Yet Another 2.1 Update

Prime 2.0 said:

...for that matter, that path can be completed by Robohood thanks to the wallslide glitch, but it's kinda silly to count that.

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Clearing that path was also the difference between Robo-Hood being able to clear ERZ1 and not being able to, even so. ;)

the cyan said:

Personally i like the idea of adding knuckles path. I finally have a good reason to play as all characters , sonic for a hard gameplay, tails for a easy and knuckles for is unique paths.

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So what you are saying is, you do not want Knuckles to be able to explore that part of a level? You force him on this part instead?

speed2411 said:

So what you are saying is, you do not want Knuckles to be able to explore that part of a level? You force him on this part instead?

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You don't have to choose Knuckles to explore the others section(that Sonic can't reach), You can already explore them as Tails.

the cyan said:

You don't have to choose Knuckles to explore the others section(that Sonic can't reach), You can already explore them as Tails.

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So you HAVE to be tails to explore that area. You can not be Knuckles, because he is forced onto another path. That is my main problem. The thing is, it takes away from the rest of the level, and as mentioned earlier, you can not put a wirlwind shield in Knuckles reach, other wise he can take the other paths.

speed2411 said:

So you HAVE to be tails to explore that area. You can not be Knuckles, because he is forced onto another path. That is my main problem. The thing is, it takes away from the rest of the level, and as mentioned earlier, you can not put a wirlwind shield in Knuckles reach, other wise he can take the other paths.

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So you dont like the idea of Knuckles forced into one path. That's not a problem if you want to explore the other path just choose Sonic or Tails.

You know, if you badly want to explore Sonic/Tails routes as Knux (or perhaps the other way round), why not check if you can go into them the reverse way or something if possible? After all I'm pretty sure a lot of the SP levels are backtrack-able to some extent, and then of course there's the case of Tails' ERZ1 emblem.

Getting rather tired of this discussion of character-specific routes by now honestly.

speed2411 said:

So you HAVE to be tails to explore that area. You can not be Knuckles, because he is forced onto another path. That is my main problem. The thing is, it takes away from the rest of the level, and as mentioned earlier, you can not put a wirlwind shield in Knuckles reach, other wise he can take the other paths.

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Think of Knuckles' paths the way they were graphically shown in S3K: They show a different layout, both aesthetically and gameplay-wise: different backgrounds, puzzles, even objects in some acts.
Another way to see it as such would be between Soldier and Spy in Team Fortress 2: Soldier is your go-to bulky slow shocktrooper that goes out on the front. Spy on the other hand will rely on sneaking and mind-playing if he wants to live long enough to effectively eliminate specific targets.

Knuckles isn't a nerfed Sonic in S3K, in fact it's very possible for him to take Sonic's path -albeit glitched and impossible to finish most of the time- with some smart moves. Knuckles in S3K is just like the Spy is to the Soldier in TF2; a wholly different character to play as.

Brown the dog said:

Another way to see it as such would be between Soldier and Spy in Team Fortress 2: Soldier is your go-to bulky slow shocktrooper that goes out on the front. Spy on the other hand will rely on sneaking and mind-playing if he wants to live long enough to effectively eliminate specific targets.

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Talk about a horrible comparison.

Knuckles' paths are to make the most of his abilities, ala the stalactite path in ERZ1. Same with S3K, though it also gives him his own unique story to follow, meaning differences in more than just gameplay. Making Knuckles able to explore Sonic's paths would ruin the entire point of his unique routes.

Simply put, Routes for different characters makes the game more worthwhile because you can have a different experience by playing a different character. It's like a Visual Novel: It's a different experience if you make different decisions. (though most Visual novels are much more differentiated than Sonic games, honestly) They just have to be made correctly.

If it kills the explorable area, then you could just make the defined paths more explorable. No need to make all paths explorable, since it kills the differentiation.

