Monster Iestyn
Fangtastic
Isn't the reason in the first post itself?
[Open Assets] SRB2 - Community Build! - Full color Edition! (PNG)
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Isn't the reason in the first post itself?
What do you know, it is!
LinuxUser324
Member
Speaking of the reason SRB2CB is discontinued, I don't really understand this part:
Isn't rewriting SRB2 from the ground up the only way to see something more advenced than what SRB2's Doom-based engine can do?
Yes, but it would result in a brand new game that's not SRB2 anymore.
LinuxUser324
Member
So? I still don't get it.
Or does the first sentence of the quote in my previous post mean that he wanted to rewrite SRB2 so that it works the same but has cleaner code (because to me, it looks more like he said he wanted to write a different game from scratch)?
Yes. But he won't do that, because he wouldn't be satisfied with rewriting the game and not advancing it.
Super Chris
That one map maker.
The "shield" command gives you a shield ('Nuff said) and it activates cheat protection. I played this game with my friends and they said that shield protection doesn't activate cheat protection. They tried it and I proved them wrong.
Yeah! That's the spirit. Keep up the work and good luck! :D
...When did THIS happen? No offense (as this is a very well done mod), but I coulda sworn most of us stopped caring about it ages ago. That's just the way the SRB2 Community is. I mean, look at SRB2 Riders. It got a ton of kart maps and then, almost nothing else. I have yet to see a single SRB2CB wad in releases. The only wads done were a few test maps, and projects made by pre-teens that went nowhere.
I never stopped caring. In fact, I've been planning on making a Community Build debut map, Ocean Spires, as soon as I'm done with the collab that's been sucking up all my level building efforts. Something that will showcase CB's best features, such as Skyboxes and Polyobjects, in a full level.
In all truth, I don't see why people wouldn't use Community Build when they're making a single player map. What are the downsides to it?
#1: No fog. Relatively minor, unless your level uses fog as a gimmick, which is pretty rare. Sure, it makes some visual tricks impossible, but I would sacrifice fog for Skyboxes and OpenGL any day. And this is coming from someone who looooves his fog.
#2: A few people who have computers even slower than mine, who won't be able to play it even with the better OpenGL. Maybe it's just me, but I say forget them. I don't care about catering to every random SRB2 player out there. If the majority of them can play, I'm fine. Besides, most people have access to at least one computer that can handle it, even if it's not their main PC. Use a siblings computer, or even your grandparents computer if you really need to and want to.
You know what I believe is the real reason why this and Riders don't get very much attention? The OLDC. Not that the OLDC is bad. It's incredibly fun, but it sucks a lot of attention away from the other things. Who wants to make a Single Player map for the heck of it, when you can enter it in a contest and get people voting on it? I know I usually don't.
Those of us making mods should seriously consider using things like Community Build, though. Except that there seems to be a strange habit of releasing mods level by level in the OLDC... I never understood that.
I honestly can't wait to see what you have in mind now, Kalaron. Whatever it is, I bet it will find an appropriate spot in my upcoming Community Build levels.
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Doom Builder 2 has now been modified to support SRB2+CB features:
http://mb.srb2.org/showthread.php?p=716755#post716755
This will make slope editing and texture selection MUCH easier for modders:
No more guessing how a slope will look in game - SRB2DB2 has a 3D mode that supports live previews for slopes & FOFs
Happy modding!
http://mb.srb2.org/showthread.php?p=716755#post716755
This will make slope editing and texture selection MUCH easier for modders:
No more guessing how a slope will look in game - SRB2DB2 has a 3D mode that supports live previews for slopes & FOFs
Happy modding!
The main issue with SRB2CB, is that its an EXE mod. Something very few of us ever use nowadays because there's little reason to. Riders got boring because all anoyone played was Kart mode, and then we realized there was very little we could do with Kart mode maps, and the bugs were far too glaring, so we eventually moved on. XSRB2 was ignored because Golf mode was, while creative, didn't have a lot of support by modders due to us just not thinking of anything, with the other extras mainly applying to speedrunners. The only thing XSRB2 really had to offer for modders for normal SP maps was two monitors related to scaling and S3&K style quicksand. SRB2Cineblast had stolen bots and other stolen content so it was trumped by SRB2CB.
