's going to do doesn't matter if you can't stop it. Fact is, Tails may not be easy to play at first, but a Tails player that knows the game can be a serious pain. He's hard enough to stop already in Nimbus Ruins, let's not make it impossible by nerfing the rail ring.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThatSrb2DUDE?feature=watch

Tails is unrelated to rails, so I don't really care about that anymore since its been discussed everywhere now as a true issue of not being balanced. Rails on the other hand, are NOT like sniper rifles in other games. People say that ite balanced by its delay timer, but it really isn't at all.

This is SRB2. A game where you literally run as fast as your damn ammo. A game where you shoot ANYTHING with absolutely no repercussions on your movement, you can be in the playing field and out of the room in literal seconds. In real first person shooters, using snipers most of the time requires you to scope to aim. This is an action that slows your horizontal movement to a near crawl, makes your aiming sensitivity 1/3 its former speed, shrinks your peripheral vision greatly, and sometimes DOESN'T even guarantee a kill. There are so many drawbacks to using snipers if you're not careful in games that actually know what they're doing.

In this, the mechanic is losing all of your ammo when hit, and you can just fire it like any other weapon, nothing changes for your movement or actually hinders you one bit. You can be thokking while facing sideways midair at full speed and shoot it like it was nothing. When you shoot someone, they lose every chance they have to fight back after getting damaged.

First they need to recollect their rings to get you back, but by that time, you've already swiped their panels before them due to its ludicrous knockback distance that it really doesn't need on it, all of this happened in more than just a second obviously letting you reload and shoot again by the time they've gotten to their rings (if they could). If you're scared of proceeding forward but can't shoot because its reloading, why bother? Again, this is just SRB2. As soon as you land, you're literally out of there in a second to gain your ground again. To top it all off, the software renderer forces us to make rooms so small in comparison to actual shooters, that there wouldn't even be a NEED to scope if we did have the option to. Railing takes no effort.



Rails would only be like any other shooter if using them removed your controls for a set amount of tics, slowed your movement down considerably, and limited your sensitivity. But as usual, big changes make people whine and moan.

Doesn't take changes to make people whine and moan, trust me.
Imagine being in Cloud Palace as the game is starting and shooting a rail ring successfully at someone. Your motion has been slowed and your controls are apparently disabled for a while. Now as you sit there watching every other member of the team bombard you with every weapon in the game you'll probably be wondering who the heck came up with this idea in the first place. These changes would definitely make the rail ring the most underpowered weapon in the game. Even now, the chances of you hitting someone with a rail ring where it really counts is slim. Sure it's a good weapon just to have around, but let's look at the bigger picture. When in Nimbus Ruins and your opponent has just railed you into a pit and is making his way back to base, just before he lands to end the game, that's when the rail ring comes in handy. There's no need to nerf it, because it fits almost perfectly into the game as it is. The only thing I think really should be changed to make it a little less OP is the knockback, becuase it is a bit ridiculous. Other than that, it should be left alone and understood as part of the game. I mean, even in the situations I mentioned it should be used in, using a rail ring from a distance and ignoring the rest of your surroundings (pits, enemies, etc.) is a far cry. SRB2 is hectic enough to the point where the rail ring is needed. I will agree that it is the most powerful weapon, just as I'll agree that Sonic is the most powerful character, but this really depends on your angle. In fighting games, like Tekken, there are always gonna be your S-tier characters. Mishimas are the most powerful characters in Tekken, and yet Mishima players loose enough tournaments consistently to make players realize that, truthfully, the game is balanced.
EDIT:Let me also say, for good measure, that the problem of not being able to defend yourself can be solved by grabbing a shield. Even without that though, when is your opponent going to be able to be so close to you that they need to use a rail ring? That's bombing distance, which easily overpowers the rail ring at close range.

I'm not even going to bother reading everything that's been said, because from what I've seen just by skimming, I can already tell just how much of a loop this topic is in, and just how stupid so many of these claims are.

Some of you are complaining that the Rails are unfair? How? They have a relatively small hitbox. For someone to hit you with them would require them to have good coordination, or, if you want to be black and white about it, "skill." So really, getting mad/upset/booty-bothered by the weapon itself is unjustified and illogical. And trying to find logic in a Sonic game of all things? All I have to say to that is: C'moooon. C'mooooonnnn.

Hate the player, not the game.

I'm out.

Pretty immature and ignorant point if you ask me, and it was a single point that really doesn't make any sense, was addressed earlier (which you ignored due to your ignorance), and considering their hit-box isn't really any different from all the other rings? Try again.

Really? "Trying to find logic in a Sonic game" as an argument for balance and fun factor? "I'm out"? It sounds like you just got off an argument on YouTube.

ZX said:

I'm not even going to bother reading everything that's been said, because from what I've seen just by skimming, I can already tell just how much of a loop this topic is in, and just how stupid so many of these claims are.

