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Old 01-01-2011   #41
Charybdizs
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Originally Posted by glaber View Post
Was the point to use the Buzzes instead of the SRB1 badnik with its left behind pallet?
No, I think the point was that you had a stupid looking enemy who did the exact same thing as buzzes, instead of anything new.

At least, that's what I got out of it.
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Old 01-02-2011   #42
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Originally Posted by glaber View Post
Was the point to use the Buzzes instead of the SRB1 badnik with its left behind pallet?
Maybe the point is that you need to understand what additions expand onto your level and what additions don't.

Thompson made use of what he had, and he expanded on what he could do by adding in a socced hang glider which he utilized further into his unique gimmicks.

What did you do? Put a bunch of rooms together with somewhat related textures and add ugly-ass scrapped enemies here and there? Add something vaguely resembling a trailer load and call it architecture? Put some effort into your work for once.
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Old 01-02-2011   #43
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Originally Posted by glaber View Post
Twilight Isles Zone by Thompson 3/10
Oi, did you even test this map?

I tried this map as all 3 default characters, got sigseved as Sonic and Tails (in the same room no less), and had a hard time figuring out where to go. I was even surprised to see Pac's Air glider, but couldn't controll it as precice as the missels of Meta Robotnik (I'm sticking with the US name if that's alright with everybody) When I was underwater, I was wondering where all the Bubbles where. Then I found just one patch and it was being shot at by 3 turrets. There was even enemy spam in a few spots and not to mention water that didn't push you up when it looked like it should. I didn't even think to water skip to get across at one point. (area after the Sigsev room)
The video shows my experience with the level.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glCMWm_IzZQ
Glaber, I must ask you one question: What on earth happened in that video? Now, I don't care about ratings because you can think about a level what you want, but your video showed me that at least half of the problems you saw in this level were your own fault. May I list:

  • You didn't even take all of the paths. You have played through approximately half of the level.
  • Regarding the puzzle at the beginning that you couldn't complete: Remember that spring with that ring around it? It didn't push you high enough when you first tried it. Why didn't you go back to it after the water had been raised to see where it takes you now?
  • In the first room without an air bubble, you don't even need an air bubble. You can make it through without even starting the countdown just fine, and you even did that a few times.
  • I didn't get this sigsegv. Apart from the fact that the crash was probably not Thompson's fault, there's normally no way for a level designer to fix that, especially not when the problem probably didn't even show up for him.
  • In the room where it sigsegv'd for you, you walked past the spring that would have gotten you back up about five times. One time, you were even next to it. There was a ring of rings around it as well. I have no clue how you couldn't see it.
  • I loved how you didn't get the water skipping gimmick at first and then said "Might as well waterskip" as if you meant "I know I'm not supposed to waterskip, but I'm gonna do it anyway because that's the only way to continue". Of course you should have waterskipped. Also, instead of dashing on the other fountains, you decided to find a way around them for a reason I still don't understand.
  • At the gray "mountain" or whatever, just before the crusher sequence, you decided to search for another path and went backwards. Had you took just a look to notice that Sonic can't even get on top of that cliff or that all Crawlas were facing backwards, you would have noticed that you were going backwards. You then glided to the end of the waterskipping path which you never took.
  • In the second underwater area, you drowned only because you didn't try to get up the first pillar like you would have done as Sonic. A bubble was right there, in plain sight. You just didn't see it because you decided to screw around as Knuckles instead of playing the level as intended.
  • I love how you, of all people, complained about enemy spam in one area, but the truth is that you could have walked past all of these enemies instead of attacking all of them. They wouldn't have hit you.
  • In the following room, you were so goddamn happy about that air bubble that you didn't even notice that you had just jumped into the water and didn't need air.
  • In the same room, you didn't find the exit because you never even touched the platform with the exit, like you would have if you didn't glide around like crazy.
  • Instead of hanging on to the air glider, you jumped off immediately, exclaiming "unexpected". Well, I have no idea why you did that.
Next time you play through a level as Knuckles, try to keep close to the real path. If you have to climb to get somewhere, it's usually not the way to go. Also, instead of panicking and being hectic, try to look at the room you're in. You might just find the exit. If you do that, a disaster like this one won't happen again.

Also, could you please trim these videos so that you show only relevant parts? I hate watching half an hour of film just to understand your review.

Last edited by MascaraSnake; 01-02-2011 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 01-02-2011   #44
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basicly what happened in that video was during my play though I didn't have a clear direction of where to go. Some of my comments in the video were late.

I never even saw that spring with the ring around it.

I actually ment that I didn't know that I had to waterskip. it didn't help that I thought I woudn't had made it across without the wind shield like the first fountain shows.