The only EXE mod I can recall that had such a strong grip on the community was SRB2JTE. Its bots, its OGL extras, and an easter egg that proved the community could not have nice things was why it was so outrageously popular. It took 2.0 to finally take SRB2JTE down, with its own creator being disgusted in it (well, moreso its users, but still). I bet you most of the community barely remembers the other EXE mods pre-2.0.
And this mod will take the plunge like the rest of them. Why? Well, while we have been BEGGING for slopes for YEARS, the question arises; what do we do with them? They have physics, but the physics of SRB2 in general are not the same as the classics, and the classics mainly used slopes as a way to keep flow and momentum and for a few gimmicks. They dont add as much to SRB2 because of the pacing and feel of SRB2. Slope physics just feel gimmicky in SRB2CB, and attempts at them just feel gimmicky, with a spindash jump being able to clear just about anything in SRB2 already. The most I could think of slopes for was purely visual. While slopes could certainly make maps look far better, they just dont add enough to the SRB2 experience.
As for the other stuff SRB2CB has to offer, excluding purely visual flare, balloons feel like they're just a few lines away from being soccable objects, the S3&K monitors are pretty redundant, and the glider goes really slow, even if it does respawn. The board and skyboxes are the only real things I cared about in the selection. As for bots, they are superior to JTE's old bots, but nothing compared to actual human competitors.
So when Kalaron asked for test maps, we made a lot of them, but then, it dawned on me. These new extras just feel like developer toys. Something mappers can just fiddle about with and have fun making awful maps with them, like mine: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7986587/downhilljam.wad. As you can see, this is fun to screw about in, but how much of this stuff would really add anything to a map's experience? Not a whole lot. Maybe a map or two, then SRB2CB goes back into obscurity.
Most of the community doesn't care for these things anyway; it'll just keep going the route it is, not caring for EXE mods or... anything out of the OLDC, and just stick with vanilla games on vanilla maps on the vanilla EXE.
Oh, and lets not forget: http://mb.srb2.org/showpost.php?p=712463&postcount=77
The only EXE mod I can recall that had such a strong grip on the community was SRB2JTE. Its bots, its OGL extras, and an easter egg that proved the community could not have nice things was why it was so outrageously popular. It took 2.0 to finally take SRB2JTE down, with its own creator being disgusted in it (well, moreso its users, but still). I bet you most of the community barely remembers the other EXE mods pre-2.0.
And this mod will take the plunge like the rest of them. Why? Well, while we have been BEGGING for slopes for YEARS, the question arises; what do we do with them? They have physics, but the physics of SRB2 in general are not the same as the classics, and the classics mainly used slopes as a way to keep flow and momentum and for a few gimmicks. They dont add as much to SRB2 because of the pacing and feel of SRB2. Slope physics just feel gimmicky in SRB2CB, and attempts at them just feel gimmicky, with a spindash jump being able to clear just about anything in SRB2 already. The most I could think of slopes for was purely visual. While slopes could certainly make maps look far better, they just dont add enough to the SRB2 experience.
As for the other stuff SRB2CB has to offer, excluding purely visual flare, balloons feel like they're just a few lines away from being soccable objects, the S3&K monitors are pretty redundant, and the glider goes really slow, even if it does respawn. The board and skyboxes are the only real things I cared about in the selection. As for bots, they are superior to JTE's old bots, but nothing compared to actual human competitors.
So when Kalaron asked for test maps, we made a lot of them, but then, it dawned on me. These new extras just feel like developer toys. Something mappers can just fiddle about with and have fun making awful maps with them, like mine: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7986587/downhilljam.wad. As you can see, this is fun to screw about in, but how much of this stuff would really add anything to a map's experience? Not a whole lot. Maybe a map or two, then SRB2CB goes back into obscurity.
Most of the community doesn't care for these things anyway; it'll just keep going the route it is, not caring for EXE mods or... anything out of the OLDC, and just stick with vanilla games on vanilla maps on the vanilla EXE.