Some of you are complaining that the Rails are unfair? How? They have a relatively small hitbox. For someone to hit you with them would require them to have good coordination, or, if you want to be black and white about it, "skill." So really, getting mad/upset/booty-bothered by the weapon itself is unjustified and illogical. And trying to find logic in a Sonic game of all things? All I have to say to that is: C'moooon. C'mooooonnnn.

Hate the player, not the game.

I'm out.

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You should read the other posts if you want people to take your post seriously.

Iceman404 said:

Pretty immature and ignorant point if you ask me, and it was a single point that really doesn't make any sense, was addressed earlier (which you ignored due to your ignorance), and considering their hit-box isn't really any different from all the other rings? Try again.

Really? "Trying to find logic in a Sonic game" as an argument for balance and fun factor? "I'm out"? It sounds like you just got off an argument on YouTube.

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Where did I ever compare the hitbox of the Rails to the hitboxes of any other weapons? (Hint: rhetorical question.) And you're sure its hitbox is absolutely the same as the other weapon rings? All of them? I can immediately think of one that proves that statement wrong. Furthermore, what about the point made was immature? The fact that it's not the weapon that's too powerful, but that it's entirely up to the player's skill to decide how potent it is? Clarify that for me, if you'd please. And finally, if that little bit about YouTube was meant to be an insult, then I'm sorry to say that it fell severely short of one, and that you may want to look at the word "immature" a bit more in-depth before using it against anyone else.

Now then, being that I don't particularly want to get into an argument at this point in time, nor that I was even attempting to incite one, I would like to carry on, if you'd please.

Also wondering how long it'll be before the topic gets locked.

---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------

21kHzBANK21kHz said:

You should read the other posts if you want people to take your post seriously.

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And get myself stuck in the same loop everyone else seems to be inside of? No thank you. I'm fine out here on the sane side of things. I couldn't care less if people take my post seriously or not. It's there. What they do about it is their business, not mine. Unless, that is, I choose to make it my business. :V

Why did you even come to the topic if you think it's not worth your time? Don't you have better things to be doing then? You're contradicting yourself by openly and quite arrogantly stating that you rushed in for no reason without reading anything, then stating the oldest and most ineffective argument in the book, 'lolskill'. Yes, I'm pretty sure with enough skill ANYTHING terrible could be overlooked, but that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. I only ever see this kind of ridiculous attitude and exact statements on things like YouTube, if you'd like to know.

Also, I thought it'd be general knowledge that I meant rings in their initial state before they collide with level geometry and actually explode into a larger hitbox, meaning bomb and grenade still apply to this, leaving only one other ring larger than rail's hitbox when flying. Even then, the point still gets across.

Honestly, you wouldn't have made such a dumb claim if you'd just read the other posts in the topic that explained some of this general stuff.

Also wondering how long it'll be before the topic gets locked.

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And you're still doing it.

Iceman404 said:

Why did you even come to the topic if you think it's not worth your time? Don't you have better things to be doing then? You're contradicting yourself by openly and quite arrogantly stating that you rushed in for no reason without reading anything, then stating the oldest and most ineffective argument in the book, 'lolskill'. Yes, I'm pretty sure with enough skill ANYTHING terrible could be overlooked, but that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. I only ever see this kind of ridiculous attitude and exact statements on things like YouTube, if you'd like to know.

Also, I thought it'd be general knowledge that I meant rings in their initial state before they collide with level geometry and actually explode into a larger hitbox, meaning bomb and grenade still apply to this, leaving only one other ring larger than rail's hitbox when flying. Even then, the point still gets across.

Honestly, you wouldn't have made such a dumb claim if you'd just read the other posts in the topic that explained some of this general stuff.


And you're still doing it.

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And you're saying that skill isn't a valid argument? You're kidding me, right? You seriously mean to tell me that you think any player can just pick a Rail up and know how to effectively use it? Oy...

Just like that, you've lost my interest. I read your whole post but I don't even see you worth arguing with. Good night.

Any new person will be bad. We're discussing balance when the players are using the weapons and items to their potential. That is how proper gameplay balance is meant to be done, not by how difficult or awkward something is to use, because that hill is climbed once you've got the learning curve down and then issues become apparent when something is too outright better than everything else.

I'm not even going to bother reading everything that's been said, because from what I've seen just by skimming, I can already tell just how much of a loop this topic is in, and just how stupid so many of these claims are.

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All I have to say to that is: C'moooon. C'mooooonnnn.

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Also wondering how long it'll be before the topic gets locked.

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I'm fine out here on the sane side of things. I couldn't care less if people take my post seriously or not. It's there. What they do about it is their business, not mine. Unless, that is, I choose to make it my business. :V

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Just like that, you've lost my interest. I read your whole post but I don't even see you worth arguing with

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Oh my God, at this point it's impossible to really take what you're saying seriously.

I'm out.

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Goodnight, ZX.

And get myself stuck in the same loop everyone else seems to be inside of? No thank you.

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Goodnight again man.

Good night.

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Finally.