Reason I said unexpected was due to the sprite, I thought I was jumping into the bird badnik from Arid Canyon, not a hang glider

Quote:
I love how you, of all people, complained about enemy spam in one area, but the truth is that you could have walked past all of these enemies instead of attacking all of them. They wouldn't have hit you.
Tell that to the Crawla commander

I will revise my rating though and upload a new video to reflect it.
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Old 01-02-2011   #45
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Originally Posted by Charybdizs
Aw c'mon, you can do it! I'd love to see a map you made in the contest!
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You can't be worse than lots of typical entries. And if there are any serious problems with it, you'll learn from the feedback what to avoid doing in the future.
Thank you guys ^^
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Old 01-02-2011   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glaber View Post
basicly what happened in that video was during my play though I didn't have a clear direction of where to go. Some of my comments in the video were late.
I can see where that's coming from because there were quite a few points in the level where a player could get confused. You just happen to get much more confused than I thought was even possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glaber View Post
I actually ment that I didn't know that I had to waterskip. it didn't help that I thought I woudn't had made it across without the wind shield like the first fountain shows.
What happened there is that you didn't aim accurately enough. Also, if you think you can't make it through without a certain power-up you got from somewhere else, you probably did something wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glaber View Post
Reason I said unexpected was due to the sprite, I thought I was jumping into the bird badnik from Arid Canyon, not a hang glider
Yeah, that's can be a bit weird at first. But since it was facing away from the player, I figured it would be the glider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glaber View Post
I will revise my rating though and upload a new video to reflect it.
Don't think I want to force you to change the rating. Your opinion is yours, though if you want to revise it, that's of course also fine with me. And if you make a new video, please make sure it's not half an hour long again. Oh, and you might wanna try out that other path.
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Old 01-02-2011   #47
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The new video will be shorter, and I did try the other path just now. I didn't even know about that spring with the ring around it untill you told me. that path did have some confusing parts on it though, like after the first gargole switch, the next hallway had skims facing the wrong way making me think I had to turn around.

Oh, and Sonic can get to the top of that cliff. You may want to check the waterfalls for blue springs.
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Old 01-02-2011   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glaber View Post
I didn't even know about that spring with the ring around it untill you told me.
You did. You took it in the old video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glaber View Post
Ithat path did have some confusing parts on it though, like after the first gargole switch, the next hallway had skims facing the wrong way making me think I had to turn around.
Hmm, a closer observation showed me these skims don't move at all. Weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glaber View Post
Oh, and Sonic can get to the top of that cliff. You may want to check the waterfalls for blue springs.
Yeah, that was probably so players can travel back if they want to grab an item or take another path or something.

EDIT: Screw that last one. I meant the other waterfall. The one where you went backwards.

Last edited by MascaraSnake; 01-02-2011 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 01-02-2011   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritCrusher View Post
You did. You took it in the old video.
I guess I wasn't paying attention then.
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Old 01-02-2011   #50
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Single Player:
Icicle Warehouse Zone by glaber
Flooded Mine Zone, Act 1 by Spongecar

Twilight Isles Zone by Thompson - 3/10
This map feels like a choice between stupid puzzles and the same generic platforming present in every SRB2 map. Seeing as much, I'll just comment on the puzzles:

I really hate them. The first puzzle is passable once you figure it out and it becomes another platforming challenge, but until then, it's the most confusing area I've ever seen. The second "puzzle" is the same sequence of switches that every SRB2 map has as a "puzzle". The gargoyle puzzles also leave a lot to be desired: the first one should be raised up so as to be more prominent, because I went past it five times before noticing it. The second one was ok, since it was more prominent and had the advantage of coming after the puzzles were introduced, but I would've preferred the stairs be moved around so they're not right in front of said gargoyle; the first time I played the map, I pushed the gargoyle down all of those stairs instead of shoving it down the hole, which isn't very fun when step-up keeps pushing you on top of the gargoyle.

The platforming segments in the other paths weren't that much fun either, and I'm sure I wouldn't have figured out the water skipping area if I hadn't heard about it beforehand. On a positive note, the hang glider segment was fun, and the map looked pretty nice. But please, try to make a map where every path is clear.

I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of flak from people who disagree, and I'm sure my vote won't make much of a difference against people giving this map 9s and 10s because it has more puzzles than most, but I wanted you to know this anyway. (Also, tbh the only reason I played this map enough to score it is because the people on IRC wouldn't stop bitching at me until I played the whole map.)