In my opinion, I think that paths that only certain characters can go through should be included, but I don't think it needs to be mandatory for them to go that route, know what I'm saying? Like, say there are 3 paths, path A, B, and C. Lets say that Sonic can normally go through path A, so then so can Knuckles and tails. But Sonic can also take path B, and so can knuckles, but tails can't. And Tails can go to path C, where as Sonic or Knuckles can't.

I think characters should have certain optional pathways which can be accessed by using their charabilities.

Also, is there any small possibility that the Lightdash might be brought back? Even as a secret thing? Or unlockable? And while talking about the lightdash, why not Adventure mode completly? It seemed like a pretty cool mode.

Lovin' the new KDiZD lights in THZ.

Knuckles' purpose as a gameplay feature in Sonic 3&K is to give players who were experienced with Sonic games a new challenge. When Knuckles uses his ability to climb and bust through walls, he's not just unlocking a new path, he's unlocking an entirely different section of the zone that was built to challenge his specific abilities. This is also the reason why he has a lower jump, so as to restrict him from the Sonic paths that the developers might have thought didn't suit the character's gameplay. In fact, entire acts gave Knuckles unique level design to go through, and when it became boss time, he also got more challenging versions of bosses, or sometimes bosses that were different from Sonic's.

With that in mind, I don't think it's a bad idea for Knuckles to have the ability to transform, so long as Knuckles actually follows a similar design in SRB2 as he does Sonic 3&K. When you say "We're making Knuckles-exclusive paths", I say "Go fucking nuts, and throw in a Super Metal Sonic battle while you're at it". It's okay to have a character that's essentially just an easier way to go through the game than Sonic, but Tails is already designed to fill that part. If you want to diversify the characters in terms of how they affect the single player campaign, capitalize on Knuckles' stats and abilities and make him go through completely different hurdles to justify giving him Super when the player collects all the emeralds as him.

I wish knuckles actually handled uniquely like he did in S3K. Belly sliding if you glide into the ground and getting his bearing after landing from a high glide (he could spindash while doing either), and a slower fall rate when gliding.

I dunno about the belly-sliding thing, but SRB2 Knux's glide already has the slower fall built-in, since probably as long as glide has existed in the game? And of course he's got the lower jump too, and can smash through bustable blocks effortlessly. What more do you want from him aside from belly-sliding?

Well, Knuckles does belly slide in SRB2Riders, in the regular race maps.

Monster Iestyn said:

I dunno about the belly-sliding thing, but SRB2 Knux's glide already has the slower fall built-in, since probably as long as glide has existed in the game? And of course he's got the lower jump too, and can smash through bustable blocks effortlessly. What more do you want from him aside from belly-sliding?

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I want him to feel like knuckles.




You also completely miscomprehended me. I said SLOWER falling when gliding. As in buffing glide so the acceleration it gets is actually useful and practical.

Problem with buffing glide acceleration is that in a 3D space, you can just keep turning and build up ridiculous speed without actually bumping into anything. Go ahead and try it in GFZ1, jump from a high spot and then glide for as long as you can. It's already pretty silly as is, and it's no surprise they never implemented such a feature in the Adventure games.

Neo Chaotikal said:

Go ahead and try it in GFZ1, jump from a high spot and then glide for as long as you can.

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Even better, climb to the very top of the first room of CEZ2. The room is tall and square, so it's easy to not bump into anything and glide for a very long time. The speed you eventually reach is ludicrous. Is there even a max gliding speed?

There's nothing to stop Knux's gliding going as fast as possible, yeah. In 2.0 at least the limit's probably just MAXMOVE, the speed of Sonic's thok and the max speed of everything else in the game, but in 2.1 MAXMOVE is gone sooo....

The way his glide handles is pretty dumb anyways. You shouldn't be able to instantly turn when using a mouse like that, his trajectory should slowly adjust to his angle instead. It already feels ridiculously powerful and unpolished right now even without picking up much speed, its one of the worst parts of facing him in match. Knuckles players can just spazz their mouse everywhere and become completely unhittable because of the unpredictability, which even makes it more of an unenjoyable issue than thok spamming.

Besides making it harder to control, anyhow, I'm sure a hard limit could be placed on how much speed it can gain.