Oh, and lets not forget: http://mb.srb2.org/showpost.php?p=712463&postcount=77
Hehe, I totally agree - but ironically, have you even considered what I could actually want from this 'community' project?
I guess you seem to think all I want is to start this up again somehow 'save it from going into obscurity' - right?
This isn't a rant, flame, or an insult, this is honestly something to think about:
I mean, seriously - why would I ever start this up again? And it's probably even more confusing to you now why I would start this up again - especially since I agree with what you said, right?
There's no fooling anyone - it's ridiculous to think I could keep this EXE mod going indefinitely:
Yet despite all of this, I still want to start this again, WHY?!
What are my motives?
Maybe this is more than just another EXE mod, as in - maybe there's another reason behind it?
Just because you don't see CB used in this community doesn't mean that it doesn't get used, have you considered that maybe other people outside this community use it? Maybe there's good mappers out there that AREN'T members here? Maybe I KNOW people who are interested in this kind of stuff?
And have you considered the possibility that maybe....I'm not just a coder?
What if all these features that I've been working on weren't really for SRB2?
What if I made this project not solely so others could use it, but maybe so that I could use it too?
I asked you guys to make test levels:
Was it just so I could see a bunch of random test levels, or maybe it was so I could fix and refine something else?
And not just to fix bugs so that other people wouldn't abruptly encounter them when making levels but maybe so that I wouldn't have to abruptly encounter them.
Am I really just interested in coding and coincidentally adding features to an engine which some members find out of place?
Seriously, what's my motive?
Edit: I DO care about other people using this mod, because it's just nice to see that, BUT there's more to it than that
Edit2: Oh, and SRB2DB2, what's my motive for that :P ?
I guess you seem to think all I want is to start this up again somehow 'save it from going into obscurity' - right?
This isn't a rant, flame, or an insult, this is honestly something to think about:
I mean, seriously - why would I ever start this up again? And it's probably even more confusing to you now why I would start this up again - especially since I agree with what you said, right?
There's no fooling anyone - it's ridiculous to think I could keep this EXE mod going indefinitely:
- Many of the members here prefer software mode anyway, and prefer SRB2's non-sloped level format and retro look
- Many projects are short lived - not even SRB2 stuff, but code projects in general - you forgot to mention SRB2Morphed, Anti-Porqupine's first slope mod, Shuffle's Zelda mod, Shufflarb2
- Most of the members actually discourage the kinds of changes I'm making
- There's not even any other coders around that are as interested in modding the game engine as much as I am
Yet despite all of this, I still want to start this again, WHY?!
What are my motives?
- Can't be to please the majority of the community here, the official version obviously gets more attention because of the Level Design contest
- Can't be because I want the EXE mod to be known - Mods are so short-lived!
- Can't be because I actually want to change things in the official SRB2, in fact I HAD to have known this, because I quit the project so suddenly even though the topic was still getting replys and I was still getting feature requests on IRC, and even explictly stated that this project is a separate branch with no real expectation that anything from it would be added to the official SRB2
- There's few people here who make serious levels for REGULAR SRB2, why would I expect anyone to make something for a MOD of the SRB2?
Maybe this is more than just another EXE mod, as in - maybe there's another reason behind it?
Just because you don't see CB used in this community doesn't mean that it doesn't get used, have you considered that maybe other people outside this community use it? Maybe there's good mappers out there that AREN'T members here? Maybe I KNOW people who are interested in this kind of stuff?
And have you considered the possibility that maybe....I'm not just a coder?
What if all these features that I've been working on weren't really for SRB2?
What if I made this project not solely so others could use it, but maybe so that I could use it too?
I asked you guys to make test levels:
Was it just so I could see a bunch of random test levels, or maybe it was so I could fix and refine something else?
And not just to fix bugs so that other people wouldn't abruptly encounter them when making levels but maybe so that I wouldn't have to abruptly encounter them.
Am I really just interested in coding and coincidentally adding features to an engine which some members find out of place?
Seriously, what's my motive?
Edit: I DO care about other people using this mod, because it's just nice to see that, BUT there's more to it than that
Edit2: Oh, and SRB2DB2, what's my motive for that :P ?