Match:
MAPM1 - Setting Sands Zone by ZarroTsu
MAPM2 - Celestial Sanctuary Zone by Mystic
MAPM3 - Quick Cliffs Zone by Scizor300
MAPM4 - Orange Stream Zone by Brawl

CTF:
MAPF1 - Castle CTF Zone by Teleporter 412 - 0/10
This map had prison cells that team members would get randomly trapped in with no way out, idiotic platforming to get to the flag consistently, teleporters that barely work...

In conclusion, http://cdn.anyhub.net/thebest404page...sful_troll.swf

MAPF2 - Water Hall Zone by Kuba11 - 4/10
To be honest, this wouldn't make a bad CTF map except for how dark it is.

MAPF3 - Seaside Strike Zone by RedEchidna - hi mom
I have a bad habit of making last-minute rushjob maps nowadays. :E

MAPF4 - Gravity Garden Zone by Charybdizs - 2/10
I'm sorry, but this map lagged too much for me to play it properly. It was also one giant opening area, which is horrible for CTF.

MAPF5 - Volcanic Temple Zone by Metal Fighter - 3/10
This map was playable, but just barely. There was also too much lava in what I assume is the main path, and it's a fairly confusing mess of things.

Circuit:
MAPR1 - Mushroom Hill Zone by Simsmagic - 5/10
This map was difficult under lag, sure, but it's actually pretty fun once you get used to the mushrooms. Plus, I was the only one who actually finished in our netgame :D

Also, wasn't there an identical version put out on youtube about a month ago?

MAPR2 - Cherry Canyon Zone by Katmint
MAPR3 - Sunken Cave by Kuba11

MAPR4 - Greenflower Rush Zone by Spongecar - 1/10
I don't see what's so hard about this map. All it is is a few generic platforms with a zoom tube and a teleporter.

Also, lol SDURF

MAPR5 - Disco Dash Zone by Brawl - 0/10
Kept falling off of the path, turrets shooting out for no random reason, no starpost activators...

Try again.
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Last edited by RedEnchilada; 01-02-2011 at 03:42 PM. Reason: confusing werdz
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Old 01-02-2011   #51
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Man, voting time already? Time has been flying faster than ever for me...

I'll vote the SP maps soon.

Icicle Warehouse Zone by glaber: 3/10

The visuals were decent, but it wasn't anything exciting. The gameplay, unfortunately, was boring. It didn't seem inspiring at all and overall it just felt like another regular level. The SRB1 enemies were pointless, and is there any patricular reason why it leads to Blue Mountain Zone?

Flooded Mine Zone, Act 1 by Spongecar
: 1/10

I don't get this level at all. I just run into a bunch of cramped areas underwater, I do an exact copy of DSZ1's statue gimmick, and then gravity gets reversed for no reason. I blink, and the level ends. What the hell just happened?

Twilight Isles Zone by Thompson: 5/10

Easily the best level out of the three. The problem I thought that really killed the level was the trial and error difficulty. The water skipping gimmick (which took me forever to realize) especially led me to dying, A LOT. The gimmicks themselves and the concept of the level design was great. It could have been executed much better though.

Overall the SP levels didn't excite me much. I'll play the multiplayer maps but I won't vote for them, like usual.
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Old 01-02-2011   #52
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I do only vote for the Single Player Roation, because I am not used to play Match, CTF and Circuit maps. Let's begin, folks ^^

Icicle Warehouse - Glaber - 1/10

I'll be quick, I don't want to waste time talking about this piece of crap.
- Unneeded SRB1 enemies
- A horrible trap which Scizor300 already mentioned that can only be escaped from by NOCLIP
- Broken conveyor belts
- Where's the warehouse?
- A power-up room that has unreachable goods for Sonic
- Bad positioned enemies

That's all, Glaber, please try another business. This wasn't made for you.

Flooded Mine - Spongecar - 0/10

Hello Spongecar ;)
Your level is a bunch of narrow paths filled with nothing. Do not ever use GFZROCK and GFZFLR01 with mine textures/flats. The stage is tiny and has only one path split. Gravity flip was awful. The spikes should have a variation on their sets. There is a part of the level that can't be called a mine anymore ever since. This map has no good points. Nice try, Spongecar.

Twilight Isles - Thompson - 9/10

Wow Thompson
Do it again
Lemme tell the only fails: sigsev at the log hopping part and you're using a SOC that doesn't let Tails fly higher like he was supposed to.

I will not tell you why is the level so freaking cool because my friend Charybdizs already did that. Congratulations. I'll keep your wad.

Results: TWILIGHT ISLES, YAY!

I loved this contest. I'm thinking on voting on the Multiplayer maps ^^
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Old 01-02-2011   #53
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So, I finally finished my SP reviews, which are pages long as always. If I catch any of the mappers not reading his, I'm gonna kill him ;)

Spoiler: Single Player

Icicle Warehouse Zone by glaber - 3/10
I gotta admit: I wasn't gonna give you a review at all at first. What I thought was basically "Well, glaber never listens to anything we say anyway, his new level is just as bad as his old ones, so why should I bother?" I was gonna give you a 2/10 and not say a word. But then something happened. I think it was because you fixed a few issues I talked about, like the ugliness of the caves and the emptiness of the digging site. So I thought: "Hey, it seems like glaber can actually take criticism after all. We just have to be specific". And I guess that's what never happened. So now I'm gonna tell you everything you need to work on.

First of all, ditch the unnecessary enemies. As far as I could see, you ditched the old turrets. You should also ditch the recolored SRB1 enemies. Buzzes, although less original and not really in line with the theme, simply have much better sprites. The same goes for the Minuses. The ones from SRB2 Christmas are also glorified Buzzes. And since the new Minuses have a much more original behavior (and a slightly darker shade), the old ones serve no purpose. You also used a few random SRB1 enemies behind some glass windows as decoration, and I think an emerald was there too. That looks stupid, to be honest. I know it's a warehouse, but please not for ugly stuff. ;)

Your decoration, when it's there, isn't bad at all. These stars hanging from the ceiling, the white flowers, the snowmen etc., all of them add a nice touch. You also decorated the digging site (although I have no idea what that thing with the Mario blocks is) and tried to decorate one of the caves. The problem is that the black rocks of course mesh with the black textures, so it still looked kinda dull. Other caves are still rather empty, as are some warehouse parts, but visuals are not a large problem. Next time, try to spend more time on sector-based scenery and other small details.

This leads to another issue. Everything was too flat. Yes, I know that streets are flat, but then you shouldn't let the player run along so many streets then. Let him go off road to do some platforming for example, or block the street with some obstacle the player must overcome. The same goes for some of the warehouse and especially the caves. A lot of the time, I just didn't do anything but run across a flat road or a flat hallway. Even if the terrain wasn't flat like in that one valley before the warehouse, you put springs there so the player doesn't have to jump.

I liked the conveyors in the warehouse, but I don't know if it was intentional that they didn't work. They should. The storage room was kinda silly. I liked the idea, especially that you had to stay up to get all the items, but there were just too many of them. Another thing I'd like to comment on is the enemy spam. Especially the Crawla Commanders were too many. For once, you got the room size right in all of the level, which was another plus. The number of alternate paths and the way they were accessed was also great.

So, essentially, this is a step up from your previous maps. The visuals were rarely actively bad, and often looked nice. The gameplay was also not actively bad, although there wasn't really much to do. You definitely got most of the basics right here, and that is probably your first time. What you need to do now is spend more time fine-tuning and decorating your level and come up with more interesting gameplay ideas.

Flooded Mine Zone, Act 1 by Spongecar - 2/10
Well uh no. This didn't work. You're a beginner at mapping, so it wasn't a huge surprise that the result was bad, and it could have been a lot worse. Still, there isn't too much positive stuff to say about this map. The mine cart at the beginning was creative, you know how to execute some more complicated gimmicks, and the level size was mostly right, except for some rather tight corridors. You also tried to hide some secrets in there.

But a lot of stuff needs work. The GFZ and Sapphire Falls textures didn't fit, the gargoyle gimmick was shamelessly lifted from DSZ1, and the upside-down gimmick didn't fit into a mine theme at all. It was also very counter-intuitive. When I see spikes, I expect to jump, but that kills me. The small strip at the edge that I can walk on is very easy to miss. The secret in that area was also bad. Never put a regular floor below a death pit. Also, the secret was a shortcut to the exit, so once you've found it, there was no reason to ever take the normal path again.

Other random stuff: At the path split, the thok barrier was much lower than Sonic's jump height. That looks awkward. Also, there were missing textures behind the door of the gargoyle puzzle. And that's pretty much it. The level was of course rather unspectacular, but that's to be expected from a first map. Don't let the score make you think you should give up. For a first map, it was better than most. If you continue, you'll gain more and more experience, and your maps will get better.

Twilight Isles Zone by Thompson - 8/10
Let me begin this by saying that I don't like drama. The cutscene that you tacked before your level was definitely drama. Here's the deal: Saying "give me good reviews or I'll stop making levels" leads to two reactions: The first reaction is to give you a better score just to make sure you're happy and continue mapping. The second reaction is to drop a few points because people are mad at you for exploiting the first reaction. I'm gonna do neither of those, but I still don't like what you did there. Regarding 2k6RE, I can't say I care too much, because what you're doing now is very similar in style to what you did there. But now to the level, shall we?