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EDIT: Ninja'd by Kalaron
Was that supposed to be a reply to me? Because if it was, I find it entertaining that you spent a lot of time talking about slopes, which I didn't even mention in my post. I will readily admit that slopes aren't incredibly useful. Even if someone were to use them in some sort of good way, I have little doubt that the community would point it's pudgy finger at it and call it "just an excuse to use useless slopes". They have their place, but with not having had them for so long, they're going to look out of place, and everyone is going to criticize them for that very reason.
Okay. After writing that, I played your wad there, and my impression of CB improved. What is gimmicky about those slopes? I had been under the impression before that they made you constantly move downhill, even when at a full stop, but now I see that's not the case. That was the one major thing that turned me away from slopes!
And now it is gone.
I guess it all boils down to this: Is the stuff in CB worth it?
I'll ignore the big one, slopes, because they're so controversial, and no one has used them in a non controversial way yet.
-Polyobjects that don't look like crap
-Skyboxes, ways to make your map seem bigger and a lot more open
-Much cleaner graphics without flaws, and many times more efficient
-Sideways springs
-Skateboard (I wouldn't even consider this a big one, but seeing as many like it, I'll put it here)
-Following Bots to imitate the classics
-Lots more decorative options
-Various small gimmicks
I would undoubtedly say yes. These options will allow me to take the dreams I've had ever since I came across SRB2, and put them into realization way more than I ever would be able to with Vanilla. Silly excuses like "it's an .exe mod" don't cut it for me. If that's the only thing that it has against it, then the developers should think of implementing a few of these things. But of course they won't like that idea. I wouldn't mind seeing some skyboxes or fixed polyobjects in 2.1, but I think I shall be disappointed if I put my expectations that high.
You mentioned this a bit back... Who is using it? I know I saw something on *giggle* Skybase one of the few times I was there, but that can't be what you're talking about.
I would love to know the answer to that.
Was that supposed to be a reply to me? Because if it was, I find it entertaining that you spent a lot of time talking about slopes, which I didn't even mention in my post. I will readily admit that slopes aren't incredibly useful. Even if someone were to use them in some sort of good way, I have little doubt that the community would point it's pudgy finger at it and call it "just an excuse to use useless slopes". They have their place, but with not having had them for so long, they're going to look out of place, and everyone is going to criticize them for that very reason.
Okay. After writing that, I played your wad there, and my impression of CB improved. What is gimmicky about those slopes? I had been under the impression before that they made you constantly move downhill, even when at a full stop, but now I see that's not the case. That was the one major thing that turned me away from slopes!
And now it is gone.
After looking at that lame map, I think I see the problem. Of course those are going to seem like silly developer toys when you use them like that! I could make anything seem like a developer toy if I experimented with it in that fashion.
So what you're saying is that most of the community is... stupid? And doesn't appreciate creativity? I haven't found that to be the case. Like I said, the OLDC does draw away a lot of attention, but I don't think that means people don't care. Distracted perhaps. The way to get around that is to release things at the right time, a period of low interest in the OLDC.
I guess it all boils down to this: Is the stuff in CB worth it?
I'll ignore the big one, slopes, because they're so controversial, and no one has used them in a non controversial way yet.
-Polyobjects that don't look like crap
-Skyboxes, ways to make your map seem bigger and a lot more open
-Much cleaner graphics without flaws, and many times more efficient
-Sideways springs
-Skateboard (I wouldn't even consider this a big one, but seeing as many like it, I'll put it here)
-Following Bots to imitate the classics
-Lots more decorative options
-Various small gimmicks
I would undoubtedly say yes. These options will allow me to take the dreams I've had ever since I came across SRB2, and put them into realization way more than I ever would be able to with Vanilla. Silly excuses like "it's an .exe mod" don't cut it for me. If that's the only thing that it has against it, then the developers should think of implementing a few of these things. But of course they won't like that idea. I wouldn't mind seeing some skyboxes or fixed polyobjects in 2.1, but I think I shall be disappointed if I put my expectations that high.
Kalaron said:
You mentioned this a bit back... Who is using it? I know I saw something on *giggle* Skybase one of the few times I was there, but that can't be what you're talking about.
I would love to know the answer to that.