When I started up the level, I was rather pleasantly surprised. The beach looks nice, especially with that DSZ wall texture you chose. Yes, it looks kinda 1.09.4-ish, but it's one of the few ones I still like a lot. You also used Green Snappers instead of tired old Crawlas, which gave you an immediate plus in my book. So what I expected after seeing this room was a short, pretty, decent but rather uninteresting stage. Boy, was I wrong. Your stage is really long (somewhere between 6 and 12 minutes, depending what path you take and how often you screw up on crucial parts) and very interesting. It's not always as pretty as in the opening area, and there are some problems, but for most of the level, you exceeded my expectations.

Let's address the visuals first. You obviously have a "gameplay over visuals" approach, while is generally fine. But sometimes, it leads to questionable decisions. They certainly aren't bad enough for me to drop your score, but you could improve them somewhat. The aforementioned DSZWALL textures need alignment, otherwise they look chopped up. You also overused them a bit too much for my taste. Especially for the underwater areas, you should try using DSZROCK or something similar instead. That's just personal taste, but I feel DSZWALL looks a bit too "tidy" for an underwater area.

Another thing that bugged me were the GHZ platforms, which often clashed with the rest of the texturing, especially in the gray-dominated rooms. I also sometimes had the impression you threw in a certain texture at a certain point just for variety's sake and without caring if it fits into the rest of the level. If you want to continue working on this, you might wanna go expand the texture set by one of two textures and try to make the whole stage look as consistent yet varied as you can. Nevertheless, the visuals certainly weren't bad, and even looked great in a look of cases.

The path layout you chose divides the level into pretty much two separate stages. Let's call this style "Kuja-ish", as an homage to levels like Aquatic Labyrinth which did the same. The fact that both of these halves of your level are rather different stylistically (one of them is centered on platforming, one on puzzles) makes the level very player-friendly. It offers a lot of replay value, yet you can ignore the puzzles if you don't like that style. Fortunately, the puzzle path starts right off with a puzzle, so if the player becomes bored or frustrated, he can still take the other path. I'm gonna handle the two halves separately and go through each one of them in detail.

I'll start with the platforming path. This path is longer and more complex than the other one, but also inferior at some points, which we'll come to later. Before I start, let me address your love for bustable walls. Bustable walls are fine and dandy for secrets, but they are kinda irritating and hard to notice for path openings. Also, you sometimes use the same texture you use for bustable walls for blocked exits. That leads to more confusion, as I never know if I can spin into a wall or not.

I was slightly disappointed that you used Crawlas for most of your level and didn't use the Snappers at all, except for one more beach section. Sure, Crawlas fit almost everywhere, but they're also kinda dull, easy to defeat, and don't really feel like they're "made" for any theme in particular. I'm sure you could have worked with less overused enemies - and did I mention I HATE Crawlas in underwater sections? You also have a tendency to use them on small platforms (see the beginning of the puzzle path, for example), which can make platforming very tedious because it's easy to hit them accidentally and fall down. That's cheap, so please don't do it, especially not over pits that knock you far down or even into death.

I like the fountain/geyser gimmick you used a few times (it's not your fault that it desyncs at one spot). What I didn't like was that suddenly and unexpectedly collapsing floor in that tunnel at the beginning (if you don't enter the beach). It's hard to see under a water surface, so you definitely need to introduce it in a less painful manner beforehand. In the following room, I notice how generous you are death pits. Nothing against death pits as a hazard, but you a lot of them, especially in gimmick rooms. That can be very frustrating, and in some cases, you might want to consider replacing the pit with some kind of failsafe.

The room where both small paths come together is where I notice how much you like arrows. Arrows are a somewhat cheap and lazy way of bringing paths together. Normally, the layout of your stage should do that for you. If you do use them, use them sparingly, and if possible, incorporate them into the design. For example, make a sector-based arrow on the floor, but please don't use these monolithic THZ arrow textures. The following underwater path is a rather cramped piece of filler. I know it's necessary to lead to the next area, but you could transform this into an underwater slide with some obstacles, that would reduce the pointlessness effectively. The crusher at the end of it is also unexpected and cheap. Remove it, nobody will miss it.

Now we come to the problematic part of the level. Both of the paths you can choose now are sub-par, for different reasons. When coming into that room, the only thing a player can do to continue is spin into that bustable wall to the right, which can be easily overlooked. The other path can't even be entered as long as the room is still flooded, so you have to spin through it. Of course, if you do it, you are immediately greeted with a Star Post and you're automatically inclined to continue there. This draws attention away from the other path.

I'll continue with the Star Post room, which is the worst part of your level for a number of reasons. First, it's set over a giant death pit. One mistake and you lose a life and must start over from the Star Post. I used my save with 99 lives, so I didn't game over, but I lost 16 lives or something. That's way too much. This section is rather difficult, so make sure there is a failsafe. Second, the water spindashing, although a good idea, is implemented rather badly. It's not very intuitive at first sight, and if you accidentally miss the bustable wall, you die due to the death pit. Also, there's a Crawla behind one of the bustable walls. Sometimes it's right behind it, in which case in knocks you right into the pit.

But it doesn't stop there. After you did the last water dashing trick, you come to a perceived dead end. There is a row of rings that leads to the edge of the platform. At first, I saw the entrance from there, didn't notice it was the entrance, jumped back down and continued along the other path. What I really had to do was jump up to the thin border of the platform, jump on the tiny blue spring surrounded by a death pit, and land on the "islands". Not only very hard to find, but also tricky to pull off over a pit. Now I progress until I reach a diagonal red spring. If you take it from the wrong angle, you might not make it and die. Then you have to repeat the whole awful section again.

The following room contains a great secret in form of the Attraction Shield (which you can only keep if you're invincible and which offers a quick way to proceed), but the platforms on the fountains don't work. I assume this is a mistake from your side. Since I can still use the Attraction Shield, it's not quite as problematic as it could have been. When jumping through the waterfall, it's hard at first to notice if I should go left or right. The exit should probably point slightly to the right to fix this problem. And now to the other path, the one without the Star Post.

Should I, for some weird reason, go back after reaching the Star Post, I can suddenly take the other path because the door just opened. That is, if I don't get crushed by the "bridge" that suddenly falls down. I must mention the cascading river that I come across now, it looks nice. Anyway, if I spindash the wall that leads back to the bridge room and the bridge suddenly comes up, I probably spin past it and need to take the spring to get back up. That's stupid. Remove the bustable wall and everything's okay. The rest of the path is just fine, I really like the balcony-like bridge you cross. The part where the paths meet is too gray, but that's a minor issue. Also, what is that Crawla Commander doing there? It's annoying as hell, and not really fun to dodge.

After the Star Post (which I worked HARD to get to), I come across a crusher sequence. Well, it's not bad, but it feels kinda dull and like it's there to be there. This is not 1.09.4 anymore. There are so much more possibilities now, gameplay-wise or visually, to make basic gimmicks appear much more interesting. I like how the safe spots get smaller and smaller though. And now, after the most pointless arrow in the world (where else CAN I go, huh?), we enter an underwater section. I like the mines, I like the decoration and I like the secret (although it's pure luck to actually hit a Crawla), but the pillar hopping is stupid. Again, this is not 1.09.4. You came make basic platforming much more interesting than just hopping across square pillars. Also, the second jump is really, really mean.

After a nice looking intermission room (the texturing changes just at the right moment to continue staying fresh), we get into a big flooded room with a closed door. The turret in here is stupid, because I can hardly see it and thus not dodge it. Apart from that, great room. I like rooms where you have several possibilities to cross it without there being a real "path split". I also like the broken waterslide that leads to the tree and how you have to hop across the gaps. The waterfall before it should probably be removed though, it obscures my sight. I also like a few other things about this room, but I can't mention all of them, for my own sanity and the length of this review.

The next real "room" is, again, over a death pit. That's cheap, especially because the descending logs are kinda hard and the player needs to be super-quick. Otherwise, I like the idea and the design of the room (but those arrows, you don't need them). The jump from the GHZ platform to the one next to the tree is a bit too high and looks like I can't make it. The platform inside the tree also ends you up facing the wrong direction, but that's how I first noticed the other big path. Speaking of that, we're finally through with one half of the level. I hope you're still reading.

The way to access the puzzle path is kind of confusing. I like the general idea of exploring a room to find the exit, but it wasn't always clear where to go. I suggest removing some sector-based details from the water pool to make the spring leading up easier to see and make it more apparent that the big tube is the exit. Also, I already talked about putting Crawlas on small pillars. I really don't like defeating an enemy just to fall down and do everything again. The teleport was also a bit choppy. I suggest making it even darker at the ends, so that the player doesn't notice how he stops dead after being teleported. But that's a minor cosmetic thing.

I have very little to criticize in what follows now. The mushrooms add a nice touch to the puzzles that this path is mostly about. The puzzles themselves are refreshingly unique, especially the two gargoyle gimmicks, and the platforms they are supposed to be pushed on are cleverly designed. Wasn't it also you who used a gargoyle as a stepping stone in one of your levels? You have a feel for good gimmicks. You also make sure to change up the pace and theme every now and then to make sure things don't get exhausting (something DSZ1's gargoyle path unfortunately suffers from).