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Well, I always wanted to get around saying this about CB. Probably it was mentioned before, or mabye it wasnt. OK, here I go.
Well, overall this mod is fun just how JTE was and Cineblast. But I cant help to say that there are mabye 2 problems that are minor/major in the mod. Here's one of them:
I was actully reading the ability paragraph of Tails & Sonic and it says that abilities are Fly/Swin (lol swin).
Next one:
The homing attack is broken. I tried it out for all characters that have this ability and they all function the same. Oh well. =/
Mabye someone will fix it in the later versions.
EDIT: I bet $100 that the homing attack will be fixed before the swin situation. X3
Well, overall this mod is fun just how JTE was and Cineblast. But I cant help to say that there are mabye 2 problems that are minor/major in the mod. Here's one of them:
I was actully reading the ability paragraph of Tails & Sonic and it says that abilities are Fly/Swin (lol swin).
Next one:
The homing attack is broken. I tried it out for all characters that have this ability and they all function the same. Oh well. =/
Mabye someone will fix it in the later versions.
EDIT: I bet $100 that the homing attack will be fixed before the swin situation. X3
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YES.
You gotta remember, SRB2 is mostly played by kids. You can give them bread on a string and still find it to be the most amazing mod for SRB2. Why do you think Dumbventure got such absurd scores? I polished that thing to a shine, but I doubt 90% of the people who PLAYED it actually know how much effort into it, or any of the other stuff that goes through the OLDC (Like Blade and KOTE's entries, which often have SOCs and custom textures).
I think the olbies are the only users that actually care, but so few olbies remain, and the ones that do arn't interested enough to make anything more. Nobody is around to really show what SRB2CB can do, and what it CAN do isn't enough to warrant a complete conversion to another EXE. Especially since it doesn't add much to the experience.
The features in SRB2CB, when you look at them from the long run, is mostly gimmicky things almost nobody will use in the long run. Slopes are nigh useless with SRB2's physics, and a rewrite would probably require strong alterations to the game, distancing it far from vanilla mods.The more I fiddle with slopes, the more I realize how useless they are, and the more I realized how the classics use them, and why modern Sonic games only bother to use them for scripted things.
The classics' 2D nature allowed you to easily catapult around the stage, but aside from a few zones, they didn't try to make it a focus. They were there as a way to upkeep momentum and flow, as well as vary the ground up a little so it doesn't feel flat. A few gimmicks like hoops and corkscrews are just that; gimmicks. That's all it needed to do.
But then you throw a 3D element in there, and suddenly, slopes break boundaries in absurd ways. I even remember a few places where a slope and a properl timed spindash jump can hurl Sonic around in places he really shouldn't be (EX: Sonic Advneture 2, City Escape, spindash jump off the first stairs from after the boarding segment), so they ended up making the modern Sonic games a bunch of shit floating in the sky with little exploits to speak of.
While someone will probably be "OH YEAH WELL ILL MAKE IT SO MY WHOLE STAGE REVOLVES AROUND THE CONCEPT", and then you realize thats their only gimmick and that slopes are useless beyond "Spindash Jumpmaze Plus". As for all of this other stuff, it just feels like more junk we dont need that someone is gonna force down our throat just to go "OOOOOH SRB2CB SHIT MOTHERFUCKER", and soon, interest will drain, and it'll just be something to play if you really want Tails to follow Sonic and then die a lot.
But even if SRB2CB was the second coming of Christ, it still shares the pain of being an EXE mod for SRB2: A mod for a mod for a mod nobody remembers. SRB2CB will be played for awhile, then just get dropped along the side, like the many, many, MANY EXEs before it. Full of promise, but still not gonna get attention. Again, I have no idea how SRB2JTE didn't meet this fate (Despite even its creator hating what has become of it), but I am completely 100% sure that this mod will die, yet again. It's not a matter of if. It's a matter of when.
Just wondering, why the hell you want it cancelled?
I also understand the mod will die at a certain point, nobody will care about it, but...
was that all necessary?
I also understand the mod will die at a certain point, nobody will care about it, but...
was that all necessary?
I dont want it canceled. I'm saying it will. With nothing accomplished. Again.
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