The layout is very professional. Although there aren't many path splits, the player is forced to revisit already familiar sections to give the level a non-linear feel. The tree with the second gargoyle puzzle was especially nice, because of all the different things you managed to cram in there, and the way you forced the player through them one by one. The staircase back up was a bit lame, but I guess you didn't have much of a choice.

The Attraction Shield and the Force Shield are very clever "secrets". They're not really hard to find, but hard to get to and they require thinking. Most of the secrets you have in your level work that way, and that's great, but there are rather few secrets in here compared to the size of the level. You have only three Extra Lives in a level whose length is comparable to ERZ2 and that isn't very easy either. Around 10, or even more, would be a much more appropriate number. Don't hesitate to add a few hidden corners in your level just for that, even if that might appear boring in contrast to your more elaborate secrets. The number of shields wasn't as bad but also could have been a slight bit higher.

And now comes the glider part. Congratulations for actually using a custom SOC for a level, that should be done more often. There are some problems with that SOC that can't really be fixed currently, such as the bad controls when steering down or the fact that you can't jump back on them after falling off, but I'm not gonna criticize you for that. In the part that still belongs to the puzzle path, you made sure to add a failsafe in case the player falls off. However, there are some platforms that appear to trap the player with no escape. Again, this gimmick isn't used too well over a death pit, especially not if Jetty-syns can knock you down. I did like the secret ledge that's only accessible with the glider, although the reward could have been higher.

The final section is a lot of fun, even though you're screwed if you lose the glider. Try to add some kind of lower path here as well, and maybe include a reward for taking the glider. I also really like the look of the very last room and the nice use of the camera angle. A worthy conclusion for such an epic level. Another thing I'd like to comment on is your tendency to have pits of varying heights, especially in the final areas. It looks extremely awkward to have a pit that doesn't reach down as low as another pit. Maybe you've done it for performance reasons or to prevent glitches, but if you didn't, make all the connected pits have one height.

Two more minor things before I close this review: The music track doesn't loop correctly and making Tails flight shorter is kinda cheap. Yes, Tails has it easy, but there's no need to counter this. If somebody wants to get through your level the easy way, let him do it. It's his fault, because he's missing something. And now to summarize the points you should work on: Cut down the death pits in difficult sections, try to make the layout a bit clearer, add more secrets and don't be afraid to delve even further into the possibilities of 2.0, especially regarding visuals.

To answer the implied question you asked in the cutscene: You should definitely continue mapping, and I always felt that was out of question. This stage is a tremendous achievement, in fact so tremendous I feel bad about about giving you an 8. Still, there are some problems you must fix, so giving you a higher score would be unfair for reason I mentioned in the first paragraph. But the sole fact that this level didn't realize your full potential and hinted at so much more should be reason enough to continue. I'm gonna follow what BlueZero4 said here: If you have questions, doubts, anything about mapping, I and many others will be there. I did my very best to help you out.
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Old 01-02-2011   #54
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SpiritCrusher, one of the things I look forward to most in every OLDC is reading your reviews. It's at least as enjoyable as actually playing the levels, and often substantially more so.
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Old 01-02-2011   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawfulfan View Post
SpiritCrusher, one of the things I look forward to most in every OLDC is reading your reviews. It's at least as enjoyable as actually playing the levels, and often substantially more so.
Hey, I hope it is more enjoyable in the case of Flooded Mine and Icicle Warehouse ;) Anyway, thanks. I'm trying to do my best.
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Old 01-02-2011   #56
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So, things Thompson should do to make Twilight Isles get 1 more point for everyone:
More signs and less confusion.
Add the "blue thing on the floor that represents a spinball with a blue arrow pointing at the fountains" like he did on 2K6RE.
amitire?
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Old 01-02-2011   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaRawrBadly>.< View Post
More signs and less confusion.
More signs and I might give him a point less. More intuitive path design without spamming signs and I might give him one more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaRawrBadly>.< View Post
Add the "blue thing on the floor that represents a spinball with a blue arrow pointing at the fountains" like he did on 2K6RE.
Again, no. I hate it when the level tells the player what to do directly. What he could and probably should do is put a speed pad in front of the first fountain so that the player gets to know the mechanic.
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Old 01-02-2011   #58
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Thank you for the reviews everyone. :) I personally loved reading BZ4 and SpiritCrusher's. Sorry for starting drama. I wasn't really trying to start with the sadness and depression. I tried to keep it nondrama-ish with "hope this is enjoyable." at the end, but I guess it didn't work. :p I am canceling 2k6re though. I just couldn't stand how much I had to deal with for the modification, such as hard-coding, updating the exe, sprites, etc. Especially with few to help with the bidding. I also didn't have much spare time as much as I used to. With me doing marching season, social life, blah blah blah. So I just had to cancel...but i still wanted to do something apparently and thought if i did a simple completely original that no one has ever made, it would be more easier and one hobby I could do that wouldn't be so very complicated and boring.

I have no idea why I stayed with Sth360/srb2k6re/"another name for it" for so long. It was really boring to make, but what I guess what made it fun for me was me being original and what I had thinking would be very cool and releasing it to you guys. But nahh, it wasn't fun and I thought, "Screw this. I quit" which I said I think 6 months ago and left srb2 :p But yeah, before school was about to come to the winter break. I thought, "maybe if I do something original, mapping would probably be a little more fun"...since I don't have anything to do anyway. So my map, which brings us to this...

Twilight Isles Zone by me - N/A

Since I had some spare time for winter break, I decided to make this map, and like I said earlier "maybe if i do something original, mapping would be fun" I based it off a few things i really quite enjoyed a lot, like, i think a map called Maple Treeway from Mario Kart Wii, and people have kinda nailed the other ones... Super Mario Galaxy, Kirby and the Amazing mirror, (yeah I took the music and kind of recolored the sky from the game) And I brung all the ideas,... plus my thoughts together and made this. What BZ4 said was right. I really enjoyed making this. Before, I was making maps because I enjoyed praising and what not. Which really made fixing up problems hard. Trying to make everyone happy isn't possible which I understand now. Because you know "everybody's a critic." And don't take this the wrong way. When i make future maps, i won't just say that quote and not take constructive critism like a few users do around here. >.> It really is about the enjoyment of making maps. Which I'll always remember. :) Thanks BZ.

Flooded Mine Zone by Spongecar - 1/10

I disliked this...There were alot of flaws with this map, which almost everyone has listed already. I won't waste time repeating what everyone has said already. Please fix these issues. Learn from them.

Icicle Warehouse Zone by Glaber - 3/10


Uh, nothing I really have to say about this map. It was just boring to play. Not sure, but I think someone has said something about those random monitors in single player levels before, which was kind of a stupid idea anyway. The only thing nice I found about this level were the sector-based visuals and a few construstion sites and secrets. But that's about it.

Haven't tried the multiplayer maps yet, but i'll give those reviews later...
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Old 01-03-2011   #59
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The rating for Twilight Isles has been revised in my post on page one. it's now 5/10
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Old 01-03-2011   #60
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Here's my Single Player votes. Took me long enough, right? :P

Glaber's Icicle Warehouse Zone - 3/10
This is mostly just a hallway fest, and the broken (frozen?) conveyor belts were especially bad offenders. I see a bunch of Buzzes decided to massacre a bunch of Minuses and take their bodies, and some icy SRB1 buzz clones have come out of cold storage. Custom enemies are usually nice, but it's pointless if they are identical to default enemies. The racks with monitors were... interesting, if that's the right word. I kinda just randomly thokked through them and wound up with an Armageddon Shield. :P The unreachable black emerald hiding behind the window... it made me remember some other level that had an unreachable but visible black emerald behind bars. Probably one of your maps too. :P

Spongecar's Flooded Mine Zone - 2/10
The things that stand out about this level to me are monitor bouncing off the overturned mine cart at the beginning and the reverse gravity spike thing at the end. The former was a good moment, but the latter was a mixed reaction. I liked the creativity of making you walk around the spikes instead of jumping, as it goes against the obvious use of the hazard. However, there was no indication that you would die from jumping, and the gimmick felt out of place. The gargoyle puzzle lifted from Tortured Planet took me a few tries for me to get to work right. The rest of the map is nothing special, and it definitely has issues.

Thompson's Twilight Isles Zone - 6/10
This map's main and most present flaw is how confusing it is. There is a lack of general direction and bustable blocks need their own texture badly. The first spring of the puzzle path's first spring tends to send you just out of reach of the ledge and it took some odd thokking to get up there. The geyser room on the platform path is broken, and I almost docked a point for that but monitor bouncing can easily get you past that room so I didn't. Speaking of the geysers, that one room on the platform path where you needed to skip off of them was easily the worst room in the map, and I never even cleared one section of them due to the randomness of the water skip. Luckily the geyser platform before that room can send you to a high ledge where I just spindash jumped and skipped over that entire section. :P The puzzle path had some turrets I kept hear firing but never actually saw them. The glider section (Wild Glide Galaxy much? It even ends like it.) was something I always wanted to see, an actual use of the glider SOC. The falling rocks in the end were kind of cheap, at least until you know the blind spots.

Last edited by Katmint; 01-03-2011 at 03:09 AM.
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